What about me? Whose side am I on?

Quote from: TonyLBOh ... wait.  You're saying that you think I never played D&D?  That I'm trying to learn the game from the outside, without actual experience?

Man, that's ... I should tell my folks about that.  They'd get a laugh out of that, they sure would.

Yes, Tony does get all evangelical about indie games. Other than that he's a cool guy.

Yes, Tony has played D&D. Quite a bit. That was an actual typo. We all make mistakes.

A lot of the Forge guys play - as in currently play, not used to play - D&D and other trad games. Not all of them, not a majority, but quite a few. Tony comes across here as far less trad-enjoying than he really is, probably because of a reaction to the prevailing feel of the site, and because he feels a need to defend his buddies over at the Forge when they get jumped on here, which they do, and sometimes they deserve it. I don't mean to say he isn't a Forgista, he very definitely is, but he's not there from ignorance and naivete, and he's a good guy.

I try not to let my dislike of theory/dogma color my reactions to individual people.

-clash

Since something like 90% of all RPG players probly started with D&D of some sort, I doubt that we have an active member here that hasn't played D&D. So the whole idea of Tony not having any traditional RPG experience is just idiotic.

But the deal is this:

Anybody else gets a pass. Seriously. Any random joe can say what they like and I won't care. Lacking a clue is no problem in the general populace.

But Forgies are different. They portray themselves as 'experts', even in the realms they have no real knowledge of- and are often even accepted as such. This is a problem. This is one of the factors behind the brain damage thing.

So I'm sorry, I have to challenge this shit where I see it. With Tony I swear to god, I waited three fucking times.

#1) How to Run Dungeon Crawls.  Tony's advice? "Have the players sneak from room to room avoiding encounters."

I held my tongue!

#2) "You and your fireball just cost the party 50 hit points!"

Seriously who the fuck would say this? How does a fireball cost the party anything? What the hell?

#3) BEHOLD SWARM!

And I'm like FUCK! THATS IT.

Dudes, a couple of years ago, I ran into some jackass theorist peddling some nonsense about the problem of D&D is "eventually the players try to buy magic items and it unbalances the game". And I presented several points why that isn't so, that magic item buying is an important part of kitting out characters to remain current with encounter levels.

In short I was way more rational than I am today.

You know what the fucker told me? Until I had read Inspectres and Dogs in the Vineyard "I probably wouldn't understand what he was talking about."

Yeah.  

SO I say fuck all that. Seeing as how the swine spectrum goes from Spineless Coward all the way through Lying Motherfucker, I see no reason why I shouldn't confront this shit where I see it, even when it seems like relatively harmless stupidity.

well start up another thread if you want to rail against forge fans.

This thread is for the discussion of good rpg rules.

better yet, take to PMs if you want to argue with Tony.

Well I don't want to argue with Tony I want to castigate him publicly. Geez.

Quote from: Abyssal MawSo I'm sorry, I have to challenge this shit where I see it. With Tony I swear to god, I waited three fucking times.
#1) How to Run Dungeon Crawls.  Tony's advice? "Have the players sneak from room to room avoiding encounters."

I held my tongue!

What's wrong with that? It can be a blast to run it that way so long as everyone's up for it. I ran a dungeon crawl for a party of thieves once where they had to sneak through as much as they could or they were never going to make it. Nothing non-trad about that, just a little different play style.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw#2) "You and your fireball just cost the party 50 hit points!"

Seriously who the fuck would say this? How does a fireball cost the party anything? What the hell?

Huh? You never had a Mage screw up the blast area and range of a fireball? Happened all the time in my groups. At least once every campaign, one Mage would let fly with a fireball without thinking it out and toast half the party.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw#3) BEHOLD SWARM!

And I'm like FUCK! THATS IT.

A typo. I understood what he meant, and I'm sure you did too. I mean you typed "WEHAT" in your response and I knew you meant "WHAT." Rag on him when he gets all Forgey if you like, that's fair game, but a typo is just being human.

-clash

Abyssal, I love you.  But this time, I'm with Clash. Don't get me wrong, I understand your perspective.  I just think this time you let your anti-Forge dogs bark at the wrong time.

IMHO, FWIW, etc.

I would agree that sometimes it sounds like Tony is speaking D&D as a second language, but I'm not prepared to read anything further into it.

Now back on topic.  Here's an awesome rule: Range Bands in Classic Traveller and Starter Traveller.  Less realistic than full mapping, but a great way to do firefights in the abstract.

I really like:

Card based resolution as used on Marvel Saga, fast, simple, easily graspable with some built in choice for PC's.

Marvel Superheroes (Universal Chart/FaseRip) systems karma--controlling outcomes of play, shifting results, and of course the other rule: power stunts. Doing new things with old powers just like comic books.


Adventure's Inspiration, frankly while other games adopted the feel of MSH karma (drama points in Buffy, Action Points in D20 Modern, Conviction in True 20) --inspiration and its relative dramatic editing actually gave players more control of the game without TOO much destruction of "suspension of disbelief"

Quote from: jrientsHere's an awesome rule: Range Bands in Classic Traveller and Starter Traveller.  Less realistic than full mapping, but a great way to do firefights in the abstract.

For my online CT game, I've been running pretty straight LBB1-3 with a few minor changes.  I was thinking of using Snapshot or AHL for combat, but I didn't want to clutter up the game on our first time out using the system.  Back when we gamed face-to-face, we loved breaking out minis and drawing encounter maps on a 1" grid, getting flank and rear attacks, taking advantage of cover and high ground, etc.  The abstract combat system of CT had the potential to rob combat of all the tactical flavor we love.  I was really worried that range bands would limit us in tactical situations.  

I needn't have worried.  Range bands have worked wonderfully, especially given the medium we're using for communication (professional webconferencing site).  I'd even keep them for tabletop play because it keeps the game moving.

Another good rule from Classic Traveller: the damage system.  Simple as hit points, but applying damage directly to stats has interesting and varied effects on combatants.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Brownie Points from Ghostbusters.  Need a boost on your next roll?  Spend a Brownie Point and add a die.  Fell off a roof and don't wanna end up in the hospital?  Awp -- that'll cost ya some Brownie Points.  

They're Hit Points and Awesome Sauce in one!

By God you have good taste!

I'm trying to think of my own favorite, but I keep coming up with concepts (levels, hit points, classes, etc.) rather than a single rule. Maybe something from HackMaster like how one PC can steal Honor from another PC or NPC by insulting or bitch-slapping them.

Quote from: jrientsHere's an awesome rule: Range Bands in Classic Traveller and Starter Traveller.  Less realistic than full mapping, but a great way to do firefights in the abstract.

Is that similar to Babylon 5's vehicle combat? Each battle has a center and then you determine who is at the center, close, middle, or far in range. Relative ranges to each other are determined with that. If so I'll agree. If not I'll nominate B5's vehicular combat system (in it's entirety except for the armor rules) as a really sweet rule set.

Quote from: Abyssal MawInspectres

Is there really a game called that? If so, at least please tell me that's the British spelling of the word.

Quote from: James McMurrayIs there really a game called that? If so, at least please tell me that's the British spelling of the word.

Actually, 'tis spelled InSpectres...