So what's the best computer program to make your own RPG maps? Ideally, one that doesn't actually cost money...
RPGPundit
[threadcrap]
Whatever free scanning software comes with your scanner. Hand-drawn maps are still king.
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Honestly, besides Hexmapper, I've never gotten good enough with any mapping software to make a map that looks better than my hand-drawn ones.
Woof, a tough order there.
If you're willing to go the Bit-torrent route, it's all free-but assuming you're much more honest than that, and me (Before I paid Dundjinni) there are a lot of equally, and in my opinion mediocre, options:
First a list (http://www.rpggateway.com/Software/Map_Generators/) from this site, which seems to cover several of the pay programs.
The Decent
Dungeons Unlimited (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/dungeonsunlimited/)-free maps made in Dundjini, I know not perfect-but hey it's free!
The Random Dungeon generator (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/dungeon.cgi)-ugly, but free.
Dungeon Mapper (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8306/utilities.html#dungeonmapper)
Gozzy's Random Dungeon Generator (http://www.gozzys.com/article.php?cm_id=8)-like the one above, only apparently Gozzy made it.
The Ugly
Map Maker (http://www.mapmaker.com/download.asp)-technically free for thirty days, then it asks for the cash.
Tavern Maker (http://www.rpggateway.com/cgi-bin/wyrm/jump.cgi?ID=6823)-it makes just that, Taverns.
RPG Assistant (http://www.rpgweb.com/downloads.htm) I couldn't make this one work, but I hear it's okay.
I never tried this one (http://www.heroicadventure.com/dev/dm/)
As you can see I checked a few things out before buying Dundjinni, and these are just the ones I remembered to bookmark.
And while I agree with the demonic doggie, I have to say some of my best maps came from Microsoft paint.
http://www.inkscape.org/
plus
http://www.gimp.org/
I use CorelDRAW to draw my maps. Inkscape has nearly all the tools I use. Plus it has advantages of how it handles alpha fills (transparent colors).
Gimp is more difficult than Photoshop but just as powerful and it is free. With those two you are able to do any type of map.
Dedicated fantasy mapping programs trade ease of use for flexibility.
The biggest secret to using a vector drawing package is layering. Organizing your maps into effective layers makes the job a heck of lot easer. The map I posted has the following layers from top to bottom
Key
Settlement
Road
Terrain
Hex Numbers
Hexes
Vegetation
The tool you will be using the most in Inkscape is the Bezier draw tool. It goes like this
Click
Click and pull
Click and pull
Click and pull
....
If you want to close up the path then you click on the first point you created to close it. Afterwards you can fill it.
The Click and pull curves the line and allow you to draw the intricate coastlines and the twisting roads.
Enjoy
Rob Conley
AutoREALM is the best I've found. I'd go so far as to say it's better than any of the commercial mapmakers I've tried.
My only annoyance with it at the moment is just that it lacks one single feature: numbered hex grids. Otherwise, it's all good.
I really like Hexmapper, but aside from that, for me, its usually MS Paint or freehand. the only other map program I've really grokked was Fractal Mapper, which was totally worth it, cost-wise for me (that's what I did my last big homebrew map (http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/zacharythefirst/PosterMapIrrinjpeg.jpg) on), but that's a pay program. So, basically, I'm of no damned use.
Something like this...Photoshop and a WACOM tablet
(http://www.hinterwelt.com/chevalier/Chevaliermap.gif)
This...Fractal Terrain Pro and PS...
(http://neb.hinterwelt.com/images/GCNeb/kierantclean.jpg)
And this would be CC3 and PS....
(http://neb.hinterwelt.com/images/TERN/kespos-political.gif)
Bill
I have no idea what any of those things are, Bill.. care to explain the terms you're using?
That goes for everyone else, as well.
BTW, I'm thinking more for terrain maps, though dungeon maps are certainly a plus, too.
RPGPundit
AutoREALM: http://autorealm.sourceforge.net/index.php
Inkscape and gimp are very cool.
Trouble I have with Inkscape though is multiple pages. I want to draw a large map that prints on multiple pages of output. If someone groked that I'd be grateful if they shared.
I use Dia quite a lot. but it doesn't support printing of the grid or hex, nor can it fill with it. And using a font hex or grid is craps with Dia because it assumes you want a double spaced text field.... I've been looking at Dia source to add a fill to objects that can have hexes or grids in them.
Eventually I ended up using AutoRealm... which is a little flakey. I mean I have never lost any drawings in AutoRealm, it just seems to be the hard way to draw. Oh, it currently is windows only.
Quote from: RPGPunditI have no idea what any of those things are, Bill.. care to explain the terms you're using?
That goes for everyone else, as well.
BTW, I'm thinking more for terrain maps, though dungeon maps are certainly a plus, too.
RPGPundit
Adobe Photoshop is a graphic design package put out by Adobe. It is expensive but does everything and then some. It is not a mapping program so much as a way to manipulate maps. Runs about $650 new but you can get an older version off e-bay for much less.
Campaign Cartographer 2 or 3 is a modified CAD program set up to do dungeons, city maps, overland maps and the like. It has a formidable learning curve and requires a sizable investment in time and money. The neat thing is you can buy what you need and ignore the rest. I have the full package and have been using it for years. CC3 is 44.95 with the add ons running about 39.95.
