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So Monte Cook, admitting he doesn't really know for sure but based on his knowledge as a longtime Wizards employee and based on plans created at the times he worked there, says that there will be a 4th edition of D&D released for 2008.

Whereas I believe Chris Pramas claimed it would be 2007? Which means if he were right there'd have to be an announcement sometime next tuesday.

Anyways, have any other industry sorts made predictions about 4th edition?

RPGPundit

Not an "industry" sort myself, but I've been predicting for a long time that we'd see it announced in late 2007.

Charles Ryan said, while being boss of D&D, that 4th ed would be announced at least a year before it was published. Charles isn't with WOTC anymore, but I believe that a year's head start would still be a good idea for them (to allow the marketing machine to ramp up, like it did for 3e).

I would say that it is 95% certain that whatever year WOTC release 4e, they will do so at GenCon. That means that they will announce it at the GenCon before. So I guess we'll know in August whether there's going to be a 4e in 2007. Personally, I doubt it, but you never know. I guess it depends on how the more esoteric books they're making nowadays are selling (I'm betting a lot more people are interested in Complete Warrior than Tome of Magic - Tome is good, but CW is more basic).

I'm going to go with Levi on this one.  Then again, it's just my guess, and not even an educated one at that.

I think your all fucked in the head, and I hope '07 comes and goes with nary a peep so I can lord it over all of you. :evillaugh: :evillaugh: :evillaugh:


:stirthepot:

I think the real prediction is what will be in it to try keep their market from fracturing.  It'll have to be pretty damn good to drag a significant chunk of the market forward.

Especially after 3.5.

Me I've played 3e for years. Since it came out.  But I have not yet purchased the 3.5 core books, at this point I don't intend to, and have only one 3.5 based source book (was a gift).

EDIT  Incidentally could someone explain to me why WotC would announce a 4th edition so far ahead?  Because i'd expect their 3.X sales to take a nose dive when they announce it as people hold off for 4th, not wanting to purchase a book that will be obsolete shortly. Or at least WotC is going to want a large percentage of people to expect their 3.X books to become obsolete because that would be an indication of a intent to purchase 4e.  Are they prepared to just suffer such a revenue gap in the interests of having a long marketing build-up?

Quote from: blakkieMe I've played 3e for years. Since it came out.  But I have not yet purchased the 3.5 core books, at this point I don't intend to, and have only one 3.5 based source book (was a gift).

EDIT  Incidentally could someone explain to me why WotC would announce a 4th edition so far ahead?

I think you answered your own question. Lots of people have bought lots of 3.5 books, and WOTC has to persuade them to buy into the new and (hopefully) improved D&D.

There's also the PR thing. Their former representative promised a year's warning, and going back on that might reduce their popularity.

QuoteBecause i'd expect their 3.X sales to take a nose dive when they announce it as people hold off for 4th, not wanting to purchase a book that will be obsolete shortly.

I expect that they'll do the same as they did before 3e was released: focus on crunch-light/fluff-heavy books in the year leading up to 4e. The 2e products released in 2000 were:

• Priest's Spell Compendium vol 3 (OK, pure crunch, but part 3 in a series)
• Diablo adventure game campaign setting
• Vortex of madness and other planar perils (not sure what this is, really)
• The Apocalypse Stone (adventure with a rationale for the world changes)
• Die, Vecna! Die! (ditto)
• Reverse Dungeon (gimmick)
• Diablo II: The Awakening
• Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate (linked to the computer game)
• Cloak & Dagger (metaplot catch-up for FR, and stuff on a couple of organizations)
• Slavers (adventure, remake of the old A series)
• Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium vol 3 (part of a series, and I think the VR books were pretty fluffy)

I think that's pretty much it, but I might have missed something. Anyway, there's not a Complete Handbook among them, nor any Player's Option books. There are a bunch of adventures, and most of the non-adventures would be easy to use in 3e.

That's what I think they'll release before 4e as well.

