TheRPGSite

Here's the link...

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/43081/big-eyes-small-mouth-rpg-returns

Thoughts? Ideas? I'm curious, but skeptical if it will bring anything new to the table. 3 had so much potential, but it fell flat on its face, and then Mark vanished from the rpg world.

Wait a minute.  Dyskami Publishing Company has signed with White Wolf to publish BESM 4, and Dyskami Publishing Company is Mark MacKinnon, the former head of Guardians of Order?

So... GoO tanked, he disappeared, and comes back under a different name to keep working on BESM?

I had a Magnum Opus publishing contract with GoO.  I lost a decent chunk of money when GoO tanked.

http://www.dyskami.ca/besm.html

From the looks of it Mackinnion has not learned anything from past mistakes and seems to want to walk back into the industry with open arms. While thinking no one noticed let alone remembering he committed fraud and screwed over freelancers and others out of money he owed them.

For ocne TPB is actually useful: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/besm-4th-edition-announced.845219/page-4 . Post # 36 shows he is trying to make accuses and no attempts at an apology. "I owe them nothing and not my fault it was Guardians of Order. It is too bad because I enjoyed Silver Age Sentinels at the time. The background and art the system not so much.

I thought that guy disappeared off the face of the earth.  I recall someone was posting stuff on drivethtu. It must have been him.

He kind of did, for all intents and purposes. Though I was once a fan, I'm actually not sure a revived BESM does me any good at this point in time. Doing "anime" is mostly a matter of tone and attitude in an RPG. I could do it with any generic system if I were so inclined. Third edition basically rubbed me as a "Not Gurps" or "Gurps Lite" than something I really needed to invest heavily into. Some of the licenses were kind of fun though. So I could see keeping an eye on it if he gets back into the licensed IP game.

Greetings!

Ok, I have never played BESM. I understand it is a RPG based on..."Anime and Manga"? Anime and Manga, as I recall from watching several series of such Japanese *cartoons* is a medium, or particular visual style of cartoon. I am familiar with the visual differences for example, between Japanese cartoons, and American cartoons.

I'm confused though on how you actually *have* a RPG that is based on a *visual animated style*. It seems to be an entirely technical/computer/technology/artist thing. I'm not seeing how you go from that to an RPG. Am I making any sense?

Furthermore, how do you actually go about making an "Anime" or "Manga" character? How would such a character be in any way different from D and D? What would adventures and monsters etc, in an "Anime and Manga" campaign even look like? Why or how would they be any different from D and D?

How are your characters actually "Anime and Manga"?

Thanks!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

SHARK,

I agree with your point about it being a medium. I suppose, because nothing else makes sense, that the anime bit is a marketing tool to market cartoon based games to Americans like me: people who don't fully get the flavor of Japanese fantasies, or to those people who love that stuff. I've seen some stuff, but not a lot. It's hit or miss like everything is with me.

Quote from: SHARK;1085190Greetings!

Ok, I have never played BESM. I understand it is a RPG based on..."Anime and Manga"? Anime and Manga, as I recall from watching several series of such Japanese *cartoons* is a medium, or particular visual style of cartoon. I am familiar with the visual differences for example, between Japanese cartoons, and American cartoons.

I'm confused though on how you actually *have* a RPG that is based on a *visual animated style*. It seems to be an entirely technical/computer/technology/artist thing. I'm not seeing how you go from that to an RPG. Am I making any sense?

Furthermore, how do you actually go about making an "Anime" or "Manga" character? How would such a character be in any way different from D and D? What would adventures and monsters etc, in an "Anime and Manga" campaign even look like? Why or how would they be any different from D and D?

How are your characters actually "Anime and Manga"?

Thanks!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

As an anime fan I can tell you, anime is mostly a medium that covers a wide range of stories and genres. The caveat is that most anime is full of tropes unique to itself and also a healthy dose of Japanese culture. It creates a unique blend of entertainment.

For example, one of the most highly regarded anime series is Cowboy Bebop. It's a space western kind of like Firefly. But because it's anime, there are katanas, inappropriately injected comedy (often comedy of the absurd), unrealistically emotive facial expressions, and other anime tropes. People tend to either like it or not so much. Yet there is still a huge range of content, some amazing and some is cheap garbage.

As far as making a roleplaying game goes, yeah I don't quite get it. Anime is so varied and ranges from mostly serious fantasy all the way up to slapstick comedy space opera. I guess the game would have to focus on being cinematic, Japanese culture, and common tropes. My guess is that they are just regular RPGs with anime art in them, though.

I'm legit excited for BESM and I will support this new edition, mainly because BESM is my favorite RPG and because it will spite the Marvel-loving punk rocker woke-meisters at RPGnet

Silver Age Sentinels was a great game. Wonderful memories.

I'm open to seeing what BESM 4 does.

If he has any business sense or any sense at all he would avoid kickstarting the product as from what I am seeing their are some even more angry than myself with very long memories who will make sure that it fails. You know what I don't blame them because to publicly be caught at fraud and even them we only found out not through Mark but from George R.R. Martin. Using other people money to stay solvent and expect not to get caught at it thinking they can just walk back into the industry shows a profound lack of compassion, empathy and just an all around miserable for a person. His post shows he has learned nothing and makes me never want to give him a wooden nickel. I do not want anything he does to succeed. Even if it means never seeing a new edition of Silver Age Sentinel possibly ever.

BESM 1E was pretty solid, and as I understand it was an attempt to make something for his Amber campaign that evolved into an anime game instead. I think I have 2E as well but didn't like it as much as 1E. IIRC I saw 3E in a store and looked at it but never bought because it was getting too far from the initial simplicity that attracted me to BESM in the first place. I love a thin RPG with few rules, but never could understand why a thick rules-laden book was "better." :(

Quote from: sureshot;1085265If he has any business sense or any sense at all he would avoid kickstarting the product as from what I am seeing their are some even more angry than myself with very long memories who will make sure that it fails. You know what I don't blame them because to publicly be caught at fraud and even them we only found out not through Mark but from George R.R. Martin. Using other people money to stay solvent and expect not to get caught at it thinking they can just walk back into the industry shows a profound lack of compassion, empathy and just an all around miserable for a person. His post shows he has learned nothing and makes me never want to give him a wooden nickel. I do not want anything he does to succeed. Even if it means never seeing a new edition of Silver Age Sentinel possibly ever.

I have 90% of the GOO library, including Tekumel(!), and I'll never buy another book from this guy. BESM 3rd was on my radar for a long time, but the whole financial fiasco turned me off to the company. I also agree that the appeal of BESM was how fast and loose it was; by 3rd edition it was essentially trying to morph into GURPS.

I was a huge fan of Tri-Stat dX (the generic version of the Tri-Stat system which powered BESM and SAS), and had purchased a "Magnum Opus" license/printing/distribution contract for a TSdX game I was going to publish through GoO.  GoO folded while I was developing and playtesting the game.  I lost a bunch of money on the licensing costs and freelance workers.