Fractal Terrains Pro is a fractal world generator useful (imo) for sci-fi campaigns or if you will be making a lot of worlds. it runs about 39.95 from Profantasy also.
Bill
Quote from: estarI use CorelDRAW to draw my maps. Inkscape has nearly all the tools I use. Plus it has advantages of how it handles alpha fills (transparent colors).
The biggest secret to using a vector drawing package is layering. Organizing your maps into effective layers makes the job a heck of lot easer. The map I posted has the following layers from top to bottom
Key
Settlement
Road
Terrain
Hex Numbers
Hexes
Vegetation
....
We use CorelDraw, as well, with basically the same layering pattern. One key is to make a huge amount of template items and place them around on the outside of the actual map space. Copy, size, twist, pick two and meld them, you get a lot of variety from just a few basics.
Of course, it does cost money.
Quote from: ReimdallWe use CorelDraw, as well, with basically the same layering pattern. One key is to make a huge amount of template items and place them around on the outside of the actual map space. Copy, size, twist, pick two and meld them, you get a lot of variety from just a few basics.
Of course, it does cost money.
I use symbols myself for 22" x 17' maps the sheer number requires me keep memory space down.
Pundy, what you're looking for doesn't exist. I know because I'm looking for it all the time.
Gimp et al. is for people who are willing to invest a LOT of time into learning the ropes of the program. Do you want just to drive the car, or tune up the engine? If the latter, get Gimp.
CC3 is far too expensive, its CAD origin makes it totally unintuitive for regular users (every button does the opposite of what you think it does), and the results look extremely mediocre... unless, see above, you're willing to spend hours and hours exploring its potential by trial & error, reading manuals and mapping forums, surfing the web, whatever.
AutoRealm looks like ass.
In a way, HexMapper is by far the best of the lot. It's a primitive hex-by-hex program that's best for large-scale overland maps a la that huge Greyhawk map back in the day. Old-schoolesque visuals, any given map will take you like 15 minutes or less.
Quote from: RPGPunditI have no idea what any of those things are, Bill.. care to explain the terms you're using?
That goes for everyone else, as well.
BTW, I'm thinking more for terrain maps, though dungeon maps are certainly a plus, too.
RPGPundit
Adobe Photoshop - This is program like Microsoft Paint only on steroids, many many steroids. The general purpose of photoshop is to manipulate the pixels of a bitmap graphics. There are many ways of slicing, merging, and copying pixels and Photoshop has a ton of them.
A WACOM Table is a slab ranging from about 2" by 3", 5" by 7" to larger sizes. Attached to the slab via wireless or wire is a pen. Many pens are pressure sensitive. The tablet is embedded with many fine wires. This has the effect of making the absolute position of the pen known to the computer. If you pick up a mouse and put it 3" to the right. The computer cursor will not move. This is not the case with a WACOM style tablet
This combination is attached to a computer and used by artists to draw much like the pen and paper. Another advantage is that different mediums (oil, watercolor, etc) can be simulated by the software using the tablet.
Fractal Terrain Pro by Profantasy
It is a program that allows generation of worlds. It is simple to use as a tool. The only thing complicated is understanding the parameters used to create a world. The worlds are created essentially by using algorithms that generate random noise like static on a tv. It was found when combined several of these algorithms generate something that looks like a map of a planet. Pick a level to fill up to water then you have a map of a earth like world. Again this program is very simple to use.
Photoshop was combined with Fractal Terrain Pro by exporting the globe map as a graphic. This in turn was imported into Photoshop and layered on top of other graphics and effects were applied using the tools in PS.
CC3 is Campaign Cartographer 3
CC3 is a CAD program a specialized version of a program known as FastCAD. CAD program use what is called vector to represent drawing. Inkscape is another vector drawing program. Instead of treating a graphic as a bitmap made up of pixels, vectors graphics work with entities; lines, circles, rectangles, etc. Only the information requiring the drawing of the vector is stored. The start point, end point of a Line. The center and radius of a circle. So on. For very large maps this makes vector drawing files very compact compared to their bitmap equivalent.
However bitmap program like photoshop can do certain effects much easier than vector drawing. Especially when it comes to working with photographs. However in recent years programs, like CC3, have started incorporating features of programs like PS into their software. They do this by allowing special layers where these effects can be applied to the vector objects.
CC3 has a steep learning curve. You can get going with it very quickly but once you try to go beyond the simple stuff then there is a lot to learn. The advantage of mastering a program like CC3 is that you can truly make maps very quickly and very precisely. You get a maps that can be printed large or small and not lose detail like a bitmap.
For an old CAD guy like me CC3 was very easy to learn. However 95% of the computing population have never worked with CAD programs. It isn't CAD program are so difficult. It that they are so unlike other programs you use. Also coupled with the fact that CAD program are not built to get a new user going quickly but rather to make a skilled user work very quickly. This is because you only need to learn it once but afterwards you have work to do.
Again like FTP, the CC3 map was exported into a bitmap graphics and then manipulated by Photoshop's tool.
Hope this helps
Rob Conley
Quote from: Pierce InverarityPundy, what you're looking for doesn't exist. I know because I'm looking for it all the time.
