Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 18, 2023, 02:10:39 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on November 18, 2023, 10:43:34 AM
What replacement system is your favorite?

For D&D, a compromise. I understand some of the newer editions have this already as a feature of specific spellcasters, but even back in the day we ran it like this-
You don't have to memorize specific spells. You just have to know them, and you can cast any known spell from the appropriate spell slot.
A caster can break up a spell slot. IE a 3rd level spell slot can be broken into three 1st level spells, or a 2nd and a 1st.
That generally worked for us.

You have to be careful in making spell slots tradeable like that because of spells that scale with level. A mid to high level magic user can really do some damage trading a level 4 spell slot for 4 1st level because of how magic missile scales.

Then don't put scaling spells in the game.

Quote from: Domina on November 29, 2023, 08:38:14 AM
Then don't put scaling spells in the game.

Well duh. We are talking about shoehorning a different spell resource system into older D&D games. Rewriting scaling spells would be a lot of work. Creating a new game it would be easier, but still a lot of work.

Wrong thread post.

Before I settled on the system I currently use, I played with a "magic charge" system.

The idea was that the PC would start combat with three spell points and gain one every round up to a maximum.  (I never settled on a maximum.)  Then spells would cost spell points and the more more powerful the effect, the more it cost.

Yes, I completely ripped this off of video games.  I tried it at the table a few time and it seemed to work pretty well, the down side is that it's one more thing to keep track of.

I really like dungeon crawl classics magic, but its a ton of work. The basics are easy roll d20+int bonus + level (usually) but every spell its is own chart and has a secondary effect generated when you learn the spell. You can cast the same spell all day, but you lose use of it when you fail and critical fails can lead to mutations or misfires.

Quote from: BadApple on November 29, 2023, 10:20:24 AM
Before I settled on the system I currently use, I played with a "magic charge" system.

The idea was that the PC would start combat with three spell points and gain one every round up to a maximum.  (I never settled on a maximum.)  Then spells would cost spell points and the more more powerful the effect, the more it cost.

Yes, I completely ripped this off of video games.  I tried it at the table a few time and it seemed to work pretty well, the down side is that it's one more thing to keep track of.

One wargame i play, Age of Fantasy/Grimdark Future recently changed magic to work similarly, only you have to roll a 4+ on a d6 after spending the points to cast, but you can also spend extra points to add +1 to the d6 roll.

Quote from: Slambo on November 29, 2023, 10:23:45 AM
I really like dungeon crawl classics magic, but its a ton of work. The basics are easy roll d20+int bonus + level (usually) but every spell its is own chart and has a secondary effect generated when you learn the spell. You can cast the same spell all day, but you lose use of it when you fail and critical fails can lead to mutations or misfires.

DCC magic is certainly on the wild & wacky unpredictible end of the spectrum. It certainly reinforces the concept that magic is dangerous and attempting to control it is a very risky proposition indeed. I think there is room for some of that risk in a slightly less wacko system.

Quote from: Slambo on November 29, 2023, 10:23:45 AM
... dungeon crawl classics magic, but its a ton of work.

It went fast and smooth for a group I played in, but everybody had all their own spell tables printed out underneath their character sheets.

If you're looking things up in the book every time things do grind to a halt.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on November 28, 2023, 03:13:31 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 18, 2023, 02:10:39 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on November 18, 2023, 10:43:34 AM
What replacement system is your favorite?

For D&D, a compromise. I understand some of the newer editions have this already as a feature of specific spellcasters, but even back in the day we ran it like this-
You don't have to memorize specific spells. You just have to know them, and you can cast any known spell from the appropriate spell slot.
A caster can break up a spell slot. IE a 3rd level spell slot can be broken into three 1st level spells, or a 2nd and a 1st.
That generally worked for us.

You have to be careful in making spell slots tradeable like that because of spells that scale with level. A mid to high level magic user can really do some damage trading a level 4 spell slot for 4 1st level because of how magic missile scales.

Yes, and fireball is even worse.

I wrote an alternate system for that, but if someone wants a quick fix, you always cast existing spells as if your level is twice the spell level, minus one.

IF you want to "upcast", you need to use a higher level "spell slot": for example, using a fourth level spell allows you to cast MM as if you were level 7.

Still doesn't fix powerful 1st level spell such as charm, sleep, etc., but works well for fireball, lighting bolt, MM, etc.

Oh well, I really wish spells were balanced (and measured by some other word than "level").

I am playing in a campaign using the GMs homebrew set of rules based upon Microlite20, but the magic is very different. The game involves an intensive problem of resources including food and water and weapons creation and maintenance. Magic is based upon actions that require a certain number and mix of 'magic points' (that is not what it is called but...) based upon the 4 Elements which are replenished only after a long rest and a full meal with food and water. You don't get much of the 'magic points' and replenishing the 'magic points' can take time and luck. Once your 'magic points' are exhausted you don't have any more magic.

Becoming a magic user requires a sort of ritual with components. Learning magic is a matter of understanding the formula for the magic which can be acquired by being taught, observed in action, etc.

An interesting and fun system which makes things a bit frustrating in action... which is the entire point.

Quote from: Dave 2 on November 29, 2023, 11:29:37 AM

Quote from: Slambo on November 29, 2023, 10:23:45 AM
... dungeon crawl classics magic, but its a ton of work.

It went fast and smooth for a group I played in, but everybody had all their own spell tables printed out underneath their character sheets.

If you're looking things up in the book every time things do grind to a halt.

To clarify a bit, i mean its a ton of work to make spells for the system since each one is so in bepth, i always print out spell books when i play and it helps a lot.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on November 29, 2023, 12:11:21 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on November 28, 2023, 03:13:31 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 18, 2023, 02:10:39 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on November 18, 2023, 10:43:34 AM
What replacement system is your favorite?

For D&D, a compromise. I understand some of the newer editions have this already as a feature of specific spellcasters, but even back in the day we ran it like this-
You don't have to memorize specific spells. You just have to know them, and you can cast any known spell from the appropriate spell slot.
A caster can break up a spell slot. IE a 3rd level spell slot can be broken into three 1st level spells, or a 2nd and a 1st.
That generally worked for us.

You have to be careful in making spell slots tradeable like that because of spells that scale with level. A mid to high level magic user can really do some damage trading a level 4 spell slot for 4 1st level because of how magic missile scales.

Yes, and fireball is even worse.

I wrote an alternate system for that, but if someone wants a quick fix, you always cast existing spells as if your level is twice the spell level, minus one.

IF you want to "upcast", you need to use a higher level "spell slot": for example, using a fourth level spell allows you to cast MM as if you were level 7.

Still doesn't fix powerful 1st level spell such as charm, sleep, etc., but works well for fireball, lighting bolt, MM, etc.

Oh well, I really wish spells were balanced (and measured by some other word than "level").

If defenses actually kept pace with magic, and if everyone had equal access to those defenses, this wouldn't be a problem.

Charm Person is only broken because some classes simply don't have the option of heavily investing in Willpower without gimping themselves. Because class based systems are shit.

That's precisely reason they are not shit, because you cannot have everything but you need to choose what's gonna be cool, and what's gonna be gimp, without some tween power fantasy.

Quote from: Domina on November 29, 2023, 11:18:11 PM
Charm Person is only broken because some classes simply don't have the option of heavily investing in Willpower without gimping themselves. Because class based systems are shit.

Huh, so your solution would seek to make every character equally vulnerable or resistant to everything I guess? You and I have a very different definition of "shit".