Yeah, I know, that was the chance I took when I signed on with MacKinnon and crew.  But I also know that he left a stable of unpaid freelancers in his wake, as well as other debts that almost destroyed other publishing companies.

I have no interest in BESM 4; I think it's a slap in the face to all of the people that MacKinnon screwed when GoO crashed.

Quote from: Beldar;1085204As an anime fan I can tell you, anime is mostly a medium that covers a wide range of stories and genres. The caveat is that most anime is full of tropes unique to itself and also a healthy dose of Japanese culture. It creates a unique blend of entertainment.

For example, one of the most highly regarded anime series is Cowboy Bebop. It's a space western kind of like Firefly. But because it's anime, there are katanas, inappropriately injected comedy (often comedy of the absurd), unrealistically emotive facial expressions, and other anime tropes. People tend to either like it or not so much. Yet there is still a huge range of content, some amazing and some is cheap garbage.

As far as making a roleplaying game goes, yeah I don't quite get it. Anime is so varied and ranges from mostly serious fantasy all the way up to slapstick comedy space opera. I guess the game would have to focus on being cinematic, Japanese culture, and common tropes. My guess is that they are just regular RPGs with anime art in them, though.

That's spot on I think. Some of those 'common tropes' as well are a reflection of what is permissive in entertainment for teens in Japan. You do not really have 'ratings' in Japan for adult content except flat out porno. A lot of high school manga (for high school readers, or even younger) might have visible 'boner' and breast squeezing for a joke or the like. This is also why many early console games that originated in Japan had to be changed before being released in foreign markets.

Quote from: sureshot;1085265If he has any business sense or any sense at all he would avoid kickstarting the product as from what I am seeing their are some even more angry than myself with very long memories who will make sure that it fails. You know what I don't blame them because to publicly be caught at fraud and even them we only found out not through Mark but from George R.R. Martin. Using other people money to stay solvent and expect not to get caught at it thinking they can just walk back into the industry shows a profound lack of compassion, empathy and just an all around miserable for a person. His post shows he has learned nothing and makes me never want to give him a wooden nickel. I do not want anything he does to succeed. Even if it means never seeing a new edition of Silver Age Sentinel possibly ever.

Exactly. No one should support this. You can accomplish similar things with other generic systems like GURPS, HERO or Unisystem. There's a great anime game called OVA that is similar but the author is a cool person --> https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/133493/OVA-The-Anime-RolePlaying-Game

Way too many options out there to give this joker another shot at defrauding his customers.

Quote from: trechriron;1085320Exactly. No one should support this. You can accomplish similar things with other generic systems like GURPS, HERO or Unisystem. There's a great anime game called OVA that is similar but the author is a cool person --> https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/133493/OVA-The-Anime-RolePlaying-Game

Way too many options out there to give this joker another shot at defrauding his customers.

I've got fond impressions of BESM but have been reminded of just how badly MacKinnon handled the collapse of GoO, so I'm going for "not backing a Kickstarter under any circumstances, not buying at retail until I see some sign he's tried to make some amends for his mistakes."

However, I've been poking around OVA for a while, and word of mouth about it in the wake of this announcement has been positive enough that I may take the leap.

Fuck y'all, I am still supporting this regardless of what shitty things MacKinnon did over a fucking decade ago.

BESM is my favorite RPG of all time.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085328Fuck y'all, I am still supporting this regardless of what shitty things MacKinnon did over a fucking decade ago.

BESM is my favorite RPG of all time.

Okay..? Dude, spend your money however the fuck you want, but I'll maintain that BESM 3rd jumped the shark so I doubt 4th will be anything I'd want out of an anime game.

What kind of anime do you want to play, though? Best mecha game is probably Mekton Zeta, Maid is pretty good for emulating loli stuff, Cute & Fuzzy Cockfighting Seizure Monsters still holds up for Pokemon, etc. Plenty of stuff out there that is easy to run and you can find cheaply second hand.

Quote from: Brad;1085330Okay..? Dude, spend your money however the fuck you want, but I'll maintain that BESM 3rd jumped the shark so I doubt 4th will be anything I'd want out of an anime game.

What kind of anime do you want to play, though? Best mecha game is probably Mekton Zeta, Maid is pretty good for emulating loli stuff, Cute & Fuzzy Cockfighting Seizure Monsters still holds up for Pokemon, etc. Plenty of stuff out there that is easy to run and you can find cheaply second hand.

I like the multi-genre approach BESM has and yes, you can go on about "Muh GURPS" but BESM is a lot more simple and easier to run than GURPS, and I actually like GURPS.

Also, I love my BESM 1E books a lot and I want to support the revival of BESM as a gameline. Maybe if it works out well, we can get a new Sailor Moon RPG and more.

Yeah, Mark C. MacKinnon fucked up big time with the downfall of Guardians of Order but that was almost fifteen years ago, it's time to let shit go.

I can see the fun-hating and capeshit-loving commie punks at RPGnet bashing the return of BESM since they have no sense of humor and do not grasp the concept of redemption, but I'd expect better from you guys.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085331Yeah, Mark C. MacKinnon fucked up big time with the downfall of Guardians of Order but that was almost fifteen years ago, it's time to let shit go.

I can see the fun-hating and capeshit-loving commie punks at RPGnet bashing the return of BESM since they have no sense of humor and do not grasp the concept of redemption, but I'd expect better from you guys.

The reason I jumped ship from RPGnet is because, as I understand it, here you can have the opinion that it's time to let shit go, and I can have the opinion that I'd rather watch my money burn in a dumpster fire than give it to anything MacKinnon is involved with, and that both opinions are totally OK.

I anticipate "Far West 2: This time it's anime."

So Doc Sammy if I owed you say 20000$ and I not only lied to you about no longer having it, spent the money, you had to find out from a third party, while possibly going bamkrupt and losing everything. I come 15 years later to borrow money from you. I don't apologize and blame someone else you would be cool and okay with it.

It's easy to say let shit go when it hsppens to someone else. I was not owed money yet I despise Mark on all levels. His attempt to worm his way back into the hobby deserves to fail and him to be treated like a pariah.

It's one thing if he is selling a new edition and can use the proceeds to pay off debts. It's another if he's going to run a kickstarter and your money is at risk.

At the moment, we don't know if it's going to be a Kickstarter or a standard commercial release. All that's certain is that it's supposed to come out sometime this year and will be Tri-Stat.

MacKinnon appears to have managed his new company successfully, but there's still a lot of outstanding issues and bad blood in the RPG community that he's going to have to deal with one way or another.

Quote from: Manic Modron;1085334I anticipate "Far West 2: This time it's anime."

Yeah, I think this is probably the most likely scenario, regardless of his true intent.

Which brings up another question: how SHOULD failed Kickstarters be handled? JMal and Skarka stand out as two KS shysters I'd never trust ever again. Am I supposed to just say after 10 years, yeah, I'll back a JMal KS for Dwimmermounting Dos even though he demonstrated he is untrustworthy? What's the statue of limitations on being full of shit?

