TheRPGSite

An announcement of some interest: http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140527. Presumably this is what Pundit was alluding to.

Though only character generation will be released with the starter set, the final version a month later looks to be a stripped down version of the entire core ruleset.

Let's hope that they sell it as a print book, even if via POD (though I am guessing they won't) :).

OK, screw the 'starter set' I want that.
It sounds like other quickstarts I like... such as the one for BRP and the one for GURPS.
And stands well amongst all the free PDFs of various retroclones.

Quote from: Skywalker;752816Let's hope that they sell it as a print book, even if via POD (though I am guessing they won't) :).

It would be nice if there was a version that is set up to be taken to kinkos and printed... made into a book.
If not I'm sure someone will do it for them.

Given this looks to be a "live" document, which gets updated, my guess is this will be how WotC hope to solve the errata issue :) It will be interesting to see if this ties into a revived OGL.

Interesting. I like it especially if it's a permanent thing  Almost a living SRD.
.

So if WotC didn't think that the Starter Set was crippleware without chargen, then why create the Basic Set?

The first hit's free.

Quote from: jeff37923;752823So if WotC didn't think that the Starter Set was crippleware without chargen, then why create the Basic Set?

They are different types of products.  This goes to level 20 and is the entire core game stripped down.  The starter set is an adventure for the DM to run for beginners.  They're accomplishing totally different goals.

Quote from: Skywalker;752816Let's hope that they sell it as a print book, even if via POD (though I am guessing they won't) :).

Mearls tweeted today he is considering it.

Quote from: robiswrong;752825The first hit's free.

Sounds like the first hit might be all I'd ever want. I doubt my interest in 5e is going to go much further than that.
My hope for the 'starter set' was to get a low cost setup of the basic rules... decide yay or nay. I would have happily spent the 20 for a physical copy... but it's only an advertisement.
This sounds like it will suit that role instead. If it's full of crap I don't like, I can assume the physical books will be worse and I can delete it, no pennies the poorer.

Quote from: jeff37923;752823So if WotC didn't think that the Starter Set was crippleware without chargen, then why create the Basic Set?

To engage people who don't want to make the full investment in the main rulebooks (either for money reasons or because they don't want the full-blooded rules), but who could be convinced to buy adventures and other support material to run with Basic D&D.

This way, the Starter Set hooks the players, Basic D&D gives them sufficient support to keep gaming forever with the simplified rules - retaining them as potential customers for supplemental material and adventures - and the Big Three books give the full expanse of the game for those who want more options than Basic offers.

Also, since it's a free PDF, there's reasonable odds of it being evergreen (in the sense that it wouldn't be worth Wizards' time pulling it since it'd be so ubiquitous that people could trivially download copies).

Indeed, if they're being really serious about putting Basic D&D in as many hands as possible, they'd issue it DRM-free and let people print as many copies of it as they like.

Quote from: Mistwell;752827Mearls tweeted today he is considering it.

Getting better and better. It's EXACTLY what I thought was going down, a Dnd done right.

Even I only planned to get the PHB and MAYBE the DMG. This is perfect.:)

Quote from: Warthur;752829To engage people who don't want to make the full investment in the main rulebooks (either for money reasons or because they don't want the full-blooded rules), but who could be convinced to buy adventures and other support material to run with Basic D&D.

Yep, if I like it I'd certainly buy some modules to check them out... mine for ideas... not that I don't do that already for other games.

If this is good I might find myself running an actual honest-to-goodness (and current) version of D&D for the first time in... decades.

This seems too good to be true. If all the core stuff is available for free or $20... Why the books?  For completeness' sake?

Quote from: Simlasa;752833Yep, if I like it I'd certainly buy some modules to check them out... mine for ideas... not that I don't do that already for other games.

In fact, I note that Tyranny of Dragons takes the PCs up to 15th Level and is meant to be playable just by purchasing the Starter Set and modules, so presumably the Basic PDF will be what lets you do that.

Presumably the reason they aren't simply leading with a printed Basic is that it's condensed from the PHB, DMG and MM, and those are still being finalised.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;752834This seems too good to be true. If all the core stuff is available for free or $20... Why the books?  For completeness' sake?

Everything that isn't core, essentially (which sounds like it'll include paladins, gnomes, rangers, druids, and all sorts of other stuff that lots of folk won't want to be without). Plus optional rules: I suspect Basic will have close to zero optional rules (so as not to burden newcomers with the decision of which options to use), whilst the big books will be stuffed to the gills with 'em (and that's where the much-vaunted modularity will come in).