CC3 is far too expensive, its CAD origin makes it totally unintuitive for regular users (every button does the opposite of what you think it does), and the results look extremely mediocre... unless, see above, you're willing to spend hours and hours exploring its potential by trial & error, reading manuals and mapping forums, surfing the web, whatever.
CAD programs, Inkscape, and other vector based drawing programs have years of development behind them. The market for these programs is very competitive (I know because it is my day-job) so programmers aren't just making crap up but relying on the input of thousand of users.
The results are programs that are incredibly powerful and efficient to the experienced user but a bitch to learn for a new user. This combined with the fact it a specialized vertical market program (compared to MS Word) make unintuitive to the average computer user.
Hexmapper or another map stamp program (where you create maps by stamping tools) are the way to go for a causal user. But if you want to create professional looking maps then the best way to go all out and use a full blown program like Inkscape, Gimp, CC3, CorelDRAW, or Photoshop. The intermediate tools all suck on one level or another. I tried and they don't work for the time invested. If you want free then Inkscape and Gimp are the way to go.
CC3 cost $30 and can be downloaded directly after purchase. CorelDRAW and Photoshop are considerably more expensive.
If you want "Old Skool" style hex maps, AKS Hexmapper and Wilderness Mapper fit the bill.
If you want to put together maps using squares instead of hexes, one of the versions of Dungeon Crafter works great.
The upside of these is that most anyone can slap together an acceptable looking map in no time. The downside is that they are not "State of the Art" graphics wise.
So if you have time and skill, use something else. If you need maps and don't have time or skill, these may be just the thing.
(They are what I use. FWTW I even have made a handfull of Sci-Fi tile sets for DC II. Which is handy to be able to do. )
=
Dungeon Crafter (http://www.dungeoncrafter3.com/) has always been my goto map tool. I haven't used version 3 yet, but if it just adds onto what 1 and 2 did it's good. It's a "stamp" program like estar was talking about, but there are hundreds of free user-made tile sets* out there, so it's pretty easy to find whatever you're needing, or at least a close facsimile.
Also, despite being called Dungeon Crafter, it is perfectly usable for outdoor maps and buildings. The last time I went looking for tile sets I found more outdoor ones than dungeons.
* A tile set is a collection of "stamps" or "tiles" you use to build the maps. A set of tiles means that you've got a bunch of them that use the same drawing style and color scheme, so they merge seemlesly when combined into a single map.
AutoRealm is free and fairly easy* to use, and with a little bit of practice you can make decent looking maps. There is also a fairly large user/support base with its own yahoo forums.
*Easy is a relative term since I have experience with much more difficult (pain in the ass) drafting and mapping programs.
Quote from: estarCAD programs, Inkscape, and other vector based drawing programs have years of development behind them. The market for these programs is very competitive (I know because it is my day-job) so programmers aren't just making crap up but relying on the input of thousand of users.
Really? Allow me to say that the average user must be light years ahead of me, and have some CAD experience because Autorealm, Campaign Cartographer are painfully difficult for me to use.
If they want to attract idiots like me, who just want to make a cool map for their games they really need to simplify shit.
I did this with hexmapper. it works for me. I don't have great map making skills but this works just to get the point across. It's on my Blog (http://evildm.blogspot.com/). it's posted on tuesday.
quick, easy, and Free!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/boojiesdad/broadswordmap.jpg)
Love it!!!!
Quote from: J ArcaneAutoREALM is the best I've found. I'd go so far as to say it's better than any of the commercial mapmakers I've tried.
Quote. Auorealm does the trick very well.
Hexmapper you say? Jesus, that's perfect!
What do people here think of Campaign Cartographer? I know its not free, but it is one of the only map softwares I'd ever heard of by name before this thread, so I thought I'd ask.
RPGPundit
Hmm.. hexmapper doesn't seem to work for me. I tried unzipping it and running it and I got some kind of error message.
RPGPundit
Wonderful stuff, Evil DM!
About Dungeoncrafter: last time I checked, it could do "encounter level" maps only, i.e. anything from a small room to a small village (using outdoor tiles). But it couldn't do the kind of large-scale regional map EDM just posted.
Also, Dungeonforge. IMHO this one beats Dungeoncrafter hands down, because it can do .png files--meaning you can use thousands of free user-created Dundjinni tiles and objects.
There used to be a website that hosted a crapload of those... gmparlor.com, or gmsparlor.com, I forget. You needed to join, but there were no strings or spam attached. I finally stopped DLing only because I was overwhelmed. :D
Quote from: RPGPunditHexmapper you say? Jesus, that's perfect!
What do people here think of Campaign Cartographer? I know its not free, but it is one of the only map softwares I'd ever heard of by name before this thread, so I thought I'd ask.
RPGPundit
THe only think I liked about CC was that it could draw numbered hex grids.
Ultimately though, I thought it sucked. It was a completely non-intuitive, from the weird template and scaling systems, to the simple fact that most of the buttons were so small you couldn't really figure out what they did.
Quote from: RPGPunditSo what's the best computer program to make your own RPG maps? Ideally, one that doesn't actually cost money...
RPGPundit
Well, mine is not free because it is not available to the general public, but since I have one I thought I'd pipe up about it and see if there's any response.