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1085337MacKinnon appears to have managed his new company successfully

He managed GoO successfully for quite a while.  *shrug*

Quote from: Chunkthulhu;1085333The reason I jumped ship from RPGnet is because, as I understand it, here you can have the opinion that it's time to let shit go, and I can have the opinion that I'd rather watch my money burn in a dumpster fire than give it to anything MacKinnon is involved with, and that both opinions are totally OK.

Well, to each their own.

I will still support MacKinnon though.

Quote from: sureshot;1085335So Doc Sammy if I owed you say 20000$ and I not only lied to you about no longer having it, spent the money, you had to find out from a third party, while possibly going bamkrupt and losing everything. I come 15 years later to borrow money from you. I don't apologize and blame someone else you would be cool and okay with it.

It's easy to say let shit go when it hsppens to someone else. I was not owed money yet I despise Mark on all levels. His attempt to worm his way back into the hobby deserves to fail and him to be treated like a pariah.

Fuck off, you Marvel fanboy. Go suck Stan Lee's rotting dick.

MacKinnon deserves a second chance and maybe he can make amends once BESM is launched.

White Wolf would not have signed off on letting him do this if they thought he was going to make the same mistakes again. Especially after V5 blew up in their faces and they've got the dangerhairs gunning for them despite bending over backwards to placate said dangerhairs.

And considering how much SJW's tend to hate anime, there would be no way in Hell that White Wolf would back this if they thought MacKinnon was going to repeat what he did fourteen years ago.

Quote from: Chunkthulhu;1085339He managed GoO successfully for quite a while.  *shrug*

At least he made it look like he did.

Maybe if Mark wrote a blog post somewhere apologizing and pledging to make right all the freelancers he screwed, I might be inclined to forgive him. I appreciate your willingness to forgive him Doc Sammy, that's big of you. Maybe if he comes out and offers the hobby some explanation and an apology, I would be inclined to do so as well.

Anyone who wants to make Mark C. MacKinnon a pariah and permanently blackball him from the industry over financial misdeeds from a decade and a half ago instead of giving him one more chance to bring back BESM and possibly even redeem himself in doing so can go fuck themselves.

You fuckers who want to make Mark C. MacKinnon are part of the cancer that is killing the RPG hobby, right up there with RPGnet, Jessica Price, ConTessa, and the Neo-Bolshevik fuckers at Onyx Path.

Do our hobby a favor and either shut up (don't like it, don't buy it) or get in the grave with Stan Lee, GG Allin, and Vladimir Lenin.

Quote from: trechriron;1085344Maybe if Mark wrote a blog post somewhere apologizing and pledging to make right all the freelancers he screwed, I might be inclined to forgive him. I appreciate your willingness to forgive him Doc Sammy, that's big of you. Maybe if he comes out and offers the hobby some explanation and an apology, I would be inclined to do so as well.

Who knows, he just might do so.

We're still in the early stages of this project, and already the MCU fantards and the RPGnet commie punk hipsters are out for MacKinnon's blood.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085345Anyone who wants to make Mark C. MacKinnon a pariah and permanently blackball him from the industry over financial misdeeds from a decade and a half ago instead of giving him one more chance to bring back BESM and possibly even redeem himself in doing so can go fuck themselves.

Wow, what happened to:

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085340Well, to each their own.

Seems to me you're getting a bit pissy because people don't agree with you.  If you want to support MacKinnon, awesome, do so.  But telling people who don't want to support him to fuck themselves?

Quote from: Chunkthulhu;1085348Wow, what happened to:



Seems to me you're getting a bit pissy because people don't agree with you.  If you want to support MacKinnon, awesome, do so.  But telling people who don't want to support him to fuck themselves?

No, I'm telling those who want to permanently make MacKinnon a pariah in the hobby to go fuck themselves.

If you don't want to support his projects and you leave it at that, I don't have any problem with that at all. It's your money and you can do whatever you want with it.

If you really have a hate-boner for Mark C. MacKinnon, just don't buy his products. I won't get pissy over that.

Trying to blackball him from the hobby over grievances from a decade and a half-ago makes you no better than the Leninist scum at RPGnet, and that is the kind of hypocrisy I do get pissed at.

It really is nice to have a place to talk about gaming where people are into actual conversation about games instead of choosing emotional rampages.

Quote from: Manic Modron;1085352It really is nice to have a place to talk about gaming where people are into actual conversation about games instead of choosing emotional rampages.

Eh, point conceded.

On a more positive note, I hope this BESM 4E project works out well because BESM 1E is my favorite RPG of all time.

Doc Sammy...BESM via Silver Age Sentinels was my A+ go-to for Marvel RPGing. It freaking rules for "capeshit".

As for Mark MacKinnon...we are in a weird world.

Businesses fail. It's an unhappy real thing, especially because most businesses leave behind heavy debts, ripped off employees and often ripped off customers as they go down.

However, in the USA, we have bankruptcy court where people can flush debt and start over.

And that's a good thing overall. You don't want creative entrepreneurs permanently out of the market BUT you also don't want shitbags just ripping off people, flushing the business and making a living doing a rinse and repeat.

Because of social media, we all know about Mark's crimes against the hobby.

But what do you know about your favorite pizza place? Your auto mechanic? Your accountant? That yummy taco truck?

It's quite possible ALL of them left shitstorms behind when a previous business imploded.

So where you draw the line (and why) becomes a personal and "selectively moral" choice.

First off I am not Marvel fanboy. Second Doc if you don't want others discussing your post don't fucking post it here.  Your acting just like those nutjobs over at rpg.net.  it is the usual blind fanboy bullshit. If it was rpg developer xyz you disliked  releasing a new edition you would be calling for his head. Since your a fan of BESM surprise surprise suddenly all is forgiven simpkly because you want to get a new edition of BESM. As I said when it's not your money one can forgive anything. If he fucked you over you would be screaming bloody murder.

I concede maybe I am being harsh toward Mark yet he has shown no real regret or remorse beyond "too bad so sad...it was not my company but GOO". Maybe I am talking out of my ass and the new edition not only is Kickstartered it is successfully or the first print run sells out. As we can see with the new Fantasy Trip Kickstarter all the negativity from tpg.net and the SJWs is not hurting that Kickstarter.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/963033/mark-mackinnon-addresses-guardians-order-closure-c/page/1

If anything I trust Mark even less. Nothing says trust a fraudster more than " I know what happened  last time but the second time will be different honest".

He financially screwed over people I like and hides behind the "company" failing. Failing of course because of his own bad planning and financial choices, add to that an unwillingness to take responsibility for debts he created. Nope. Not giving him the benefit of the doubt. You support him? Cool for you. Enjoy. Don't be surprised when it all falls apart.

This is another one of those "I'll wait until the product is finished before I put one dime into it" situations. I'm not saying I won't give this guy a chance to wow me with a product, but I'm not going to risk anything on it product unseen.

