Quote from: 3rik;807511Haha, it's all so concise that quoting any of it may already be giving away too much. The whole thing takes up about one page. You'd have to ask Brett.

Does he post here?...Brett...calling Brett.

Quote from: NinjaWeasel;807506Whichever games you pick up it is also worth getting GURPS Mysteries. There's some great advice in that book.

Second that, that book is great for any game that's going to features investigations... lots of ideas and suggestions.

Call of Cthulhu does it well.

I have heard that Top Secret can.

Dragon had at least one murder mystery module. I am pretty sure some of the Dungeon modules did too.

Albedo can, though most players seem to focus on the war side. Same for Shadowrun. Theres great potential there for all sorts of investigative play. Same can probably be said for Ravenloft. The potential is there mostly untapped.

Quote from: Simlasa;807494I've seen plenty of investigations run in D&D as well... I've never thought the rules worked against it, though they do make for a very different sort of mystery given the presence of spells like 'detect magic', 'sense motive'... anything that lets you speak with the dead.
If anything is inhibiting investigations it's Player expectations and attitudes... thinking they can fight their way through any problem. If that's how they want to play then there's no point in throwing drawing room puzzles at them.

Something like Gumshoe fails for me by creating a metagame economy that I do not want in the interest of 'fixing' rules issues that never existed.
ToC is a good sourcebook for CoC though.

Yeah I have run D&D investigations myself, you can get round all the magic stuff just by thinking like a criminal who is aware of all that stuff

But as you say the players have other expectations and they have those because so much of the game is devoted to combat so why wouldn't they.

I agree with 3ric about Mean Streets and Ghostories. I like BRP as well, because of it's clear rules and it's combination of investigation and horror. I like conspiracies and the paranormal as well so I like Delta Green a lot. You could run a good investigation in the nWoD, but I think Cthulhu and Ghostories are more geared towards being an investigator and they have more mental skills that involve knowledge of artifacts or dead languages. I also find them more practical in writing style.

I like to give a heads up to Deadlands Noir. Very practical and flavorful. The mystery generator is very handy and the city layout of New Orleans is very clear. Great city map and some good combat maps as well.

Quote from: Bren;807517Does he post here?...Brett...calling Brett.

I believe he's even one of the mods. Perhaps sending him a PM would be more effective.

Quote from: 3rik;807619I believe he's even one of the mods. Perhaps sending him a PM would be more effective.

Is he brettmb listed as Administrator?

You rang? I didn't quite catch the question.

Quote from: brettmb;807629You rang? I didn't quite catch the question.

Hi, thanks for popping in.

Here is the context and background: 3rik mentioned that they liked "the directions on investigation and research in Precis Intermedia's Mean Streets RPG[/QUOTE]" that the directions provided "[c]ommon-sense and concise practical advice on handling different categories of clues: overt clues, hidden clues, cryptic clues, forensic clues, serendipitous clues and random clues." 3rik also mentioned that the same section could be found in Ghostories.


What I was Looking for: Any additional information you felt comfortable sharing. 3rik said that the section in the rules was not too long and they were reluctant to quote in detail. If there are mechanical aspects to how mysteries are handled, how easy it would be to port those aspects over to other systems.

It really is just common sense advice, simply broken down into different classifications...

Overt clues are in plain sight - these are letters sitting on a desk or blood stains on a jacket. Decide on a general level of competence needed to discover these - if a character has that level, success.

Hidden clues require a search - these require a task when searching in a particular location; adjust difficulty accordingly.

Cryptic clues are not only hidden from sight, but so are their meanings - a hidden piece of paper that also holds a code written as prose. Not only must the clue be found, but it must also be deciphered with an appropriate task and research.

Forensic clues rely on specialized training and laboratory time. This is time-consuming.

Serendipitous clues fall into the characters' laps - dripping blood from above or tripping over a dead body. These are plot devices used to steer characters a certain way, typically when investigations have not gone well.

Random clues - randomly determine who, what, where, etc.

That's pretty much it.

Quote from: brettmb;807637It really is just common sense advice, simply broken down into different classifications...

Cool. :cool: Thanks!

I like the classifications. They provide a method of analyzing what is required to solve the mystery. Also listing clues in order is a nice way of summarizing the clues available in a scene or at a location. Sometimes as the GM I forget one of my own clues. So a checklist or summary is helpful for me. Even more helpful in published material.

What do you see as the major selling points or attractions to Mean Streets or Ghostories?

Quote from: brettmb;807637It really is just common sense advice, simply broken down into different classifications...

How would you classify clues that come from talking to people, friendly or otherwise? Not exactly hidden but you have to know who to ask and what to ask.
The Raymond Chandler/Dashiell Hammett/Mickey Spillane stories I've read seem to favor clues coming through conversation and interrogation... which is something I'd be likely to roleplay rather than roll dice for.

Quote from: Simlasa;807657which is something I'd be likely to roleplay rather than roll dice for.

You just said it - use roleplaying, but I would also throw in some tasks to put pieces of the puzzle together (using instinct, observation, or even research). A tongue can also slip - this would be a serendipitous clue.

Quote from: Bren;807642What do you see as the major selling points or attractions to Mean Streets or Ghostories?

Mean Streets is Noir Roleplaying - it features using contacts, investigations, your wits, and a little violence to navigate the seedy streets, corrupt politicians, overzealous police, and organized crime. Three adventures are included in the expanded version.

Ghostories does the same for paranormal investigations, portraying either innocents (regular people) or the tainted (those with supernatural abilities). Characters follow a pursuit (there is an innocent and tainted version of each)  - for example, faith can lead to the divine arts, empathy can lead to a sixth sense, or science can lead to binding spirits. Then there are different types of tainted entities, from ghosts and embodied spirits to ghouls and werewolves. A number of ready-to-run scenarios are included.

The expanded versions are recommended for maximum value.

Deadlands Noir does something similar. It divides clues in three categories: physical clues (blood, fingerprints), testimonial clues (witnesses) and documentary clues (documents). I like Precis btw. Very concise and practical.

Gumshoe let's you find clues automatically? No rolling for clue searching?