I programmed a Hex/Grid map application that not only allows for creating maps, but runs actual games on the map itself by dragging icons around, calculating combat, and so on. The application also is a character generator, and general GM Toolbox with whatever features I needed to run my world. I finished it up functionally in 2006, but went on to another project at that time and so have not released this software yet. I'm working towards that.
The maps don't quite look all *That* beautiful, but that can be fixed by adding tiles instead of color coding the grids. Note, though, that with mine there is an actual terrain feature that is used by the system to calculate movement for groups and individual characters (depending on what scale map you are using). So far I have not seen anything much like what I have out there.
Here's a little proto-blurb about the program with a link to screenshots.
Elthos GM Toolbox Proto-Blurb (http://www.elthos.com/Elthos_GMToolbox.htm)
I hope you all think this at least looks promising. If there is enthusiastic response then I may be able to use that to advance the project forward and get this released sooner rather than later.
(http://www.elthos.com/Elthos_Prime/TestHexMatrixScreen025.jpg)
It's only for dungeons but I've found Interactive Dungeon to be easy to use. It gives you a sheet of electronic graph paper where you can draw lines and use a moderate sized set of icons/stamps for doors and room items, plus you can color the squares. The benefit is you can run the map on a laptop at the game table and eliminate mapping. It starts with most of the map blacked out and exposes sections as you move the viewpoint. It takes into account strength of light source and has popup text boxes for traps and encounters.
http://www.geocities.com/trainz_ca/ID/
Hexmapper is great for the old school campaign map, very quick and easy.
How difficult in dunjinni to use? I've tried Autorealm and it was ok but took too long and looked crappy - graphics programs aren't my thing. I want simple and quick without looking like a preschool drawing.
Campaign Cartographer 3 (CC3) is a powerful program that makes really nice maps, but the learning curve is rather steep and I do not like how layers have been implemented. Also the dungeon designer module which is necessary to create dungeon maps, costs nearly as much as the main program.
Quote from: RPGPunditHexmapper you say? Jesus, that's perfect!
What do people here think of Campaign Cartographer? I know its not free, but it is one of the only map softwares I'd ever heard of by name before this thread, so I thought I'd ask.
RPGPundit
Quote from: VBWyrdeWell, mine is not free because it is not available to the general public, but since I have one I thought I'd pipe up about it and see if there's any response.
Is that a grid of a Star Fleet Battles game? It looks like a fleet free-for-all. :)
Quote from: RPGPunditWhat do people here think of Campaign Cartographer? I know its not free, but it is one of the only map softwares I'd ever heard of by name before this thread, so I thought I'd ask.
I've played around with a friend's copy and thought it was crap. I want to make a map, and the learning curve on that thing made it feel like it was going to be a looong time before I knew how to produce something useful.
Re: Hex Mapper not working, did you also download the VB runtime files it needs to run? They're at the bottom of this page (http://home.paonline.com/zaikoski/ak/TOOLS.HTM#hexmapper).
I was wondering about CC myself - not sure how much use I'd get from it, but then I think I could have plenty of fun just making maps up to be honest.
I don't care for any of the commercial mapping programs. At this stage, I do all my map drawing with Photoshop. Cheaper alternatives include Paintshop or the freeware GIMP.
If you look around the internet at sites like RPGMapshare and the Dundjinni forums, you can find lots of free artwork.
Using Photoshop/Gimp, you can sketch up your dungeon or tavern and then use the downloaded artwork to add furniture and stuff.
I haven't done much overland mapping, but the above combinations work great for dungeons, caverns, buildings and such. With a minimal amount of work you can even make dungeon tiles to print out and use at the table.
Quote from: James McMurrayIs that a grid of a Star Fleet Battles game? It looks like a fleet free-for-all. :)
Since a picture is worth a thousand words...
(http://www.elthos.com/Elthos_Prime/TestHexMatrixScreen025_E.jpg)
So no, it's not in this case a star fleet free for all, though it could easily be one. It would work just as well for that as it does for Character Melee. In the case of space war the GM would have to add elements to the system for Star Ships and space terrain, but it could be done. I think the setup would take an hour or two. If you then add planetary systems and other space elements to the map at Galactic Scale you could GM star fleets duking it out. I've done a couple of things along those lines so far with it (Energy Ray Gun) and it's worked for me.
In this case, however, the Map is a local area showing six Adventure Groups in various positions around a ruined building. The light gray hexes are 3 foot high walls, the darker hexes are walls still standing. The lines with the little circles show the movement of each character that has moved (you can turn that view on and off). While it isn't entirely "pretty" (yet) these maps are packing a lot of functionality in them. The basic purpose of the system, btw, is to help the GM run their game. Players probably don't often see the screen, which is one reason why it is not "beautified". I don't want my players trying to crowd around my PC while I'm GMing so that they can see the cool graphics. That's not the point of this application. It is a GM's Toolbox, designed to be useful to me as GM. Though, of course, I made the application so it can print the maps, even in combat so I can always print out the current state of things, gray out areas for "fog of war", and hand that to the players. ... thoughts/opinions?
Quote from: RockViperCampaign Cartographer 3 (CC3) is a powerful program that makes really nice maps, but the learning curve is rather steep and I do not like how layers have been implemented. Also the dungeon designer module which is necessary to create dungeon maps, costs nearly as much as the main program.