At least two of the three illustrations featured on the announcement (http://www.dyskami.ca/besm.html) are straight off of #DeviantArt and several years old. Scouring places like that for existing art is a smart move, though I do wonder what kind of license he has to use them for promotional purposes.

Quote from: Brad;1085338Which brings up another question: how SHOULD failed Kickstarters be handled? JMal and Skarka stand out as two KS shysters I'd never trust ever again. Am I supposed to just say after 10 years, yeah, I'll back a JMal KS for Dwimmermounting Dos even though he demonstrated he is untrustworthy? What's the statue of limitations on being full of shit?

That's a fair question, and I don't think there is one. You either end up trusting the person again or you don't.

That said there's a world of difference between someone like MacKinnon whose failures can be blamed on gross incompetence and misplaced optimism and someone like Skarka who despises his fans, condemns his supporters, doxxes his opponents (or rather fails to and doxxes the wrong people), threatens to punch people in the throat, and had to work under a pseudonym for #Modiphius to avoid bad press.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085341White Wolf would not have signed off on letting him do this if they thought he was going to make the same mistakes again.

Wait, wasn't #WhiteWolf dissolved as an entity? And when did you decide they were a good judge of character?

I guess you're a goth after all :D

Quote from: sureshot;1085494https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/963033/mark-mackinnon-addresses-guardians-order-closure-c/page/1

If anything I trust Mark even less. Nothing says trust a fraudster more than " I know what happened  last time but the second time will be different honest".

Thing is that post was from 2013, and the second time did turn out to be different.

For those of you deeply into anime, what has changed significantly in the genre in the past 2 decades since BESM 1e came out?

How would a RPG include those new changes?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1086096For those of you deeply into anime, what has changed significantly in the genre in the past 2 decades since BESM 1e came out?

How would a RPG include those new changes?

The first question is better answered at /r/anime over at Reddit. Go there.

Once you have that answer, the second question sorts itself out.

I backed it. I have no history with any previous BESM. From what it looks like, I'm hoping for a quality generic system. Should drop any day now, I think.

BESM is best!

This is why publishers rip people off. Because they know the cattle will gladly trot into the slaughter house to be bled out of their money again.

I enjoyed the 1st edition but to be  honest I don't need a detailed system for Anime. I run my Military/Cyberpunk anime games with a homebrew Barbarians of Lemuria hack these days.

Well that is the thing really. BESM is not a system for playing anime style sessions. It is a toolkit like Gurps, Amazing Engine or d20 Modern. It just happens to play off the anime theme. But even that they play fast and loose with and even put out Big Ears Small Mouse which is for emulating cartoon animal adventures like Rescuers, Secret of Nimh and especially Rescue Rangers with its kitbash rubberband tech.

You can strip off the anime theme and its still a perfectly viable system for playing about any genre and theme. BESM Historical Wild West? Totally do-able.

BESM is basically a generic RPG with anime-inspired art, rather than a game with mechanics designed to support the conventions and tropes of anime. It's not that far from GURPS or HERO, but lighter.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085345Anyone who wants to make Mark C. MacKinnon a pariah and permanently blackball him from the industry over financial misdeeds from a decade and a half ago instead of giving him one more chance to bring back BESM and possibly even redeem himself in doing so can go fuck themselves.

You fuckers who want to make Mark C. MacKinnon are part of the cancer that is killing the RPG hobby, right up there with RPGnet, Jessica Price, ConTessa, and the Neo-Bolshevik fuckers at Onyx Path.

Do our hobby a favor and either shut up (don't like it, don't buy it) or get in the grave with Stan Lee, GG Allin, and Vladimir Lenin.

There's a difference between trying to destroy someone's reputation and prevent them from working anywhere forever because of some innocuous political difference, and someone who literally strung people along with promises of money when he knew he wouldn't be able to pay, never suffered any repercussions in any other part of his life beyond going out of business, never even tried to make amends, and is now brazenly trying to reopen the doors and go back to doing the exact same thing as if nothing happened.

If you want a good example of the cancer killing the hobby, look in the mirror.

Many people go into financial hardship. Many people go out of business. However, it takes a special kind of... person, to completely abandon everyone and disappear. Sure, we all handle stress differently. Why should I trust someone who runs when shit goes sideways?

My spidey sense says this is not going to end well. I appreciate second chances, but just the fact that he's weaseling his way back in vs. a public apology and ANY explanation of how we can be assured he won't do it again... Sorry, there are like 10 ways to get a 2nd chance and this ain't one of 'em.

Mark C. MacKinnon does not seem very trustworthy here nor does he appear to be remotely concerned about his past actions.

However... If Mr. Mackinnon has the balls to reach out to us here on theRPGsite, join this thread and make his case? I would listen. That is literally the only chance he has to get me to back this.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1086096For those of you deeply into anime, what has changed significantly in the genre in the past 2 decades since BESM 1e came out?

How would a RPG include those new changes?

Anime is considered to be in a renaissance period at the moment, with titles and entirely new genres coming out all the time. Probably one of the most notable is the rise of the Isekai genre, one I'm not super into myself, but that has spawned a number of best selling titles. Isekai basically meaning "Another world" and is about people from the real world being typically sent to a fantasy world of some kind. From the obvious "Sword Art Online" where people get stuck in virtual reality, to Re:Zero where a normal guy goes to a Fantasy world, but with no powers beyond the ability to come back to life a day earlier every time he's killed. To "No game no life" where a brother and sister are sent to a fantasy world where all conflicts are settled through some kind of game.

You also have the Shonen genre having expanded far past what it was in the original versions of BESM,  Fairy Tale, Hunter x Hunter, my personal favorite Jojo's bizarre adventure, and excellent western/eastern mash ups like "My Hero Academia" to say nothing of the return of Dragon Ball in "Dragon Ball Super".

Then critically acclaimed horror action fare like "Attach on Titan" which would make an excellent RPG in of itself and Devilman Crybaby.

There is way, way more out there than that, I'm just scratching the surface, but there's been enough change in the Anime landscape to address and give advice and ideas on how to gamify a lot of it.

That being said, I pledged to the Kickstarter and have the 4th edition beta and I have mixed feelings over some of it. The system is fine, and the changes are good, but it's setting material and game advice is reprinted from 3rd edition and that irks me since it's exactly NOT addressing the Anime renaissance that's happened since the last edition came out in 2007.

Quote from: Orphan81;1111139...The system is fine, and the changes are good, but it's setting material and game advice is reprinted from 3rd edition and that irks me since it's exactly NOT addressing the Anime renaissance that's happened since the last edition came out in 2007.

Which makes me suspicious that it's a cash grab. However, I do hope I'm wrong and you all get the awesome game you pledged for.