Quote from: Warthur;752835In fact, I note that Tyranny of Dragons takes the PCs up to 15th Level and is meant to be playable just by purchasing the Starter Set and modules, so presumably the Basic PDF will be what lets you do that.

Presumably the reason they aren't simply leading with a printed Basic is that it's condensed from the PHB, DMG and MM, and those are still being finalised.

Correct sir.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;752834This seems too good to be true. If all the core stuff is available for free or $20... Why the books?  For completeness' sake?

No for different levels of play like before 3/4e. When I got in (1/2e) it was modular you could be basic or go hog wild.

Quote from: Marleycat;752840No for different levels of play like before 3/4e. When I got in (1/2e) it was modular you could be basic or go hog wild.

If anything, this'll be even better because there won't be the weird system differences like the different AC scales and assumed hit point totals between the basic and advanced game.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really clever response to Pathfinder and the OSR. Make the basic game free, and then you sell your products on the strength of the exclusive options you build into them and on the strength of the adventures and setting content and other stuff which people can't just swipe via the OGL.

Quote from: Warthur;752843If anything, this'll be even better because there won't be the weird system differences like the different AC scales and assumed hit point totals between the basic and advanced game.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really clever response to Pathfinder and the OSR. Make the basic game free, and then you sell your products on the strength of the exclusive options you build into them and on the strength of the adventures and setting content and other stuff which people can't just swipe via the OGL.

Yep. I love the fact I get to play a current supported Dnd again that's simpler then Pathfinder and even FantasyCraft.:)

I may even try to run a Dnd game.:eek!

The monster stuff I usually messed up though.;)

I tend to freeform alot because of my Mage roots.

Quote from: Warthur;752843The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really clever response to Pathfinder and the OSR. Make the basic game free, and then you sell your products on the strength of the exclusive options you build into them and on the strength of the adventures and setting content and other stuff which people can't just swipe via the OGL.

It seems to work for the OSR games, many having free core rules and a bunch of adventures to buy. Fanzines with various options.

Okay, now I'm interested.  This new Basic D&D, as described, is what I've said should be the core of the game for years; four classes, four races, up to 20th level, stripped of setting stuff, mission-critical rules only.  That WotC will give this away (in PDF) ensures that skeptics like me will download it and try it; smart move.

Quote from: jeff37923;752823So if WotC didn't think that the Starter Set was crippleware without chargen, then why create the Basic Set?

The starter set is to get new DMs up and running. The basic rules are to keep them going, and hopefully, they'll like it all enough to eventually make the transition to full blown addicts.

Free is good marketing. I may not think much of 5e so far and I certainly think their PR so far is retarded, but the "Basic D&D" freebie is smart stuff.

EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

Quote from: Scott Anderson;752834This seems too good to be true. If all the core stuff is available for free or $20... Why the books?  For completeness' sake?

Anyone who likes the game will buy the core books and as the OSR knows, its easy to introduce a free game to new people. Also, the PDF is the "try before you buy" since the PDF only includes the bare bones and the book promises you loads of goodies more. And there's the current preference toward dead tree by consumers.

Quote from: Spinachcat;752858EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

Since you're already an experienced gamer, you probably don't.

On the other hand, the basic PDF won't include a chunky campaign covering the first few levels of play which you can use to pick up and start playing straight away, or pregens, or (obviously) physical dice. The Starter Set has all of those, plus a very simple rundown of the rules the players need at levels 1-5. That's actually a very valuable tool for someone who hasn't gamed before to help them grasp the concepts covered in the basic PDF, give them some fully fleshed-out examples of adventure design, and give them resources to start playing within minutes of opening the box, before they even read the entire Basic PDF.

In other words, the starter kit seems to be designed to turn kids with no prior D&D experience into DMs.

Quote from: Spinachcat;752858EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

Been saying for days, the Starter box is not intended as "the game" it's intended as "the introduction for the new DM on how to run a game".  That's different concepts.  They were never trying to sell YOU the Starter box. People just got all pissed in a "damn you let me give you my money" sort of way, thinking they wanted to pay for a Basic edition and conflated that concept with the Stater box.

I am getting a Starter box to give away to someone in hopes they will check it out and want to grab the PDF and then want to buy more shit, sort of easing them into the warm water and then slowly setting it to boil.   Maybe you don't want to do that - then don't buy the Starter box.  But pretty damn sure you are not a new DM needing a boxed set to introduce you to how to DM, with some basic adventures to get you started.