Remember they have sheets now which work more like layers in Corel or photoshop than the CAD style layers they had in CC2. I.e. the first sheet is top most in drawing and the bottom sheet is the bottommost in drawing.
How come nobody is mentioning dundjinni?
http://www.dundjinni.com/
I know for me it is their stupid ass non-commerical license that turns me off but it produces really gorgeous maps.
Quote from: estarHow come nobody is mentioning dundjinni?
http://www.dundjinni.com/
I know for me it is their stupid ass non-commerical license that turns me off but it produces really gorgeous maps.
Well, that and the fact that it only runs on an outdated version of Java. It will not install and run on current versions.
Quote from: GoOrangeWell, that and the fact that it only runs on an outdated version of Java. It will not install and run on current versions.
I honestly did not know that. Which shows how long it has been sitting unused on my computer.
I'm partial to Adobe Illustrator -- it's similar to PhotoShop, but lets you easily resize and edit the individual shapes in the picture, rather than just paint with pixels. The Gnome (to the left) was done in Illustrator with the touch-pad on my laptop(!) but you can use a normal mouse or even a WACOM tablet for better results. ;)
In the defense of CC3 This shows some of the capabilities of the software
http://sub.profantasy.com/2007/
But I admit is got one helluva of a learning curve.
I use Dundjinni pretty regularly now, as I stated above. I have had mixed, but over all good results. CC, AR all require too much CAD experience, aren't intuitive at all, and generally suck ball sack if you don't have a lot of time to devote to them. You may as well just get photo shop and learn to use it.
If you're going to pay for it Dundjinni gives a shit ton of free support, and has people who just sit around their forums making more stuff for you to use. I use it for my Star Wars game, my D&D game, and my Shadowrun game.
What exactly is the non-commercial license for dunjinni?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditWhat exactly is the non-commercial license for dunjinni?
RPGPundit
Ok... But could someone clue me in please? I would have thought at least a couple of ... "that looks interesting"s were in order at this point. Thanks.
re: http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135255&postcount=29
Quote from: RPGPunditWhat exactly is the non-commercial license for dunjinni?
RPGPundit
2. License
Subject to the other requirements of this EULA (including but not limited to the Credit requirements of Section 8, as applicable), you are permitted to:
...
(d) use the Software Product to create and publish maps and adventures strictly for non-commercial purposes; this shall include the right to import artwork or graphics into the Software Product, export the output of the Software Product into one of the formats permitted by the Software Product's export functionality, create and print out maps and adventures, as well as post or otherwise make such maps and adventures available for free download. For purposes of this EULA, "non-commercial purposes" shall be defined as any use of the Software Product or its map or adventure output which does not yield any commercial benefit or compensation of any kind or nature,including but not limited to indirect forms of benefit and compensation, such as the promotion or other encouragement of the purchase or use of any product, service, game, or system from which you or anyone affiliated with you derives any financial gain; provided that the following shall be deemed a non-commercial purpose: (i) use of the map or adventure printed output in a tournament or convention gaming setting provided that the fee charged for participation in such game is nominal and designed to offset the costs of conducting the event, (ii) submission of printed or digital map or adventure output to a publisher, magazine, website, or other media outlet (provided that this does not empower the media outlet to publish the work without separate license permitting such use), and (iii) posting of map or adventure output on a website hosted by the owner of a particular commercial game system, world, or campaign provided that this output is created by users not employed by or affiliated with the site owner and who do not receive compensation for such postings.
(e) if you are an individual user, or a corporation, partnership, or other business entity with annual gross revenues of the entity plus any affiliated entities (i.e., entities which are divisions, subsidiaries or parent companies, or in which the same owner or group of owners own a 20% or greater interest in both entities) is under $1,000,000), then you may use the Software Product to create and publish maps and adventures for commercial purposes provided that all art assets and graphics included in such maps and adventures have been created by you personally or come from general commercial graphics creation programs (such as Adobe Photoshop and CorelDraw) or public domain artwork and the text portion of the adventure does not use any portion of the style and formatting provided by the Software Product; and ...
Quote from: The HellHound 101[threadcrap]
Whatever free scanning software comes with your scanner. Hand-drawn maps are still king.
[/threadcrap]
Honestly, besides Hexmapper, I've never gotten good enough with any mapping software to make a map that looks better than my hand-drawn ones.
That's kind of funny. In an adventure I posted online I drew all the maps. Nothing special, just standard fare. The first dozen questions I got where "what software did you use to draw the maps!?".
I just thought it was kind of funny. Software can make some really cool maps, but, apparently there is still a charm and style that goes along with hand drawn maps...so much so that others want to capture it with a program.
Quote from: grubmanThat's kind of funny. In an adventure I posted online I drew all the maps. Nothing special, just standard fare. The first dozen questions I got where "what software did you use to draw the maps!?".
I just thought it was kind of funny. Software can make some really cool maps, but, apparently there is still a charm and style that goes along with hand drawn maps...so much so that others want to capture it with a program.