Quote from: Orphan81;1111139Anime is considered to be in a renaissance period at the moment, with titles and entirely new genres coming out all the time. Probably one of the most notable is the rise of the Isekai genre, one I'm not super into myself, but that has spawned a number of best selling titles. Isekai basically meaning "Another world" and is about people from the real world being typically sent to a fantasy world of some kind. From the obvious "Sword Art Online" where people get stuck in virtual reality, to Re:Zero where a normal guy goes to a Fantasy world, but with no powers beyond the ability to come back to life a day earlier every time he's killed. To "No game no life" where a brother and sister are sent to a fantasy world where all conflicts are settled through some kind of game.

You also have the Shonen genre having expanded far past what it was in the original versions of BESM,  Fairy Tale, Hunter x Hunter, my personal favorite Jojo's bizarre adventure, and excellent western/eastern mash ups like "My Hero Academia" to say nothing of the return of Dragon Ball in "Dragon Ball Super".

Then critically acclaimed horror action fare like "Attach on Titan" which would make an excellent RPG in of itself and Devilman Crybaby.

There is way, way more out there than that, I'm just scratching the surface, but there's been enough change in the Anime landscape to address and give advice and ideas on how to gamify a lot of it.

That being said, I pledged to the Kickstarter and have the 4th edition beta and I have mixed feelings over some of it. The system is fine, and the changes are good, but it's setting material and game advice is reprinted from 3rd edition and that irks me since it's exactly NOT addressing the Anime renaissance that's happened since the last edition came out in 2007.

True, but that is a Beta version, so the final full release version may be different.

Also, keep in mind that Mark MacKinnon is very much an old-school anime fan of the 90's and early 2000's. A lot of the oldtaku from that era still love anime, even if they have not kept up with the trends.

Easiest solution to regain trust would have been crowdfunding for a reprint. BESM doesn't really need a fourth edition. ;) People just wanna hold books in hand, like comics (or boobies :D). And at this age of anime popularity there's probably a large market for "booby holding" BESM books.

Its hard to trust someone who when given money for projects then fails to deliver and instead fritters off to work on other projects than the one he was payed for. Trusting this joker is just about begging to get ripped off somehow.

What's the alleged official status of the project?

And I agree a new BESM (or any other All-Anime RPG) needs to address each era of Anime and the major genres within Anime so players who want to play Macross to  players who want to play Pokemon to players who want to play this year's hit anime can all use the system via "setting" or "anime era" tweaks.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1111496What's the alleged official status of the project?

And I agree a new BESM (or any other All-Anime RPG) needs to address each era of Anime and the major genres within Anime so players who want to play Macross to  players who want to play Pokemon to players who want to play this year's hit anime can all use the system via "setting" or "anime era" tweaks.

Original BESM covered about everything with its expansion books.
Macross? yup. Big Robots, Cool Starships
Any given racing show? yup. Hot Rods & Gun Bunnies
Pokemon? yup. Cute and Fuzzy *Cockfighting* Seizure Monsters
Rescue Rangers, Nimh, etc? yup. Big Ears, Small Mouse
Vampire Hunter D, Nightwalker, etc supernaturals? yup. Cold Hands, Dark Hearts
Fantasy? yup, BESM Fantasy and Beastiary.
Space fantasy? yup. BESM Space Fantasy.

This and they did a few straight up anime adaptions via Tri-Stat. Sailor Moon, Tenchi Muyo, Dominion Tank Police, Demon City Shinjuku.

And alot of the supposed 'new' anime is just old anime themes with a fresh coat of paint. If even that. And several of those themes are not exactly original to anime either.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1111496What's the alleged official status of the project?

I backed at the level where I got both the normal version and the naked version of the system and all the pdfs.  The last update I got about the status of anything was on Oct 4th and this is what was said.

QuoteWe wanted to give you a brief update of where we are with the Kickstarter fulfillment.

Fourth Edition Line
Great news! Layout and covers have been completed and we are waiting for approval from our licencor, White Wolf Entertainment, before we can send the titles below to press. We are this close! Shortly after the printing proofs are approved and we have actually begun the manufacturing process, we will send advanced PDF links to all backers at their pledged levels.

BESM Fourth Edition (352p)
BESM Deluxe Limited Edition (352p)
BESM Naked (144p)
BESM Primer (16p)
BESM Game Screen and Adventure (32p)
BESM Character Folio (24p)
BESM Dice
We are thrilled with the visuals of our BESM line branding. Strong, distinct, and consistent. We are aiming for clean, elegant, and refined, using a color that is vastly underused in the gaming industry: white. The front and back cover spreads for several titles, as well as the dieline for the dice box, are at the bottom of this update.

Stretch Goal: PDFs of Earlier Editions
Check! Links to download the 16 earlier PDFs have been sent to backers.

Stretch Goal: Dramatis Personae
The final draft for Volume #1 has been turned in and it's great. Next, we move onto final revisions and layout. We plan to send out PDFs of Volume 1 at the same time as the BESM Fourth Edition PDFs. Volumes 2-4 are in progress as well and will be released digitally as they are available. Art is finished already for all four volumes.

Stretch Goal: Acquire Anime License
We have had preliminary discussions, but not firm yet. Even if we confirmed a deal today, we likely wouldn't announce the title until we had a stronger understanding of scheduling and production.

Stretch Goal: Tri-Stat Community Content
No change from last update. We are on track for an early 2020 launch still. Once BESM is completed, we'll be spending addition time preparing to debut this for fans and creators everywhere.

Stretch Goal: BESM Adventures #1
No change from last update. We are scouting a few writers for this project, but nothing is firm yet. It's important to have BESM 4 finalized before we turn too much attention to this first volume in a planned line of adventures.

I did get the e-mail with the links to all the old stuff.  I think my brother got the beta version, but I haven't asked him about any of what's in it.

Quote from: Omega;1111506And alot of the supposed 'new' anime is just old anime themes with a fresh coat of paint. If even that. And several of those themes are not exactly original to anime either.

Attack on Titan, SOA (Or it's more intelligent less popular brother Log Horizon), Hell JoJo's Bizzare Adventure while being a Manga that's been going on for 30 years now, was never covered in BESM and didn't get it's mainstream world wide appeal until it's Anime Adaption in the last decade and there really is NOTHING like it. Doctor Stone, Fucking Puella Magi Madoka which is basically the god damn Watchman of magical girl series. My Hero Academia and One Punch Man which is full on Western Superheroes done through the Anime lens.

If you don't think there's been a full on revolution in Anime in the last ten years, then you haven't been paying attention or you're being a purposeful grognard who doesn't want to recognize the new stuff as being new and innovative.

As I said before, if there's no attempt by BESM to address any of these new genres and tropes which have come out of Anime in the last decade I'll be pissed. I have no doubt we'll get the product, the Beta is out with the art and text in it. But it will be a cash grab to me if we're just coasting on old Anime and not addressing these new genre elements.

Yes they're things I could do myself, but I work for a living and would prefer someone else to do the creative labor for me, or give me the tools to do it myself. This is why I give Kevin Crawford my money.