Quote from: Ragnarok N RollI think your all fucked in the head, and I hope '07 comes and goes with nary a peep so I can lord it over all of you. :evillaugh: :evillaugh: :evillaugh:


:stirthepot:

If you can lord away after a quiet '07, I'll be thrilled.  :bow:

So there's already talk about 4e... time flies and I'm feeling old.

There was lots of turnover in personnal. I wonder if that will significantly impact the final product. Perhaps a return to niche balance instead of game balance? May be too much to hope for.

I could be very far off but I suspect that the few small downsizings are an indication that 4E is not on the immediate horizon.  If it was they would want to keep a sizable number of designers around to create the edition and the new wave of support books.  

The voices tell me that Hasbro would rather have D&D be more like their other products.  They license funky versions of Monopoly but they don't edit the rules of the core game every few years.  Instead, they would rather leverage the brand of D&D into new places to both cash in on its name and to keep new people coming in and buying all the books that have already been created.

I'm guessing 2008 at the earliest, but quite possibly 2009 or even 2010.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstIf you can lord away after a quiet '07, I'll be thrilled.  :bow:

Not all that likely if they do give a full year warning. Seven or eight years between major releases is pretty normal.  The GenCon release date is a pretty solid bet, that's the big buzz party in the industry.

EDIT:  Hasboro might prefer that D&D were a board game that hasn't changed it's rules in several decades, and keep chunging in sales with licensing added sales that just "skin" the actual game. But, well, it isn't a boardgame and it doesn't have the market target type to do that.  They might hold off to 2009, as was mentioned it likely depends a lot on what their sales curves are looking like, and we don't get to see their total sales. Plus they've got to be convinced they have a boffo idea (theoretically an improvement) that'll compel people to make the 3e -> 4e jump.

Quote from: DackeThere's also the PR thing. Their former representative promised a year's warning, and going back on that might reduce their popularity.

I guess I should have worded the question more clearly. WTH would he promise that to start with. ;)  But yah, I guess an extensive marketing pre-deploy makes sense for them.

Quote from: blakkieI guess I should have worded the question more clearly. WTH would he promise that to start with. ;)

My guess is: there was a lot of talk about a possible 4th ed over at ENWorld (and likely at WOTC's boards as well). Charles popped in to calm everyone down, saying something like "I can't really talk about stuff that's not in the current catalogue, but I can tell you that we wouldn't release 4e without at least one year's warning and marketing."

3e's extensive, long-term pre-release marketing seems to have had some success as a strategy.  :D

I was expecting a thread on *content* predictions.  Timing?  I'm guessing announcement at GenCon 2007 and release at GenCon 2008.

Quote from: NicephorusThe voices tell me that Hasbro would rather have D&D be more like their other products.  They license funky versions of Monopoly but they don't edit the rules of the core game every few years.  Instead, they would rather leverage the brand of D&D into new places to both cash in on its name and to keep new people coming in and buying all the books that have already been created.

I remember Ryan Dancey talking about something like this: releasing variants of the core books every few years with thematic differences. Like the Anime D&D or the Horror D&D or something like that.

I would like to see the same gap that 1E to 2E had myself.  They are still getting a lot of mileage out of 3.5 and their Miniature Game is chugging along and doing well and they have increased set production so if they do in fact do a 4E I wouldn't expect it till 2008 Gen Con at the least.

I'm to the point that I don't care when 4E gets announced.  Unless it's so much better that I have to have it, I'll stick it out with the stuff I already have.  Sure, I'll likely buy the 4E core rules, or at least look at them, but I don't play nearly enough to hit reset on my rules.

Quote from: blakkieEDIT:  Hasboro might prefer that D&D were a board game that hasn't changed it's rules in several decades, and keep chunging in sales with licensing added sales that just "skin" the actual game. But, well, it isn't a boardgame and it doesn't have the market target type to do that. .

The problem is that you're treating D&D like an rpg.  