I usually do hand drawn too. They are faster to create and I don't have to worry about what the software "thinks" is appropriate or possible. On the other hand I also wanted a mapping utility that would run in-game via the computer and take into account terrain so that I could have the computer crunch numbers for me on movement, facing directions, and provide a storage location for all my maps, and link them. So I wrote a program that does that.
re: http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135255&postcount=29
re: http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135292&postcount=36
I'm hoping to get at least some comments on this. Doesn't anyone have an opinion? Looks good? Looks like shit? Can't make out what it does? I want one TODAY? ... anything?
Is anybody savvy in internet law?
Because I own Dundjinni, but I have no use for it.
I would donate it to Pundit, but I don´t know if and how this is legal.
If you transfer to him the software and all the licensing info and then delete any copies you have, then your Sett.
Note: I am not a lawyer and am NOT giving legal advice.
Quote from: SettembriniIs anybody savvy in internet law?
Because I own Dundjinni, but I have no use for it.
I would donate it to Pundit, but I don´t know if and how this is legal.
the next paragraph from the license I posted earlier:
"(f) transfer the Software Product (complete with all documentation) and the benefit of this EULA to another person provided such person has agreed to accept the terms and obligations of this EULA and you contemporaneously transfer any permitted copies of the Software Product you may have made to that person or destroy all copies not transferred. If any transferee does not accept such terms then this EULA shall automatically terminate and all rights granted hereunder shall terminate as well."
So, you can give it to him as long as you get rid of it on your computer.
So wait, I'm not up on legalese: here's the thing: If I wanted to have a program with which I could make maps for some future FtA! product, that would be for commercial use, would I be allowed to use Dundjinni for it or not?!
RPGPundit
Oh, and can Dundjinni actually make anything other than gridmaps for miniatures? Because that's all they seem to have in their sample galleries?
I'm utterly uninterested in that kind of map; what I need is something that would let me map out a region/continent, in either hexes or FR-style mapping; and then to a much lesser extent I might want something that can do what looks like an old-school dungeon map.
RPGPundit
No and no.
I think Dundjinni is not for you, then.
Settembrini, how come YOU're not using Dundjinni? Color cartridges too expensive? Dungeon Tiles more convenient?
Let´s just say I use other programs.
Quote from: RPGPunditOh, and can Dundjinni actually make anything other than gridmaps for miniatures? Because that's all they seem to have in their sample galleries?
Yes it can. It can be set to do any sort of hex or grid-with options to remove the grids/hexes from the map, or to change the color of them as well, and some more.
You can reset the values for squares/hexes (How much square footage they equal) easily.
You can download, for free, from their forums all sorts of add ons-from trees, and bushes, to terrain features. All of that is free.
Quote from: VBWyrdere: http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135255&postcount=29
re: http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135292&postcount=36
I'm hoping to get at least some comments on this. Doesn't anyone have an opinion? Looks good? Looks like shit? Can't make out what it does? I want one TODAY? ... anything?
... I seem to have hit your Great Wall of Silence for some reason. Ok then. I can take a hint. Nevemind me. I'll move my query elsewhere.
Sorry, I did not even really look into it.
I think the idea is pretty neat, but what is Elthos?
And how do I get the Invasion:Earth rules inside that applet?
I made this with AKS Hexmapper, with a little after effect tweaking in the GIMP, in a couple of hours:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/J_Arcane/evenmorn4.gif
The downside of what I've done with the scaling here though, is that I can't load this version back into AKS, due to the scaling up of the image, and the conversion from BMP.
Quote from: SettembriniSorry, I did not even really look into it.
I think the idea is pretty neat, but what is Elthos?
And how do I get the Invasion:Earth rules inside that applet?
Thanks. Elthos is my World (setting and rules). It is also two software applications based on two Elthos Rules systems, ODS (the mini-system) and Prime (the complete rules). What I'm showing off above is a screenshot of the Elthos Prime application Combat Screen which is displaying a Map that I created with the application's Map Editor.
As for getting Invasion:Earth rules into it... um... well ... er ... uh ... hmmmmm... no. I don't think it can easily do that. Sorry. But it does a lot of Other stuff. Basically I use it to run my world, but I designed it to allow for multiple worlds, though they would all have the same base rules system. So it's not really designed to incorporate other rules systems. I suppose that could be something to look into in the future, though I can only imagine that it would be insane to try to program something that allows users to add entirely Other rules systems into it. There might also be legal complications.
On the other hand, maybe you're just ribbing me. :P I'd believe that. heh.
This took about 20 minutes in CC3.
(http://www.hinterwelt.com/IMAGES/test/Ruins-of-Radas.jpg)
About 10 minutes with Fractal Terrains Pro, cc3 and PhotoShop.
(http://www.hinterwelt.com/IMAGES/test/Oprah.jpg)
Well, I got Hexmapper, it seems really great. Now to confirm, I COULD use maps generated with this program in a commercial product, right?
Now I need a simple dungeon-maker...
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditNow I need a simple dungeon-maker...
RPGPundit
Hard to get much simpler than Dungeon Crafter or Dungeon Forge.
There are prettier, but few simpler
that I know of.
=
Alright...if anyone is still paying attention to this thread...is there any good tile/dungeon mappers for a MODERN game?
Quote from: KrakaJakAlright...if anyone is still paying attention to this thread...is there any good tile/dungeon mappers for a MODERN game?