Quote from: Orphan81;1111619Attack on Titan, SOA (Or it's more intelligent less popular brother Log Horizon), Hell JoJo's Bizzare Adventure while being a Manga that's been going on for 30 years now, was never covered in BESM

Except that the system is robust enough that it can cover those themes without needing its own book. Try again please. Your grasp of anime seems to be sorely lacking.

Quote from: Omega;1111638Except that the system is robust enough that it can cover those themes without needing its own book. Try again please. Your grasp of anime seems to be sorely lacking.

You're not listening to a damn thing I've been saying. One of the things I've always enjoyed about Tri-Stat books is how they'll often dig into the source material of what they're covering, and discuss and give real examples of how to portray and make game-able the themes and ideas of the media it's representing. Silver Age Sentinels wasn't just good for it's system, it also had an excellent break down of comic books at the time, and how even to do characters of differing power levels on a team. BESM 3rd edition had an excellent essay on how to portray the same story through a Shonen or Shojou lens while also talking about the changes the medium of anime itself had gone through since the 2nd edition.

Yes, I know how to use 4th edition to create the Scout Legion of Attack on Titan, I could figure out how to make Stands on my own..

But that's not why I'm buying the book. I'm buying it because I want someone else to have done that work for me, or at the very least provided some guidance on how to do it. It is saving me the mental labor of doing so myself. I bring up Kevin Crawford and his books again. His books are full of useful tools, his book "Silent Legions" is probably the best Lovecraftian RPG supplement ever, purely for the tools within that help you create your own Mythos Pantheon, servants, secrets of your world, and the like.

The 4th edition beta of BESM's text outside of the system changes itself, is largely a copy paste of 3rd edition, and provides no new insight or ideas on how to emulate the anime that's come out within the last ten years. Some advice on how to do something like the Nen system from HunterxHunter, or deconstructing a genre like Puella Modoka, or Stands and Hamon from Jojo would have been nice, rather than the exact same essay on Shojo vs Shonen I have in my 3rd edition copy.

Quote from: Orphan81;1111619Attack on Titan, SOA (Or it's more intelligent less popular brother Log Horizon), Hell JoJo's Bizzare Adventure while being a Manga that's been going on for 30 years now, was never covered in BESM and didn't get it's mainstream world wide appeal until it's Anime Adaption in the last decade and there really is NOTHING like it. Doctor Stone, Fucking Puella Magi Madoka which is basically the god damn Watchman of magical girl series. My Hero Academia and One Punch Man which is full on Western Superheroes done through the Anime lens.

If you don't think there's been a full on revolution in Anime in the last ten years, then you haven't been paying attention or you're being a purposeful grognard who doesn't want to recognize the new stuff as being new and innovative.

As I said before, if there's no attempt by BESM to address any of these new genres and tropes which have come out of Anime in the last decade I'll be pissed. I have no doubt we'll get the product, the Beta is out with the art and text in it. But it will be a cash grab to me if we're just coasting on old Anime and not addressing these new genre elements.

Yes they're things I could do myself, but I work for a living and would prefer someone else to do the creative labor for me, or give me the tools to do it myself. This is why I give Kevin Crawford my money.

Now, it is possible that Paradox* only let Mark MacKinnon have access to the BESM IP again if he could get a basic corebook funded successfully and then if that turns out well, they may let him do supplements for newer genres such as Isekai or if it does well enough, take the risk of licensed RPG's (Personally, I'd love to see a remake of the Sailor Moon BESM Game, along with Attack On Titan and JoJo)

Given Mark's past incompetence, he may had to reprint a lot of the old 3E corebook's text because Paradox wants it done on the cheap and then if it does well, they'll let him work on supplements to cover newer developments in anime.

*-I'm assuming Paradox Interactive owns the IP as White Wolf bought the rights to BESM so they could release the 3E corebook (and then dropped all support for the game) and when Paradox bought White Wolf in 2015, there was a brief teaser of an upcoming version of BESM being a possibility on the Nu-White Wolf website.

If anyone is wondering what's happening with the BESM project, it's currently stalled.

In a November 14th update sent to backers, Japanime Games said they are waiting for authorization from White Wolf (the licence holder) to go to print.  The problem is that WW has had all the completed material (4th Edition, Deluxe, Naked, Primer, Game Screen, Adventure, Character Folio, and Dice) for roughly two months and JG has no idea when that approval may come.

As of the November 21st update no new news about the approval has been received from WW. JG have gone ahead with some material samples and cover printings to make sure they are happy with the stock and color-matching.

Quote from: rgalex;1114661If anyone is wondering what's happening with the BESM project, it's currently stalled.

In a November 14th update sent to backers, Japanime Games said they are waiting for authorization from White Wolf (the licence holder) to go to print.  The problem is that WW has had all the completed material (4th Edition, Deluxe, Naked, Primer, Game Screen, Adventure, Character Folio, and Dice) for roughly two months and JG has no idea when that approval may come.

As of the November 21st update no new news about the approval has been received from WW. JG have gone ahead with some material samples and cover printings to make sure they are happy with the stock and color-matching.

As always, Nu-White Wolf fucks up spectacularly.

White Wolf finally gave approval.  PDFs of the main books will be available to backers some time in the next couple of weeks, once the print file version is approved and they can then optimize it for DriveThru.  Print books will take a bit longer, but are expected to arrive in backer's hands in late March to April-ish, depending on the shipping method the backer chose (express shipping was an option).

On a pseudo related note had anyone heard of Mike Nystul, former FASA writer, had failed not one, but three kickstarters for the Castle Nystil series? Claiming they ran out of funds.
Infinite Dungeons was going to be bailed by someone but Nystul has it back now so its still DOA.
Cairn was bailed, finished and sent off to backers by Ross Issacs who worked on various ST:TNG and Nephilim books. Backers get s POD voucher for it. But all the stretch goals Nystul has still failed to do it seems.
Axes and Anvils was rescued by Andrew Shields who I have not seen anything he has done for yet. PDFs sent off to backers only, no physical books as this was just a rescue.
Tenkar's Tavern has an article on it as well. yeesh.
https://www.tenkarstavern.com/2013/06/mike-nystul-fiscally-incompetent-washes.html (https://www.tenkarstavern.com/2013/06/mike-nystul-fiscally-incompetent-washes.html)

Meanwhile in stark contrast Sandy Peterson mortgaged his damn house to make sure his project was fulfilled and backers got what was promised.

On Saturday I received all the currently completed pdfs: BESM 4e, BESM Naked, Character Folio, 4e Primer, Dramatis Personae: Volume 1 and the 4e update to the 2e adventure "So, We Have ... An Obelisk?".  Haven't had any time to look through them yet and probably won't until later in the week.  mumblemumble stupid holidays.

Quote from: rgalex;1117332On Saturday I received all the currently completed pdfs: BESM 4e, BESM Naked, Character Folio, 4e Primer, Dramatis Personae: Volume 1 and the 4e update to the 2e adventure "So, We Have ... An Obelisk?".  Haven't had any time to look through them yet and probably won't until later in the week.  mumblemumble stupid holidays.