Haven't Mistwell, myself, and Sacrosanct been saying this already? So confused I am.

Quote from: Mistwell;752860People just got all pissed in a "damn you let me give you my money" sort of way, thinking they wanted to pay for a Basic edition and conflated that concept with the Stater box.

Because some tried to imply (or allowed others to infer) that the 'Starter Box' was a complete game... and then it wasn't.
I'd still pay them for a boxed version of this Basic thing, the version that will be out in August.

Quote from: Simlasa;752863Because some tried to imply the 'Starter Box' was a complete game... and then it wasn't.
I'd still pay them for a boxed version of this Basic thing, the version that will be out in August.

Mearls already said it's possible they sell it in book form. Which means it will happen in no less than 2-5 years maximum. Basic will be available when the starter set is. I'm even thinking of downloading it and printing it off.

Quote from: Mistwell;752827Mearls tweeted today he is considering it.

Now THAT would be interesting. I mean it.

Good move! :)

The 1e AD&D reprints, the re-release of OOP PDFs (in cleaned up form), and now this.  It looks like WotC went through some de-dickification therapy a couple of years ago.

I'd love a print version.  Hope that happens.

Quote from: Spinachcat;752858EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

You don't. The starter box is for the peeps who aren't hanging out online already thinking about this stuff.

It all strikes me as a solid plan.

Great plan.

Also, the artwork is very AD&D:

(http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ll_20140527.jpg)

Brilliant.

Also, as these things seem to get lost in the noise, it says that once the PHB hits the shelves, the free document will be updated to include monsters and magic items (the iconic stuff).

So, those wanting a basic game don't even have to pay for it - they can buy the adventures and use the pdf. It also states that all the new rules/magic items/spells etc contained in the adventures will be fully explained in that book. No need to buy any other books if you don't want to.

I think it's a phenomenal decision by Wizards and i truly hope they are rewarded for it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;752858EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

You don't. It's not for you because you're not a starter, you've played for years.

But if you've got like a nephew or niece, or a cousin, or a friend's kid who wants to just pick up and play for the first time with their friends, you might like to give it to them so they can do that with as little time spent between receiving the box and starting the game as possible.

That's a very smart decision. Good on them for it!

This might have slid me over from "proceed cautiously" camp to the "I'm all in, baby!" camp.

This might have slid me over from "proceed cautiously" camp to the "I'm all in, baby!" camp.

Basic D&D has been available for some time now as a System Reference Document released under the OGL. Still, it's good to see WOTC acknowledging the earlier contribution of it's employees, and they honor those employees by releasing a comprehensive Basic Dungeons and Dragons book. They should put it into print, I'd buy that.

If it was relatively inexpensive, I'd buy several and get the extra books into the hands of my much younger (...these days all most of my players are much younger than me) rpg fans.

Great move!  I take back all the nasty things I've been thinking of wotc lately.

Brilliant move. I hope they succeed :) Also, I am liking the art A LOT.

Quote from: Simlasa;752863Because some tried to imply (or allowed others to infer) that the 'Starter Box' was a complete game... and then it wasn't.
I'd still pay them for a boxed version of this Basic thing, the version that will be out in August.

I think this can't be overstated. Pundit et al's attempts to read WotC's tea leaves has led to some of the most misleading expectations about Next's product content yet.

More precisely: what decisively led to the expectations set for the Starter Box on this site was caused by a series of Pundit's statements, premised on his being (explicitly) the only person 'in the know' ("My position (again, the ONLY actually INFORMED rather than speculative position here) ..."), that (1) the Starter Box itself is a "complete game" and (2) that the Starter Box is absolutely to be recommended for purchase by D&D veterans with 'old school' sensibilities.

On point (1):

Quote from: RPGPundit;751907It is by any sane person's definition a complete game.

Quote from: RPGPundit;750947The D&D starter set will in pretty well every respect end up being a better deal than the pathfinder set.

On point (2):

Quote from: trechriron;750808The Box Set is not targeting the grognard market. It's targeting new players. If you are a grognard the $20 buy-in will simply be a preview for YOU (well, US really...). Otherwise, it's a savvy move to making the game more accessible.

