Tell me about your games, do you use variants of a house system? What's the basic goals, methods, and feel of the rules as you see them?

:popcorn:

Quote from: gleichman;642503Tell me about your games, do you use variants of a house system? What's the basic goals, methods, and feel of the rules as you see them?

Hi Gleichman. If you want I am happy to send you PDFs our games. Based on what you are looking for in a system, I do not believe they will match your tastes, but you might enjoy other aspects of them. In fact I believe we hit a number of red flags from your thread on design.

Our system is skill based, uses pools of d10 against target numbers set either by your opponent's defenses or set by the GM based on some recommendations in the rules sections (this last part has evolved a bit over each product and refined slightly).

Characters all have skills ranked between 0-3. You can effectively get to a 4 with Expertise (which supply a bonus under the right conditions). Plus you can gain up between 1-3 effective ranks as a bonus for various conditions.

Defenses are made up of passive numbers that serve as the TNs for skill rolls against you (and there are six defenses).

Resolution is handled by rolling one d10 per rank of your skill and taking the single highest result. Result of a ten produces a more spectacular result.

For combat you follow up your attack roll with a damage roll against the opponent's Hardiness rating. If you succeed you score a wound, if you get a ten you score two wounds (there is an optional method for counting successes on damage but this is not the default system).

Dice pools cap at 6.

Goal of the system is to be lightweight and fade into the background during play. It is also intended to be fast. So it is rigged to make it relatively easy to hit. In addition the emphasis is on things like roleplaying and investigation, so combat is pretty lethal (though not so lethal that one hit kills are likely--it usually takes at least two attacks to kill someone). All characters have the same number of wounds (varies from game to game but in most you can take 3 hits). For my style of play it works well.

In terms of flavor and style, the aim is not realism (in the sense I think you tend to go for) but plausibility. We want things to feel generally believable without getting too caught up in the details. Obviously this is going to be a problem if you are looking for something sim heavy. Most of the games also have something of a naturalistic feel to them (you are not playing larger than life heroes, you are playing people just like anyone else.

We also had the goal of keeping things short, sweet and cheap for our first four products. So the first four core rulebooks are all about 100 pages and cost 20 bucks.

There is more to the system, but this is the core concept. Right now we have the following settings:

Terror Network: counter-terrorism
Crime Network: Mafia
Horror Show: Horror tool-kit
Servants of Gaius: alt-history Rome

We are presently developing a new version of the game called Sertorius. This is a bit different. The aim is to be less rules light (it is still not super crunchy but we wanted more meat for this one) and basically characters are all powerful wizards.

In terms of development methods we playtest alot. We also do run probabilities, create Excel charts to vet for things.

It should go with out saying, none of this applies to Arrows of Indra which is designed entirely by Pundit and uses a completely different system from our other games.

Also, Bill (poster here) is my business partner and co-designer, so he may be able to shed light on some of our mechanics as well.

Quote from: Charlie Sheen;642510:popcorn:

You may be disappointed. If someone doesn't like my game, has a problem with the math or the design approach, I don't see the point in debating them (those are their honest opinions and you can't expect everyone to like what you put out). If he raises some good critiques that are relevant to what I am trying to do with the games, then I will certainly consider them as we develop the system for new settings. Frankly you can do a lot more with criticism than you can with praise. But I am not going to go toe-to-toe with Gleichman over this. He is entitled to his opinions (good or bad) about my games and I think it is a bit rude for publishers to take people to task when they express their views about a game online (unless they are saying something that is just blatantly untrue like the game is about killing puppies). Besides, I grilled him on his game in another thread, so I see no reason for him not to grill me on mine.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;642521Hi Gleichman. If you want I am happy to send you PDFs our games. Based on what you are looking for in a system, I do not believe they will match your tastes, but you might enjoy other aspects of them. In fact I believe we hit a number of red flags from your thread on design.

I'm not so much interested in doing a review or finding another game to play, I'm just curious about your approach. And I don't have to agree with it for that and I not going to judge it in this thread.



So on the goals side, you wanted a light weight system that gets out of the way, and that need would seem to be why you selected a rather small range of skill in keeping with that goal- i.e. short handling time. Am I off base on that?

Was the choice of the d10 highest number die pool driven by that same need, i.e. you saw it as quicker than other options, or were you looking for a specific probability curve or other factor?

Does the target of the attack determine the Target Number, or does only the conditions of the attack (like range) matter? Is it both (if so, how are they weighted)?

If you were going for light weight, why is the damage roll split out from the attack roll?

You say it takes multiple hits to take someone down. Do you think this matches the results of of say a SEAL anti-terrorist raid? What about auto-fire? What about sniper fire? If it doesn't match, why not?

It appears from your post that the focus was to be on investigation and role-play. Is there mechanical support for either?

At 100 pages, how much is game mechanics, how much GM advice, how much setting information?

Any support for a map and minis?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;642537You may be disappointed.

He'll be disappointed, this isn't about one-upping someone and frankly for this thread it will be impossible for you to give a bad answer. This is about finding out how others approach game design.

Oh, about the PDF. Thanks for the offer but unless it includes really good designer notes I don't think it would answer many of my questions (and those it would are just lying the ground for another question).

Quote from: gleichman;642539Was the choice of the d10 highest number die pool driven by that same need, i.e. you saw it as quicker than other options, or were you looking for a specific probability curve or other factor?

Partly, but it was also subjective. I never really like games like vampire that much, but always found the d10 dice pools helped me not to think about the mechanics too much (especially if you take out counting successes). So for me it is a quick and easy way. It also is murky in terms of probability, which is something I wanted. You know its better to have 4d10 than 2d10, but most people have a harder time calculating probabilities on the fly with dice pools instead of say a d20 or d100. To me that felt more like life where I don't actually know my numerical chance of hitting someone in the face, but just have a general sense that it is easy or hard (a lot of people do disagree with this last point though).