Yup, got all my PDF stuff too as well. I've been going over it, and while the system is quite sound, and an improvement over 3rd... With the Naked and Primer edition giving the tools for those who just wanna do games more in the 1st and 2nd edition style.... Mark is still stuck in the early millennium of Anime.

Much of the text is reprinted from 3rd edition, and most of the example characters in Dramatic Personae are rather...well, bog standard "Here's a Ninja, Here's a Magical Girl, Here's a Psychic, Here's a Monster Hunter" all from their own inhouse Anime-Multiverse setting. In some ways, I'll give this initial stuff a pass, particularly Dramatic Personae 1, since giving the bog standard classic anime tropes seems to make sense right out the gate. The most "different" character is a guy who deals in magical antiques and equipment who ends up as the Fixer for everyone else.. Magical Girls, Alien Travelers, Demon fighters and what have you.

But, like I mentioned before, there's very little advice, ideas, or examples given towards how to build your own settings more representative of the anime from the last ten years.. Full Metal Alchemist:Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter, Jojo, Attack on Titan, Demon Slayer, My Hero Academia, One Punch Man, any of the Fate series, just to name a few. Many of these Anime/Manga are massively popular and don't fit well into the idea of an "Anime-Multiverse" or at least the one that was created back in 2007 (Which is the one used for 4th edition too) since they're such self contained worlds in of themselves.

Modern Anime has moved on from what BESM is currently presenting setting wise. The system works, which is why I still like it... But it's my hope the future supplements will reflect more modern offerings rather than stuff that's already been covered and is dated by comparison.

Take it BESM 4th edition isn't in rpg drivethru yet?

Quote from: Snowman0147;1117512Take it BESM 4th edition isn't in rpg drivethru yet?

"Okay Boomer" edition of BESM is not available for purchase just yet.

Quote from: Orphan81;1117507Yup, got all my PDF stuff too as well. I've been going over it, and while the system is quite sound, and an improvement over 3rd... With the Naked and Primer edition giving the tools for those who just wanna do games more in the 1st and 2nd edition style.... Mark is still stuck in the early millennium of Anime.

Much of the text is reprinted from 3rd edition, and most of the example characters in Dramatic Personae are rather...well, bog standard "Here's a Ninja, Here's a Magical Girl, Here's a Psychic, Here's a Monster Hunter" all from their own inhouse Anime-Multiverse setting. In some ways, I'll give this initial stuff a pass, particularly Dramatic Personae 1, since giving the bog standard classic anime tropes seems to make sense right out the gate. The most "different" character is a guy who deals in magical antiques and equipment who ends up as the Fixer for everyone else.. Magical Girls, Alien Travelers, Demon fighters and what have you.

But, like I mentioned before, there's very little advice, ideas, or examples given towards how to build your own settings more representative of the anime from the last ten years.. Full Metal Alchemist:Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter, Jojo, Attack on Titan, Demon Slayer, My Hero Academia, One Punch Man, any of the Fate series, just to name a few. Many of these Anime/Manga are massively popular and don't fit well into the idea of an "Anime-Multiverse" or at least the one that was created back in 2007 (Which is the one used for 4th edition too) since they're such self contained worlds in of themselves.

Modern Anime has moved on from what BESM is currently presenting setting wise. The system works, which is why I still like it... But it's my hope the future supplements will reflect more modern offerings rather than stuff that's already been covered and is dated by comparison.

What the fuck you are talking about? Most of the animes you cited are "boring standard anime", don't need any special rule to play. Isn't because the anime plot like to make everything sound complex as fuck, for some reason, that is the really in RPG rules.

Jojo - part 1, part 2 and Demon Hunter are the same fucking, except for less POSING. Hunter X Hunter's Nen is "whaterver the fuck you play says, but mostly Special Attack", My Hero Academia and One Punch Man just use the same rules but different scales, Saitima is the only one who kinda fuck thing up, but because his Player is Mix-Maxer from Hell. Fate is Fate, you play with Servants, Mages are NPCs in 90%, "normal humans" are fucked, nobody fuck know how Noble Phantasm really work and power crashes go whaterver the way the plot say it going to be.

99% of the Isekai Genre is just Fantasy with a Super Powered Japanese Wage Slave.

In resume, you really don't need new rules to play most of modern Anime, because they're copies of things who made success in the last decade or so, or are from last two decades or more (like Jojo's, and Berserker). Really, there plenty of shit to critique about the new edition of BESM, like the horrible layout, but you chose a strange hill to die on.

Quote from: DarcyDettmann;1117771What the fuck you are talking about? Most of the animes you cited are "boring standard anime", don't need any special rule to play. Isn't because the anime plot like to make everything sound complex as fuck, for some reason, that is the really in RPG rules.

Jojo - part 1, part 2 and Demon Hunter are the same fucking, except for less POSING. Hunter X Hunter's Nen is "whaterver the fuck you play says, but mostly Special Attack", My Hero Academia and One Punch Man just use the same rules but different scales, Saitima is the only one who kinda fuck thing up, but because his Player is Mix-Maxer from Hell. Fate is Fate, you play with Servants, Mages are NPCs in 90%, "normal humans" are fucked, nobody fuck know how Noble Phantasm really work and power crashes go whaterver the way the plot say it going to be.

99% of the Isekai Genre is just Fantasy with a Super Powered Japanese Wage Slave.

In resume, you really don't need new rules to play most of modern Anime, because they're copies of things who made success in the last decade or so, or are from last two decades or more (like Jojo's, and Berserker). Really, there plenty of shit to critique about the new edition of BESM, like the horrible layout, but you chose a strange hill to die on.

You really didn't read what I was saying, but instead decided to go off and be an asshole and act like you know what you're talking about. I never said special rules to play first off. I said examples from contemporary Anime, rather than the examples given which are from anime that's about 20 to 30 years old now. Further, I didn't ask for "Special Rules or new rules" I asked for GMing advice on how to portray contemporary Anime, rather than having the exact same text line for line lifted straight out of the third edition from 2007 which covers largely outdated concepts.

Yes, I know how to do all this shit myself. But those who are new to RPG's or BESM in general, and are contemporary Anime fans, are going to find out, there really isn't a lot of examples for contemporary anime. There's rumors the licence book is going to be Cowboy Bebop. Cowboy Bebop is 20 years old now.

Furthermore, if you think Nen is "What ever the fuck you play says.." I can see you don't really watch much Hunter. For that matter, I noticed how you decided to conveniently  avoid the topic of Stands from the majority of Jojo and how complex they can get. The fact you think Demon Hunter's sword techniques and Hamon are the same thing, also speaks volumes.

You apparently fail at reading comprehension, you chose a strange hill to die on yourself.

Edit: And I get it dude, the Appleseed Avatar. You still think Ghost in the Shell is relevant and new, despite Stand Alone Complex being almost 20 years old itself. But I got news for you Boomer, Anime and Manga moved on.