Quote from: PUNDIT on GooglePlusI'm not trying to be mysterious; I'm trying to clarify some mistaken ideas, without breaking my NDA.  I'm not a PR guy for wizards of the coast, I'm the fucking RPGPundit, and I'm trying to talk to "my people" here.

I will try to answer questions (or more easily, address claims and state which are categorically mistaken). But what I will say right now is this: instead of dismissing it, if you are an old-school gamer that was considering buying some product from the new line, the one you will probably want to get is the Starter.

(Source (http://therpgpundit.blogspot.nl/2014/05/insider-information-on-new-edition-of.html))

Quote from: RPGPundit;752550From what I have been shown, it seems likely that in the process of the campaign (because the starter set doesn't have just one adventure in it), there will be a lot of opportunity for understanding at least a couple of different ways of framing adventures.
At least some of which will be quite old-school.

Why on earth WotC would stage the release of a new edition by a mix of (1) cryptic Twitter remarks by designers deciphered by (2) a person with partial knowledge parading as 'not a PR spokesperson but in the know', is beyond me. It's quite hysterical, and I must honestly say I'm looking forward to the rest of this PR 'campaign'. It's slowly getting towards 4e times, but I'd prefer if they could revert to doing Youtube interviews and find someone as inept as GamerZer0.

I have a group of friends who I recently promised I would run some "D&D" (by which I meant "a roleplaying game") for for the first time this summer. Suddenly, I'm actually thinking of running actual D&D, which I haven't done for 20 years. This is a superb idea, and it circumvents so much of the bitching and moaning we've seen about the prices, the crippleware factor, the "why would I do it when there's so much out there for free in the OSR". I actually think this is a brilliant move.

So. D&D, eh? Count me in!

This is pretty damn awesome. I have a friend who has been arguing that the iconic core classes were no longer fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard, but instead something like Barbarian, Ranger, Druid and Sorcerer. I've always thought that was insipid of him, and it will be great to be able to show him this. He'll probably stick to Pathfinder, though. Truthfully, I don't think he knows what iconic means.

This might well be D&D again.

awesome news:)

This is terrible news.

I insist on being able to buy  a copy of the basic rules in a box set with some second rate dice and a crayon so I can colour them in myself and I want some cardboard counters and a map of some description.
I want it to cost at least $30.
If they give away all the rules for free download so I can put it on my tablet and it can be updated seamlessly as an evergreen product what can I put on my shelves and what can I give the children in my local area as RPG related gifts. Gary Gygax would turn in his grave if he found out someone was giving away this shit for free.

If they end up offering a print version of this (maybe after the three core are out?) it will be more than I was asking for. I was only hoping for 1-5 or maybe even 1-10 or so. A complete basic game this is. For free. That is a very bold move.

I agree though that the PR campaign sucks. I don't think they need to drum up interest on the net with cryptic bullshit.

Quote from: JasperAK;752909If they end up offering a print version of this (maybe after the three core are out?) it will be more than I was asking for. I was only hoping for 1-5 or maybe even 1-10 or so. A complete basic game this is. For free. That is a very bold move.

I agree though that the PR campaign sucks. I don't think they need to drum up interest on the net with cryptic bullshit.

The silver lining, of course, is that none of the beginners that this game and the Starter Set will bring into the hobby are reading this kerfufflle right now...

Quote from: Windjammer;752904Why on earth WotC would stage the release of a new edition by a mix of (1) cryptic Twitter remarks by designers deciphered by (2) a person with partial knowledge parading as 'not a PR spokesperson but in the know', is beyond me. It's quite hysterical, and I must honestly say I'm looking forward to the rest of this PR 'campaign'. It's slowly getting towards 4e times, but I'd prefer if they could revert to doing Youtube interviews and find someone as inept as GamerZer0.

Because people like us will tell every gamer they know, for FREE!

Quote from: JasperAK;752909If they end up offering a print version of this (maybe after the three core are out?) it will be more than I was asking for. I was only hoping for 1-5 or maybe even 1-10 or so. A complete basic game this is. For free. That is a very bold move.

I agree though that the PR campaign sucks. I don't think they need to drum up interest on the net with cryptic bullshit.

everyone in the online rpg community has been reading and talking about it and no publicity is bad publicity so ....