It's so much more than that.  It's a decent sized brand.  The majority of the people in the U.S. have heard of it. They might be looking to springboard the name into licenses that produce money without the big overhead of a large game design division. The miniatures game is a limited example of moving in other directions.  Unfortunately, a previously outstanding deal allowed the D&D movie to be made (instead of a decent movie with the D&D   brand).  But there are lots of other possibilities for D&D and other bits of owned material.  

I believe the fiction line is actually more profitable that the rpg line.  Not surprising since there are more fantasy readers than roleplayers.  Inside sources from time have stated that it was actually issues with fiction publishing and not rpg publishing that killed TSR.  They tried to jump from 2 hardbacks a year to 10.  The market didn't step up and the book returns killed them.  

I never said that 4E would never come out.  It's just that Hasbro may not be in a hurry as the actual rpg isn't a big deal to them (If you look at their reports, WOTC on the whole is presented on the same scale as Mr. Potato Head.)  They have to think in terms of money made for investment.  Rushing 4E to market may not be the priority that so many people think it is.

Quote from: NicephorusThe problem is that you're treating D&D like an rpg.  

It's so much more than that.  It's a decent sized brand.  The majority of the people in the U.S. have heard of it. They might be looking to springboard the name into licenses that produce money without the big overhead of a large game design division. The miniatures game is a limited example of moving in other directions.  Unfortunately, a previously outstanding deal allowed the D&D movie to be made (instead of a decent movie with the D&D   brand).  But there are lots of other possibilities for D&D and other bits of owned material.  

I believe the fiction line is actually more profitable that the rpg line.  Not surprising since there are more fantasy readers than roleplayers.  Inside sources from time have stated that it was actually issues with fiction publishing and not rpg publishing that killed TSR.  They tried to jump from 2 hardbacks a year to 10.  The market didn't step up and the book returns killed them.  

I never said that 4E would never come out.  It's just that Hasbro may not be in a hurry as the actual rpg isn't a big deal to them (If you look at their reports, WOTC on the whole is presented on the same scale as Mr. Potato Head.)  They have to think in terms of money made for investment.  Rushing 4E to market may not be the priority that so many people think it is.

True, and I hope Hasbro can see this truth.  Having a good D&D game is not just for selling copies of a game, it's for developing a rather lucrative license.  IMO they'd be best served by making an RPG to make roleplayers happy, not worrying about bringing people into the hobby or whatever.  If the RPG community loves it then the D&D brand will continue to trickle into other areas, making them oodles of cash on minis, video game licenses, novels, and other sources of income.  From their perspective so long as they don't totally lose their ass on RPGs it's a worthwhile investment.  It could be looked at as development of the license rather than a seperate venture.

Of course I have no actual numbers to back anything up, this is just the feeling I have.

I, for one, like the idea of getting a new edition. I hope it has substantial differences from 3.x - differences as big as the differences between 2nd Ed and 3.x.

Why? Because it'll be a breath of fresh air. Something new and different to mix things up a bit. If I declare a new campaign with new rules and new books, all of a sudden we're all on the same footing again - even the powergamers. We're rushing into unfamiliar territory, finding new things, seeing how things interact, finding the min-max combos...

It's exciting to me. I don't worry about old stuff going obsolete, since I've discovered how ridiculously easy it is to import stuff from previous editions into 3.x (the trick is, by the way, not to get anal about exactly cooresponding power levels and statistics, but just to make up some rules that make the thing operate the way the flavor text describes it).

Quote from: gleichmanSo there's already talk about 4e... time flies and I'm feeling old.

Already? No, there's been talk of it going on 3 years now.

Quote from: Ragnarok N RollAlready? No, there's been talk of it going on 3 years now.

Fuck, there's been talk of 4e since the rumors of 3e first hit the internet.

Quote from: Ragnarok N RollAlready? No, there's been talk of it going on 3 years now.

I've been out of touch for a while.

Will WotC keep the OGL for 4e?