QuoteDoes the target of the attack determine the Target Number, or does only the conditions of the attack (like range) ? Is it both?

The target does. The target will have ranks in a defense plus he can capture certain conditions to raise or lower his target number (for example in Terror Network cover will provide a bonus to evade). Range would affect the attackers dice pool. And the attacker can raise or lower his dicepool as well through conditions. So you have conditional bonuses and penalties on both sides ranging from -3 to +3 and -3d10 to +3d10.

QuoteIf you were going for light weight, why is the damage roll split out from the attack roll?

Because when I have tied those two together in the past, it was too restrictive for me and didn't give me enough flexibility with weapons. I know it can be done. But I just preferred to have the clean break between the two. It does add one extra step. And that does objectively complicate the game more, so it isn't as simple as it could be. But the goal wasn't to get to a minimalist level of simplicity, more to get to a manageable level of simplicity.  

QuoteYou say it takes multiple hits to take someone down. Do you think this matches the results of of say a SEAL anti-terrorist raid? What about sniper fire? If it doesn't match, why not?

My goal wasn't to match the reality of a seal team raid exactly. I am not a gun expert and didn't pretend to be when I designed terror network (I have never fired a gun, never owned a gun and only read about them). So I did do some research in order to keep things inside the realm of reason, but most of my research for our Terror Network rules system was focused on things like agency structures and terrorist groups. The sniper rules increase the chances somewhat but to be honest I would probably go back and change them a bit if were to redo one of our modern games (particularly terror network).

But to answer this question. Network has never been quite lethal enough for my own tastes. Personally I would prefer for there to be greater lethality (either by inflicting an automatic wound on 10s on your attack roll or even automatic 2 wounds on 10s). But we found in playtest people didn't respond well to the game when it was too lethal like that.

That said, it is still pretty lethal. If you are rolling 3d10 for damage dice, that has about a 27 percent chance of scoring a 10, which would inflict two wounds (and the game has cumulative wound penalties). There is also something like a 2-3 percent chance of scoring two tens. So it is likely you will do considerable harm to a character with a damage pool of 3d10, and even possible you will drop them. If you use the Open Damage option (where you count successes) the chances of killing in one hit go up further.

QuoteIt appears from your post that the focus was to be on investigation and role-play. Is there mechanical support for either?

Yes. It depends on the game but in Terror Network for example we have skills like Forensics and we have mechanics for using agency resources. There are also (as much as I personally gripe about them) social skills like Command and Persuade (Terror Network has an Interrogation skill).

QuoteAt 100 pages, how much is game mechanics, how much GM advice, how much setting information?

Depends on the game. Some games go slightly above 100. I have Servants of Gaius next to me now and it breaks down as follows:

Intro: 5-9
Character Creation 10-33
Equipment: 34-43
Rules: 44-53
Running Servants of Gaius: 54-61
Servants of Gaius (info on the order): 62-65
Characters (NPCs): 66-75
The Minions of Neptune: 76-81
Other Threats (monsters and foes): 82-89
The Gods: 90-93
Caligula's Rome: 94-110

Keep in mind many "crunch" chapters also have flavor. For example the character creation section has a number of pages devoted to Roman Titles.

QuoteAny support for a map and minis?

Yes. We have rules for miniatures and grids in there. For example Terror Network has facing rules that rely on the grid and all the movement is expressed so you can easily do grid or no grid. Servants of Gaius has things like areas of control and closing rules (which interact with our reach mechanics). Terror network also has some rules for larger scale grid combat.

Quote from: gleichman;642548He'll be disappointed, this isn't about one-upping someone and frankly for this thread it will be impossible for you to give a bad answer. This is about finding out how others approach game design.

Oh, about the PDF. Thanks for the offer but unless it includes really good designer notes I don't think it would answer many of my questions (and those it would are just lying the ground for another question).

No real designer notes or anything.

I'll add my 2cents:


The Network game system attempts to catch the fine line between sleek playbility and enough crunch to make sense.


Lethality: There are optional rules that allow the gm to make the system as lethal as desired.


'Hit' and 'damage' rolls being distinct:
I personally prefer game systems where it is clear how stealthy, how evasive, how armored, and how tough a target is. The more abstract games often rub me the wrong way.


The highest die being retained certainly keeps the combat speedy compared to other dicepool systems I have seen.

I need to check out Servants of Gaius. I like the idea of the setting, but I'm a little sketchy on the mechanics overall. Paying attention to this thread.

Quote from: Zachary The First;642580I need to check out Servants of Gaius. I like the idea of the setting, but I'm a little sketchy on the mechanics overall. Paying attention to this thread.

I love the game, Zachary! I am a big fan of Crime and Terror Network as well. The system works as advertised - not a flavorful mechanic, but one which - like BRP - fades into the background nicely. highly recommended.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;642584I love the game, Zachary! I am a big fan of Crime and Terror Network as well. The system works as advertised - not a flavorful mechanic, but one which - like BRP - fades into the background nicely. highly recommended.

-clash

Thanks for the info, clash! I'll have to see what the ol' gaming budget looks like this week, maybe.

Quote from: flyingmice;642584I love the game, Zachary! I am a big fan of Crime and Terror Network as well. The system works as advertised - not a flavorful mechanic, but one which - like BRP - fades into the background nicely. highly recommended.

-clash

I concur wholeheartedly!

BedrockBrendan, have you considered writing an advernture for Mongoose Traveller? I'd be interested in seeing your take on the Traveller game.