It strikes me that we may be mistaking their "cryptic bullshit" on the net for just actual leaks because the online rpg community is pestering and speculating so hard. They've been leaking out dribs and drabs of information to this community, and, yes, not doing it so well. But this isn't the actual marketing campaign for the actual market. I think we have yet to see that at all. Thusfar, we only know what we do because we're on here caring about it, which pretty much no-one else is. There are vanishingly few of us, after all, compared to the chunk of the gaming population that WotC actually want to sell this edition to, ie, millions of "casual" gamers. They are actually the norm. We aren't. We're doing this to ourselves ....

Quote from: elfandghost;752882Great plan.

Also, the artwork is very AD&D:

(http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ll_20140527.jpg)

The alt-text on the Wizards page says that art is actually from the Starter Set, but yeah, that's a fun picture.

All they (WotC) need to do now is say they are also bringing out a print version of Dragon magazine!

Quote from: elfandghost;752882Also, the artwork is very AD&D:

(http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ll_20140527.jpg)

And so very Dragon Age:

(http://www.rpg.net/pictures/show-pic.phtml?picid=16741)

And so very Dungeonslayers:

(http://www.fantasywelt.de/images/product_images/popup_images/9468_0.jpg)

What a luck that it probably won't be the cover - I'd prefer something more original, or iconic to D&D.
(Like, a red dragon, or a red idol...)

Quote from: GameDaddy;752893Basic D&D has been available for some time now as a System Reference Document released under the OGL.

Not really. The SDR doesn't tell you the basics of how to play the game, or (more importantly) how to create and advance characters. It's a reference for people who already know the game.

Now that is a bold move. Bravo.

I think it's pretty clear to me now that the Starter Set is not what I thought it was. I've pre-ordered it and will use it (and the new Basic) to give the finalised 5e a whirl with our group. With any luck, WotC will have a batch of new (returning) customers, and the Starter Set will be good enough to gift to younger prospective players.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;752923And so very Dragon Age:
... And so very Dungeonslayers:
...What a luck that it probably won't be the cover - I'd prefer something more original, or iconic to D&D.

Actually, the image did remind me of the cover art for the revised FR box, if only for the blue-ish background swirl:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/Forgotten_Realms_Campaign_Setting_Revised_Cover.jpg)

Quote from: elfandghost;752882Great plan.

Also, the artwork is very AD&D:

(http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ll_20140527.jpg)

Yes, this is the kind of cover I wanted to see on the new PHB! :) Nice.

This approach to a Basic set is pretty cool, actually. I love the idea of a version of the game that will retain a narrow, focused approach to classes (and presumably rules). It is basically an anti-bloat insurance policy. Three years from now, when the inevitable 5E Complete Guide to Dragonborn Spell-Slinger's comes out, I will still have a bunker of sanity I can crawl into, and, miraculously, it will involve an in-print game. Someone on this team has their head screwed on straight.

Quote from: Warthur;752920The alt-text on the Wizards page says that art is actually from the Starter Set

Ah, rats. :(

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;752923And so very Dragon Age:

(http://www.rpg.net/pictures/show-pic.phtml?picid=16741)

And so very Dungeonslayers:

(http://www.fantasywelt.de/images/product_images/popup_images/9468_0.jpg)

What a luck that it probably won't be the cover - I'd prefer something more original, or iconic to D&D.
(Like, a red dragon, or a red idol...)

With some of this:

(http://blog.gamesparadise.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/WH1-pic.png)

...and a dash of this!

(http://mykecole.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/B2.jpg)

Not bad!  Not bad at all!

Quote from: Marleycat;752864Mearls already said it's possible they sell it in book form. Which means it will happen in no less than 2-5 years maximum. Basic will be available when the starter set is. I'm even thinking of downloading it and printing it off.

Actually only character creation will be available with the launch of the starter set. Other content will be added as the core books are released, more play rules in Aug with the PHB, monsters with the MM and DM material with the DMG.

Slow release of digital material is worth it if that's what it takes to ensure compatibility with the hardback versions.

The basic content outlined in the announcement is more than I ever thought would be release as free demo material. The intent has the potential to generate a lot of goodwill, but the execution will be everything.

The WOTC track record with digital content isn't very good. When Dragon magazine first went digital things started going to shit. No print needing to get out the door meant later and lazier offerings. Eventually, the idea of a cohesive online issue was dropped and content was just sprinkled here and there whenever and collected once a month. Keep in mind this was content that customers were paying for. How much care and consistency can be expected of a digital "product" that generates ZERO revenue?