If not, they will split the market.  (Well, even more than otherwise.)  

Mongoose will make hardback versions of their existing 'pocket' PHs and GMGs.  Companies will continue to produce 'new' material for 3.5 (or some OLG-based 3.5 ersatz products).

Schisms have occurred before (e.g. the 'pre-3e' players who hang out at dragonsfoot.org versus the '3/3.5' players at ENWorld).  But unlike past schisms, companies will be able to continue to legally publish material for 3.5 (thanks to the OGL, which will never expire).

I would think that this schism would be quite large if 4e is even more 'minis-based' than 3.5.  (The trend towards minis being apparent in the move from 3e to 3.5 e.)

This might be okay with WotC if they figure that they  can make more money by marketing minis to the new 4e players than they will lose by the people decide who give the new edition a pass.

Quote from: AkrasiaWill WotC keep the OGL for 4e?

I predict they will keep the OGL, but strip it down badly. So that it's technically possible to use it to create suppliments, but there won't be a lot of the good stuff. That way WOTC can put out suppliments that are inherently superior to anything 3rd parties can come up with.

Either that, or the SRD will exist but along with some sort of licensing fee. Those who sell products might have to send a portion of the proceeds back to WOTC or something.

Quote from: blakkieIncidentally could someone explain to me why WotC would announce a 4th edition so far ahead?  Because i'd expect their 3.X sales to take a nose dive when they announce it as people hold off for 4th, not wanting to purchase a book that will be obsolete shortly. Or at least WotC is going to want a large percentage of people to expect their 3.X books to become obsolete because that would be an indication of a intent to purchase 4e.  Are they prepared to just suffer such a revenue gap in the interests of having a long marketing build-up?

They need time to secure preorders, among other things.

I think many of the OGL products (if 4E isn't open that is) will be derivative D20 systems like Mutants and Masterminds or AE more than new 3.5 material.  There will be OGL 3.5 material for certain, as long as people are still playing the game in enough numbers to make such product viable, but I think that we'll see more and more OGL line split off and try to make their own niche than anything else.  GR is already doing a great job of this, and it's likely to continue.

Quote from: kanegrundar...  GR is already doing a great job of this, and it's likely to continue.

GR's strategy with True20 suggests to me that there is a widespread suspicion  within 'the industry' that:
 
(a.) 4e is coming sooner rather than later (200/2008 rather than 2010); and

(b.) 4e will not be OGL (or highly restricted, in the manner suggested by Name_Lips).

I think you're right.  Yet at the same time even the folks at GR, Mongoose, WW and the rest are running on speculation.  No one not tied to WotC knows for certain when/if 4E is coming and if it's going to be open or not.  Going the OGL route without the D20 stamp is the safe bet to have a continuing product line that still allows publishers to publish D20 compatible material without having to worry about what WotC is going to do.

Quote from: AkrasiaGR's strategy with True20 suggests to me that there is a widespread suspicion  within 'the industry' that:
 
(a.) 4e is coming sooner rather than later (200/2008 rather than 2010); and

(b.) 4e will not be OGL (or highly restricted, in the manner suggested by Name_Lips).

I'm not so sure.  I get the feeling that True20 might be more a reaction to some of the sucky ass rules in 3.5, like the more and more tediously miniature-based combat rules.

It, and a lot of the other variants, strike me as having a primary motivation of "the current rules suck and I can damn well do better than that".  I think the hope is that they'll be able to strike out with their own branding (Powered by...), but I don't know that most of them are *expecting* to have a successful branding of their own.  Hoping, but not expecting.

That's something else that just came to mind...What's going to stop someone from using the OGL in it's current form to still support a 4th edition of D&D?  Unless 4E is so massively different that it uses a totally different dice mechanic, I could see companies skirting the edges by making OGL products with mechanics that either compliment or copy the new edition.  As long as they are smart about it, they could still make proudcts that would work with the new edition.  They just couldn't say that they are made for use with 4E (which could be a problem in it's own right).