Again, I'd personally go with something like photoshop or GIMP.
However, you could do nice modern maps with Dundjinni. The secret here, though, is that you'd have to import a lot of new artwork, like different textures for sidewalks, streets etc., and bring in lots of modern furniture and other objects. There are quite a bit of these available for free on the internet, but you'll have to search them out and load them into Dundjinni.
I'm fairly certain that you can add things into CC3 to do the same.
In general, there isn't as much love out there for making modern maps.
Quote from: KrakaJakAlright...if anyone is still paying attention to this thread...is there any good tile/dungeon mappers for a MODERN game?
Depending on the detail that you "need", there is Dungeon Crafter.
I have created a handful for my gaming and have the JPGs for them posted on
my page (http://home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/Delbert9.htm).
(I'm open to suggestions for more.)
Pavement, metal and concrete are standard tile sets already available.
=
Quote from: GoOrangeHowever, you could do nice modern maps with Dundjinni.
Yeah I'm doing Star Wars SE maps with it. A lot of the stuff you'd have to download is free through their forums. (I check in there once a week to get more stuff, for free.)
Quote from: GreentongueDepending on the detail that you "need", there is Dungeon Crafter.
I have created a handful for my gaming and have the JPGs for them posted on
my page (http://home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/Delbert9.htm).
(I'm open to suggestions for more.)
Pavement, metal and concrete are standard tile sets already available.
=
For battle maps I go to the DunDjinni forums and grab the free stuff as well and then I use Powerpoint.
here is a Pulp action firefight. a couple of heroes are trying to break into the armored cars. suddenly the badguys show up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/boojiesdad/firefight.jpg)
Unless you have artistic talent, you can easily get caught up trying to find/draw just the right graghic for a detailed map.
Personally, I'd rather have a "rough sketch" style map and describe the detail, instead of using high detail maps.
There are beautiful maps around but, making them match a specific story can be a challange.
=
Thanks to everyone with their help and advice on this. Obviously, I'm considering including some maps in my long-term plan to create an FtA! sourcebook (the Forward... to Adventure! Gamemaster's Notebook!; or "FtA!GN!").
RPGPundit
Quote from: GreentongueDepending on the detail that you "need", there is Dungeon Crafter.
I have created a handful for my gaming and have the JPGs for them posted on
my page (http://home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/Delbert9.htm).
(I'm open to suggestions for more.)
Pavement, metal and concrete are standard tile sets already available.
=
Those are actually both perfect and awesome...thanks!
I think Campaign Cartographer gives, hands down, the best results. However, it is takes a fair bit of effort to get good at it. Once you get good at it, though, there is not much you cannot do to edit and manipulate the image you've made.
Here is the map I'm working on now:
http://straszheim.50megs.com/world.PNG (http://straszheim.50megs.com/world.PNG).
I'd say it is about 30% complete and has taken about 4 hours so far. The most difficult step will be coming up with cool names for things.
Quote from: Jeffrey StraszheimI think Campaign Cartographer gives, hands down, the best results. However, it is takes a fair bit of effort to get good at it. Once you get good at it, though, there is not much you cannot do to edit and manipulate the image you've made.
Here is the map I'm working on now:
http://straszheim.50megs.com/world.PNG (http://straszheim.50megs.com/world.PNG).
I'd say it is about 30% complete and has taken about 4 hours so far. The most difficult step will be coming up with cool names for things.
Jeff
so stole that from an old Iron Crown product. You can even see the lines where he scanned it!
-Marco (Startin' rumors!)
Profantasy has a monthly subscription service where you learn how to do various type of maps. Jeff's map looks to be created using the first issue.
You can get more information here.
http://sub.profantasy.com/2007/index.html
and look at various maps styles they released here
http://sub.profantasy.com/2007/gallery.html
Quote from: MarcoJeff so stole that from an old Iron Crown product. You can even see the lines where he scanned it!
Actually, I swiped it from some unpublished Jags book that I found when I hacked ur FTP server.
Quote from: Jeffrey StraszheimActually, I swiped it from some unpublished Jags book that I found when I hacked ur FTP server.
I thought I recognized that! JAGS Fantasy Heartbreaker!! :D
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceI thought I recognized that! JAGS Fantasy Heartbreaker!! :D
I thought Jags was a Gurps heartbreaker :)
Gentlemen ... gentlemen ... there's no need to argue: Clearly it's both!
-Marco
I agree completely with regards to AUTOREALM. Not too hard to get the hang of and the GUI is decent. But more importantly, you can create great maps and it's free. I've found that it helps to clean my maps up a bit in Photoshop, but I do 95% of the work in AUTOREALM and it's great as a stand-alone.
Quote from: RPGPundit;135159What do people here think of Campaign Cartographer? I know its not free, but it is one of the only map softwares I'd ever heard of by name before this thread, so I thought I'd ask.
RPGPundit
I've been using Campaign Cartographer for years. I love it. I found it easier to get into and understand than Photoshop, but possibly because I dig maps so much. Well worth the money for me.
As an added bonus, they have a mailing list that has shite-loads of community support and unbelievably amazing map makers.