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;752853Okay, now I'm interested.  This new Basic D&D, as described, is what I've said should be the core of the game for years; four classes, four races, up to 20th level, stripped of setting stuff, mission-critical rules only.  That WotC will give this away (in PDF) ensures that skeptics like me will download it and try it; smart move.

yep, agreed :hmm:

Quote from: Exploderwizard;752939Actually only character creation will be available with the launch of the starter set. Other content will be added as the core books are released, more play rules in Aug with the PHB, monsters with the MM and DM material with the DMG.

My reading of the article is that chargen will be released with the starter set, and the monster and DM stuff will be out in August with the PHB.

I'm curious to see how this would tie into an OGL.  Would they have one, and if so, only limited to the Basic version?

Quote from: LibraryLass;752947My reading of the article is that chargen will be released with the starter set, and the monster and DM stuff will be out in August with the PHB.

That's my understanding too. Practically speaking, the text for the MM and DMG will probably have to be finalised by the time the PHB comes out anyway and part of the point of Basic's MM/DMG content would be to allow people to get as much use out of the PHB as they can before the full MM and DMG come out.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;752951I'm curious to see how this would tie into an OGL.  Would they have one, and if so, only limited to the Basic version?

I'm guessing they will have a license that allows you to create content for D&D, but not reprint any of the rules, allowing you to only refer back to the Basic D&D PDF.  Which makes sense.  It allows people to create stuff for D&D, but not let people take over D&D (as with Pathfinder).  I think people that love the SRD will be disappointed, ultimately, in what WotC will offer with 5E.  But most of the fans will be plenty happy, because most fans really didn't care much about the SRD beyond having the basic rules easily accessible.

Yeah I think we're going to see a Basic edition OGL (that is expressly not combinable with the old OGL) making the content in the MM, DMG, and PHB that isn't released for Basic the proprietary content.

Which isn't much different from 3e.  There was always proprietary content in those books, it was just sort of a hodge-podge of in or out.  This way would be cleaner.

Good, now back to discussion of what actually matters for folks like us: the solidity of the rules and gameplay paradigms.

Quote from: Windjammer;752904I think this can't be overstated. Pundit et al's attempts to read WotC's tea leaves has led to some of the most misleading expectations about Next's product content yet.... blah blah blah .... .

On point 2) My argument is that gronards might want to pick it up to TEACH D&D to new players. I was not recommending it for the sake of nostalgia. I'm arguing that the complete game DOES NOT need to include character generation to start. The Starter Set is part of an RPG LINE, and as it's described is complete. You can play the game with it. Now you not only will be able to download character creation but a Basic game for free. I find, in this modern day, that griping about parts of game being downloaded versus in "the box" to be absurd. Hell, I have several board games with printed versions of updated rules.

It's a point of disagreement NOT some secret agenda to "sell D&D 5e at all costs". It is simply my opinion. Which I have stated at great length. Your childish attempts to restate it for me doesn't change my actual opinion.

Also, I don't speak for Pundit so I find it odd you included me in a long string of Pundit quotes. I make my own opinions. Sometimes different people here fall on different sides of those opinions. It's something I thoroughly enjoy about theRPGsite.

Further, if I can read tweets, press releases, and forum posts to come to a conclusion, certainly you (or the other throngs of RPG enthusiasts) can't be bound to The Pundit, or these forums for a singular source of news. How one person's opinions and conjecture become "misleading" is ridiculous. No one is trying to trick anybody. Are you suggesting you don't have your wits about you? Worse, are you suggesting the readers of theRPGsite need your "brilliant" finger pointing to keep theirs?

Quote from: Obeeron;752978I'm guessing they will have a license that allows you to create content for D&D, but not reprint any of the rules, allowing you to only refer back to the Basic D&D PDF.  Which makes sense.  It allows people to create stuff for D&D, but not let people take over D&D (as with Pathfinder).  I think people that love the SRD will be disappointed, ultimately, in what WotC will offer with 5E.  But most of the fans will be plenty happy, because most fans really didn't care much about the SRD beyond having the basic rules easily accessible.

I think it may allow some limited reprinting of monster stats for convenience but yeah, that sounds about right. They may even allow distribution of the unaltered Basic D&D PDF (to make good on the "free forever" promise) but not allow print products thereof, so people don't knock off third party basic rulebooks.

Ultimately this would only be an inconvenience if you actually want to make a full-blown game based off Basic 5th, and even then I suspect you could get reasonably close with the existing SRD anyway except for novel mechanics like advantage/disadvantage (and it's trivial enough to reword the explanation of those so that it falls outside copyright). So actually, the only thing it'd really stop you doing is producing something based off Basic 5th and use the Dungeons & Dragons name to promote it, which you've never really been allowed to do anyway.