Quote from: CyberzombieI'm not so sure.  I get the feeling that True20 might be more a reaction to some of the sucky ass rules in 3.5, like the more and more tediously miniature-based combat rules.

It, and a lot of the other variants, strike me as having a primary motivation of "the current rules suck and I can damn well do better than that".  I think the hope is that they'll be able to strike out with their own branding (Powered by...), but I don't know that most of them are *expecting* to have a successful branding of their own.  Hoping, but not expecting.

Heh.  That's the only constant in any business: hope you strike a chord with the consumer, but never expect it!

Also, more product tie-ins. The minis were a good start. But I'm sure some marketing genius is wondering why the books don't suggest other products? Like official battlemats (like they put out for D&D minis), WOTC dice bags, "official" dice, etc. D&D players often use a LOT of shit at the table, almost none of which (except the minis and books) are produced by WOTC. I made a poster, for isntance, with terrain symbols and the effects of the terrain types, for quick reference when drawing a quick battle map. Why isn't WOTC selling official posters with such information? And then marketing them directly in their products?

I think that, even if 4E is OGL, 3E will still receive support from other companies.  No matter what 4E is like, some people will prefer 3E.  It may not be huge group, but it will be there.

There would still be a niche market for AD&D products if they could be legally made.

Quote from: Name LipsAlso, more product tie-ins. The minis were a good start. But I'm sure some marketing genius is wondering why the books don't suggest other products? Like official battlemats (like they put out for D&D minis), WOTC dice bags, "official" dice, etc. D&D players often use a LOT of shit at the table, almost none of which (except the minis and books) are produced by WOTC. I made a poster, for isntance, with terrain symbols and the effects of the terrain types, for quick reference when drawing a quick battle map. Why isn't WOTC selling official posters with such information? And then marketing them directly in their products?

They have Official D&D dice actually and TSR used to have Dice Bags (have a bunch from the old Adventure Game circa 98).  I think a lot of it has to do with manufacturing and disribution.  You can get Basic Games and Mini Games at Stores other then Game/Hobby stores but is target going to order a bunch of Gaming Maps, Toys R Us?

Quote from: Phantom StrangerThey have Official D&D dice actually and TSR used to have Dice Bags (have a bunch from the old Adventure Game circa 98).  I think a lot of it has to do with manufacturing and disribution.  You can get Basic Games and Mini Games at Stores other then Game/Hobby stores but is target going to order a bunch of Gaming Maps, Toys R Us?

That's why the books need to hit them hard, by inserting actual rules that use these products, then having order forms or referring to website links to actually buy them.

Quote from: Name LipsThat's why the books need to hit them hard, by inserting actual rules that use these products, then having order forms or referring to website links to actually buy them.

You haven't been reading the new books have you, they have advertisements and support for the other products.  Hit it too hard though and you have the people who are pissy about them even making miniatures being even more pissy.

Quote from: Name LipsI, for one, like the idea of getting a new edition. I hope it has substantial differences from 3.x - differences as big as the differences between 2nd Ed and 3.x.

That's pretty much the polar opposite of what I'd like to see. What I'd like to see is an edition which incorporates all the improvements upon the original 3e system from 3.5 to the various third party contributions. This edition has had perhaps the most extensive field-testing of any RPG ever. This is taking into account the impact the internet has had upon the game - no other edition of any game has had such an extensive, constant, ongoing discussion of its rules, ever. Even taking into account that the vast majority of 3e gamers aren't online, enough are online that problems are quickly identified and fixed in some way or another, whether it's official WotC stuff, a third party publisher's material, or material on a fansite. A new edition as extensively revised as what you propose would esentially toss all of that away. If not all of it, then at least a really substantial part of it. It could be, though, that a new edition that pulled all the foregoing 3.x tweaks and fixes together would result in a game as different from the original 3e as 3e was from 2e.