If I ever need inspiration of what can be done, all I ever need to do is look at some of these: http://www.darkleagues.com/fantasymapping/antique-style.htm and http://www.jhendor.de/images/maps/germany_topo.jpg
Does anyone know any software (Again, like pundit and the joker I like things cheap!) that would be good for SF graphics? Planets, solar systems, hexmapped terrain, high tech artifacts, etc?
paint.net available free of course, at paint.net (http://www.getpaint.net)
Includes many features similar to Photoshop.
Allow me to shill, but I think it is directly on-topic:
For hexmaps (planet terrain or starmaps) Hexographer is a good option I hope. (For starmaps look for the "Cosmic" tab which contains those iconse.)
For mapping out a spacecraft or starbase or some futuristic building I hope Dungeonographer will meet your needs once I add some SF graphics. (Right now there are only a couple, although I've got several more (overhead view of a computer, futuristic table and chairs, etc.) ready for the next release in a couple of weeks. Still you can play with it now to see if all you need are some additional graphics. (And if so, let me know what you need graphics for. I am interested in hearing what people think will be commonly needed.)
Both tools have very feature-full free versions. Links in my sig.
If you're a bit of an artist or want to take some time to learn a true general graphics tool, I'd recommend GIMP over anything else that is free.
I have a different approach...
I run a game of Civ3, type in the cheat that reveals the world map, then save it as an image.
From there, I open in Paint, and add cities/towers/ruins where I want them.
I don't use a hex map, but I'm pretty sure somewhere out there, there's got to be a skin you can drop on top of the drawing, if you need a hex map.
Quote from: Novastar;405069I have a different approach...
I run a game of Civ3, type in the cheat that reveals the world map, then save it as an image.
From there, I open in Paint, and add cities/towers/ruins where I want them.
I don't use a hex map, but I'm pretty sure somewhere out there, there's got to be a skin you can drop on top of the drawing, if you need a hex map.
That's clever! Even better if you're using a graphics program that has layers. I second GameDaddy's recommendation on Paint.Net - it doesn't have the total array of features that a suite like PhotoShop has, but the learning curve isn't at all steep, and the features it has includes the ones I think are most useful for gaming/mapping. For overland maps, especially, it's handy to have the grid on one layer, borders on another, cities on another, dungeons on another, encounter zones, etc. So you can have all that stuff in one file, and save images of whichever elements on the map you want to give to players. It's also good to be able to trace outlines and such if you want to use a "satellite photo" looking map but have a toggle-able "line art" version stuck on top.
Quote from: SowelBlack;405037Allow me to shill, but I think it is directly on-topic:
For hexmaps (planet terrain or starmaps) Hexographer is a good option I hope. (For starmaps look for the "Cosmic" tab which contains those iconse.)
For mapping out a spacecraft or starbase or some futuristic building I hope Dungeonographer will meet your needs once I add some SF graphics. (Right now there are only a couple, although I've got several more (overhead view of a computer, futuristic table and chairs, etc.) ready for the next release in a couple of weeks. Still you can play with it now to see if all you need are some additional graphics. (And if so, let me know what you need graphics for. I am interested in hearing what people think will be commonly needed.)
Both tools have very feature-full free versions. Links in my sig.
If you're a bit of an artist or want to take some time to learn a true general graphics tool, I'd recommend GIMP over anything else that is free.
Can't speak for el pundito, but I have absolutely no problem with people linking to producst or even "shilling" them here as long as:
A. the product is game related in a notable way.
B. the shill is not done excessively or in an irritating fashion.
A regular tagfline is not irritating, a big flashing one with graphics might be.
Quote from: Cylonophile;405174Can't speak for el pundito, but I have absolutely no problem with people linking to producst or even "shilling" them here as long as:
A. the product is game related in a notable way.
B. the shill is not done excessively or in an irritating fashion.
A regular tagfline is not irritating, a big flashing one with graphics might be.
I figure/hope that if someone is asking about RPG map software it is fair for me to mention Hexographer/Dungeonographer as appropriate. Just as someone who is a fan of either product might mention it or someone who loves Dungeoncrafter might mention that and list a couple of the cool things about it. But I wouldn't want to post about it every other day unless someone followed up with specific questions about it. Even yesterday there was one other related thread, but I felt once was enough.
However, it wouldn't be fair to start a new topic (other than on the Adverts forum) mentioning it or asking a question that is guaranteed to bring it up.
I hope that's in line with where you guys are coming from.
RPGplaneMapMaker is a free Photoshop Action Set. All is explained clearly here. You can't go wrong with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3hXxgNIw8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9-PuSM8L6g&feature=fvwk
download link in description
"RPGplane" tablet App coming on February-March 2011
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/971/dadohome.jpg) (http://rpgplane.wordpress.com/)
Dungeon Painter Online (http://pyromancers.com/about-dungeon-painter), it's really cool.
(http://pyromancers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/scr_editor1.png)
- No downloads, installation or registration required.
- Simple interface
- Wast selection of objects and textures
- Layers and groups
- Export to png and jpg
- Maps sharing through online gallery
- Export to multipage pdf for print
- Special black & white collection for print
- Tile categories & subcategories with preview
- Square and hex grid
- Hotkeys
Here's sample map I've done in a few minutes.
(http://rpgamer.ru/media/img/show_map.png)