This is the news that broke the haters at EnWorld.

I seriously have not seen this level of "Woah, cool!" at that message board in at least 5-6 years.

It got almost the same level of response at the WOTC boards also, though at least two haters did find a way to spin a free game as a negative.

Here are some sample haters, for anyone curious what I am talking about:

Quote from: Person_ManFree to Download Basic D&D does not equal OGL or SRD.

3rd party publishers and homebrewers will be unable to support 5E without infringing on Hasbro's copyright.

And "Basic" could be extremely stripped down version of the game that's basically unplayable unless everyone at the table is playing Basic D&D.  If 5E depends heavily on "optional" rules modules, and Basic 5E doesn't contain any of those modules, then it's very difficult to impossible for a new player to read the free Basic rules, and then sit down and play with a group of "Advanced" players that use multiple modules.  Basic 5E and Advanced 5E will essentially be two different games.

This is just a bone that they're throwing the old fan base in the form of a free giveaway that will be useless to most players new 6 months after it's released.  It is not a return to the glory days of the OGL/SRD, otherwise they would have announced an OGL/SRD.

Quote from: ChakravantWow. We've gone from "All classes are equal. Some are just more equal than others." to "All subclasses are equal. Some are just more equal than others.". How many times can we entrench the bias of a select few to the detriment of the IP before this kind of preferential treatment to their favorite classes is seen for what it is? How much pigeon holing and marginalization of people's playstyles is enough? 5E has gone from "big tent" D&D to "If you don't like it, tough" D&D before the product has even been released.

OK. THIS is total bullshit. The both of them.

No kidding. If online forums were broadly representative of the hobby I'd weep for the future of humanity.

Quote from: Bobloblah;753043No kidding. If online forums were broadly representative of the hobby I'd weep for the future of humanity.

I don't think there would be any humanity left to have a future if that were the case.

HA! Too true.

Quote from: Mistwell;752827Mearls tweeted today he is considering it.

link? If this happens, then yea, the starter set is not even on my radar. I'll give this out. OK, OK, mayabe together with the starter.

Quote from: dar;753058link? If this happens, then yea, the starter set is not even on my radar. I'll give this out. OK, OK, mayabe together with the starter.

Here is the quote (4:51 PM - 25 May 2014)

@solodug  any chance the online free pdf of 15% of the PHB will be avalable for POD at cost? I would love to have a copy at the table.
‏@mikemearls  good idea - we'll look into it

Sounds interesting (and clever), I'll give it a look. Sounds like a good way to play 5e for free. If I wanted to DM I think I'd want a decent-looking hardcopy of "Basic D&D" though.

I don't see the RPG Pundit's victory lap anywhere in this thread.  Delete it.  ;)

But seriously, who wants to create a homemade D&D effigy and have sex with it tonight?  Just me?  Ok.  But remember, if you don't help glue on the scales, you don't get to sloppy-share the sex hole.

VS

Quote from: Windjammer;752904I think this can't be overstated. Pundit et al's attempts to read WotC's tea leaves has led to some of the most misleading expectations about Next's product content yet.

More precisely: what decisively led to the expectations set for the Starter Box on this site was caused by a series of Pundit's statements, premised on his being (explicitly) the only person 'in the know' ("My position (again, the ONLY actually INFORMED rather than speculative position here) ..."), that (1) the Starter Box itself is a "complete game" and (2) that the Starter Box is absolutely to be recommended for purchase by D&D veterans with 'old school' sensibilities.

I didn't need to read tea leaves, because I actually knew what was planned.

Now, my recommendations on the Starter Set are because (in the first place) the starter set's rules ARE the Basic Rules.  Second, when it first comes out, to play the Basic Rules you'd need the PDF (which will initially have character-creation material only) plus the rules in the Starter Set.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jibbajibba;752908This is terrible news.

I insist on being able to buy  a copy of the basic rules in a box set with some second rate dice and a crayon so I can colour them in myself and I want some cardboard counters and a map of some description.
I want it to cost at least $30.
If they give away all the rules for free download so I can put it on my tablet and it can be updated seamlessly as an evergreen product what can I put on my shelves and what can I give the children in my local area as RPG related gifts. Gary Gygax would turn in his grave if he found out someone was giving away this shit for free.

You win this thread!