Oh, as to when a 4th edition might appear...2008 sounds about right to me.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThat's pretty much the polar opposite of what I'd like to see. What I'd like to see is an edition which incorporates all the improvements upon the original 3e system from 3.5 to the various third party contributions. This edition has had perhaps the most extensive field-testing of any RPG ever. This is taking into account the impact the internet has had upon the game - no other edition of any game has had such an extensive, constant, ongoing discussion of its rules, ever. Even taking into account that the vast majority of 3e gamers aren't online, enough are online that problems are quickly identified and fixed in some way or another, whether it's official WotC stuff, a third party publisher's material, or material on a fansite. A new edition as extensively revised as what you propose would esentially toss all of that away. If not all of it, then at least a really substantial part of it. It could be, though, that a new edition that pulled all the foregoing 3.x tweaks and fixes together would result in a game as different from the original 3e as 3e was from 2e.

But what you're proposing isn't really a new edition, is it, as much as it is a recompiliation of existing rules. It might as well be called "D&D 3.5 Deluxe."

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThat's pretty much the polar opposite of what I'd like to see.

In personal taste, I must side with Name Lips, even with the Swine label staring at me.

I do think however that some version of your vision is more likely and better for WotC.

Look at it this way. Every time D&D comes out with a new edition, they get to market exactly the same books to the core players. Not just the core, but the suppliment books too. From Complete Magic User's Handbook to Tome and Blood to Complete Arcane.

You might think it's better for them, from their point of view, to caplitalize on all the stuff that's already published, but in actuality it's not. If people already have a shitload of suppliments that work for a system, they're less likely to buy any new ones. But you can just change the rules a bit and sell the same people new versions of the suppliments they already have.

Quote from: Name LipsBut what you're proposing isn't really a new edition, is it, as much as it is a recompiliation of existing rules. It might as well be called "D&D 3.5 Deluxe."

Yes, it would be a new edition, in my opinion. Very much so. Like I said, adding in all the material that has been released since 3.0/3.5, and replacing the stuff that doesn't work with stuff that does, would result in an edition more extensively rebuilt than what happened with 1e/2e, and maybe not quite as extensive as the difference between 2e and 3e (though I'd argue that it may well result in a really new edition).

Quote from: Name LipsLook at it this way. Every time D&D comes out with a new edition, they get to market exactly the same books to the core players. Not just the core, but the suppliment books too. From Complete Magic User's Handbook to Tome and Blood to Complete Arcane.

I expect any upgrade from 3.5 and built upon that same core to require a re-issue of all those books. That's a given.

I just don't expect to see the same degree of changes that there were from 2nd to 3rd.

IMO, the differences between 1e AD&D and 2e AD&D were, overall, no more significant than the differences between 3e D&D and 3.5 D&D.  (In both cases, material for either 'edition' could be used with little difficulty with the other 'edition'.)  Indeed, AFAICT, the differences between 3e and 3.5 are greater than those between 1e and 2e.

What a publisher decides to designate as a 'new edition' is rather arbitrary.  (E.g. see the many different 'editions' of CoC.)

Quote from: ColonelHardissonYes, it would be a new edition, in my opinion. Very much so. Like I said, adding in all the material that has been released since 3.0/3.5, and replacing the stuff that doesn't work with stuff that does, would result in an edition more extensively rebuilt than what happened with 1e/2e, and maybe not quite as extensive as the difference between 2e and 3e (though I'd argue that it may well result in a really new edition).

I don't think it would be a "rebuilt" edition. I think it would just be a bloated, cumbersome book. Who needs 4000 spells 2000 feats, and 300 PrCs? I want something a beginner can pick up and start playing in 10 minutes, but spend the next 10 years mastering.

Even with 3.x, which is pretty simple at its core, I feel like I'm teaching a class when I introduce new players. There's just so much for them to take in, I'm amazed they stick with it.

Quote from: AkrasiaWhat a publisher decides to designate as a 'new edition' is rather arbitrary.  (E.g. see the many different 'editions' of CoC.)