Quote from: Orphan81;1117800You really didn't read what I was saying, but instead decided to go off and be an asshole and act like you know what you're talking about. I never said special rules to play first off. I said examples from contemporary Anime, rather than the examples given which are from anime that's about 20 to 30 years old now. Further, I didn't ask for "Special Rules or new rules" I asked for GMing advice on how to portray contemporary Anime, rather than having the exact same text line for line lifted straight out of the third edition from 2007 which covers largely outdated concepts.

Yes, I know how to do all this shit myself. But those who are new to RPG's or BESM in general, and are contemporary Anime fans, are going to find out, there really isn't a lot of examples for contemporary anime. There's rumors the licence book is going to be Cowboy Bebop. Cowboy Bebop is 20 years old now.

Furthermore, if you think Nen is "What ever the fuck you play says.." I can see you don't really watch much Hunter. For that matter, I noticed how you decided to conveniently  avoid the topic of Stands from the majority of Jojo and how complex they can get. The fact you think Demon Hunter's sword techniques and Hamon are the same thing, also speaks volumes.

You apparently fail at reading comprehension, you chose a strange hill to die on yourself.

Edit: And I get it dude, the Appleseed Avatar. You still think Ghost in the Shell is relevant and new, despite Stand Alone Complex being almost 20 years old itself. But I got news for you Boomer, Anime and Manga moved on.

OK Millennial


On a more serious note, I honestly think that the reason why BESM 4 didn't cover more recent anime genres and tropes probably has a lot more to do with Paradox/White Wolf than anything else. Like I said earlier, Paradox seems to be keeping the BESM team on a very tight leash and even with the Kickstarter campaign, there's a good chance that Mark and the crew had to keep things cheap for the basic corebook, and then if the BESM 4 corebook sells well enough, we will see supplements to cover newer genres and developments in anime such as the rise of Isekai.

Even back in the late 90's and early 2000's, the core BESM rulebook was more of a generic system with anime artwork while the bulk of the genre-specific stuff was in supplements, dating all the way back to the classic 1E supplements from 1999, Big Robots Cool Starships and Hot Rods & Gun Bunnies and you also had a lot more reliance on licensed settings like Sailor Moon, New Dominion Tank Police, and Tenchi Muyo back in the day.

I doubt we'll get official licensed stuff unless BESM 4E really goes above and beyond and sells like hotcakes, but I have no doubt we'll see supplements for more modern anime genres in addition to the old standbys of mecha and cyberpunk

Also, the Boomers are better than us Millennials and Zoomers in every way.

Quote from: Orphan81;1117507Yup, got all my PDF stuff too as well. I've been going over it, and while the system is quite sound, and an improvement over 3rd... With the Naked and Primer edition giving the tools for those who just wanna do games more in the 1st and 2nd edition style.... Mark is still stuck in the early millennium of Anime.

For someone who only has 1e and Tri-Stat dX for rulebooks, what's the selling point here? I almost backed it but ultimately wanted to wait and see how it did. The only reason I regret not getting into 2e is because BESM Dungeon really seems to require it; otherwise I prefer the style of 1e. I must admit, having the Naked version seem somewhat appealing.

Not being an anime fan, I never had interest in BeSM

Quote from: RPGPundit;1118226Not being an anime fan, I never had interest in BeSM

Even if you don't like anime, it's still a very good system.

Quote from: Kersus;1118049For someone who only has 1e and Tri-Stat dX for rulebooks, what's the selling point here? I almost backed it but ultimately wanted to wait and see how it did. The only reason I regret not getting into 2e is because BESM Dungeon really seems to require it; otherwise I prefer the style of 1e. I must admit, having the Naked version seem somewhat appealing.

I'm reading though the Naked version of the game atm.  At a quick glance I'd say that 4e Naked is slightly more robust than 1e BESM.  It doesn't seem more complex, but more things are spelled out so you don't have to wing it.  For example, they give you a bunch of templates so if you want to be a dwarf, use the dwarf template. You want to be a giant living robot, they built one of them for you.  

You can customize on top of those.  There are probably about 3x to 4x the Attributes than 1e had.  Most of the things that would have fallen under the Unique Character Attribute are now proper Attributes of their own.

Like I said, while reading it it doesn't feel more complex.  If you liked the simplicity of 1e the 4e Naked might scratch that same itch if you want something a bit more updated and less hand-wavy in a few areas.  Overall it seems like it should help people get up and going faster if they are RPG newbies or don't want to mess with fiddly number crunching.

Which would be closest to Revised 2e for using compatible 2e products?

Quote from: Kersus;1118456Which would be closest to Revised 2e for using compatible 2e products?

Doing a quick side-by-side, I don't think it matters much.  Both 4e and Naked seem to run on the same rules.  Nothing, system-wise, was cut to make the Naked version slimmer.  The main difference is in the amount of things presented and the examples given.

The core 4e version has a lot more race and career templates already made up but the same number of Attributes.  Most of the areas in the core 4e book are expanded on by a few lines to a couple paragraphs.  So more examples of dice rolls, an example of combat, a few more lines here and there on what the Attribute does, etc.  The core 4e GM section seems to have more advice, more creatures (30 pages vs 12 pages) and more info (31 pages vs 3 pages) on the multi-verse they are creating.

Based on that it really seems like if you have a handle on making your own stuff and aren't really interested in their multi-verse you would do just fine with the Naked version.  I'd probably consider the 4e core book as the GM's version (or expanded version) with the Naked being more akin to a player's guide.

How applicable is BESM outside Anime? Is there anything that makes it an anime game mechanically?

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1118487How applicable is BESM outside Anime? Is there anything that makes it an anime game mechanically?

I can't think of any rules specifically that would enforce an anime style.  I'd say it's heavily written with anime in mind so all the art, examples and GM advice will reinforce anime tropes.  

There are templates like magical girl, sentai member and pet monster trainer, but there are others there that would work just fine anywhere; adventurer, martial artist, pirate.

Since anime covers a wide range of actual genres, the game was designed to easily scale things for "power" levels to get high school drama all the way up to power ranger, basic fantasy to high power mecha.

What were you thinking of?  Anything specific?

I'm always on the lookout for systems that handle characters with powers. BESM older versikns used to get recommended as a generic solution

My anime games were Robotech, Mekton, and Heavy Gear.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1118487How applicable is BESM outside Anime? Is there anything that makes it an anime game mechanically?

It is very applicable outside anime. They did an expansion for example specifically geared to a more Disney/Bluth-esque talking animals setting and have done ones for fantasy and other themes. There is nothing really that makes it an anime game mechanically. You could strip out the anime art and refferences and youd have another generic universal role playing system like Gurps, Amazing Engine, etc.

Its the same with say TSR's Marvel Superheroes or Hero. MSH in particular can handle anything from fantasy to western to detectives to gods. And can handle anime themes. And Hero had books covering Westerns, Post Apoc and so on.