Good example.  As far as I can tell, whenever they do a new major print run, they change the layout a bit, clean up a few paragraphs and call it a new edition.  I've played with 4th and 6th edition books at the same table with no noticeable difference.

Quote from: Name LipsI don't think it would be a "rebuilt" edition. I think it would just be a bloated, cumbersome book. Who needs 4000 spells 2000 feats, and 300 PrCs?

Christ, if that's what I was proposing, then I'd agree. But that's NOT what I was proposing. Give me some credit. I said put in the stuff - as in, rules that speed up play and other stuff like the new stat block - that has been proven to work and get rid of the stuff that doesn't. I didn't say add in every single fucking spell and prestige class ever made. Keep the core spells as they are, essentially. Same with Prestige Classes. Maybe add in a few that fit an archetype that hasn't been covered before, and that's it. There's been a helluva lot more stuff done out there than just spells and prestige classes.

Quote from: RPGPunditAnyways, have any other industry sorts made predictions about 4th edition?

Matthew Sprange from Mongoose thinks 2007:

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=5627397&postcount=42

Quote from: NikchickMatthew Sprange from Mongoose thinks 2007:

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=5627397&postcount=42

BTW, anyone know when the new edition of Runequest is supposed to be out?

Quote from: kanegrundarBTW, anyone know when the new edition of Runequest is supposed to be out?

Mongoose's website says mid-2006.

Quote from: kanegrundarBTW, anyone know when the new edition of Runequest is supposed to be out?

Looks like it's going to be using yet another game system if I'm reading the info on the website right.

Quote from: gleichmanLooks like it's going to be using yet another game system if I'm reading the info on the website right.

That's alright by me.  I only played Runequest once a long time ago.  

Mid 2006?  So it could be out in a couple of months then.  Cool!

Quote from: gleichmanLooks like it's going to be using yet another game system if I'm reading the info on the website right.

Well looks like that kills my want and desire for it...:(

Quote from: gleichmanLooks like it's going to be using yet another game system if I'm reading the info on the website right.

Not necessarily. It says that it builds upon previous editions, and that Stafford is involved. My guess is that it'll be a real revamp of the game along the lines of what was done with Warhammer.

Quote from: Phantom StrangerWell looks like that kills my want and desire for it...:(

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. It can be read more than one way.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonNot necessarily. It says that it builds upon previous editions, and that Stafford is involved. My guess is that it'll be a real revamp of the game along the lines of what was done with Warhammer.

Maybe. However it does say specifically "new system". Not that I consider that either a positive or negative. Just something I noticed.

The only edition of Runequest I've ever played was the first.

Quote from: AkrasiaIMO, the differences between 1e AD&D and 2e AD&D were, overall, no more significant than the differences between 3e D&D and 3.5 D&D.  (In both cases, material for either 'edition' could be used with little difficulty with the other 'edition'.)  Indeed, AFAICT, the differences between 3e and 3.5 are greater than those between 1e and 2e.

Whilst I think you have a valid point for the PHB and DMG, that was NOT true for the changes from the 1e MM to the 2e Monstrous Compendium.  THAT was a whole 'nother game.  Take any 1e module and throw in the 2e monsters and you have a whole different, much tougher adventure.

I think people ignore that too much when they compare editions.  2e really was different, just for that.

Depends on which monsters. The dragons and giants sure got toughened up, but I'm not so sure about the rest.

Quote from: DackeDepends on which monsters. The dragons and giants sure got toughened up, but I'm not so sure about the rest.

...and powerful undead, and outsiders.  At least.  A large section of the iconic monsters got a big power boost.

I think making a 4th edition not OGL would be close to killing it - all the companies that support 3.5 today would keep supporting that edition but not be allowed to publish material for 4th ed - the incentive for players to switch to the new edition would be very weak.

Unless 4th edition is so similar to 3.5 that you could use 3.5 material with the new edition, that is.