Quote from: Warthur;752835In fact, I note that Tyranny of Dragons takes the PCs up to 15th Level and is meant to be playable just by purchasing the Starter Set and modules, so presumably the Basic PDF will be what lets you do that.

Presumably the reason they aren't simply leading with a printed Basic is that it's condensed from the PHB, DMG and MM, and those are still being finalised.

Correct sir.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;752834This seems too good to be true. If all the core stuff is available for free or $20... Why the books?  For completeness' sake?

No for different levels of play like before 3/4e. When I got in (1/2e) it was modular you could be basic or go hog wild.

Quote from: Marleycat;752840No for different levels of play like before 3/4e. When I got in (1/2e) it was modular you could be basic or go hog wild.

If anything, this'll be even better because there won't be the weird system differences like the different AC scales and assumed hit point totals between the basic and advanced game.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really clever response to Pathfinder and the OSR. Make the basic game free, and then you sell your products on the strength of the exclusive options you build into them and on the strength of the adventures and setting content and other stuff which people can't just swipe via the OGL.

Quote from: Warthur;752843If anything, this'll be even better because there won't be the weird system differences like the different AC scales and assumed hit point totals between the basic and advanced game.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really clever response to Pathfinder and the OSR. Make the basic game free, and then you sell your products on the strength of the exclusive options you build into them and on the strength of the adventures and setting content and other stuff which people can't just swipe via the OGL.

Yep. I love the fact I get to play a current supported Dnd again that's simpler then Pathfinder and even FantasyCraft.

I may even try to run a Dnd game.:eek!

The monster stuff I usually messed up though.

I tend to freeform alot because of my Mage roots.

Quote from: Warthur;752843The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really clever response to Pathfinder and the OSR. Make the basic game free, and then you sell your products on the strength of the exclusive options you build into them and on the strength of the adventures and setting content and other stuff which people can't just swipe via the OGL.

It seems to work for the OSR games, many having free core rules and a bunch of adventures to buy. Fanzines with various options.

Okay, now I'm interested.  This new Basic D&D, as described, is what I've said should be the core of the game for years; four classes, four races, up to 20th level, stripped of setting stuff, mission-critical rules only.  That WotC will give this away (in PDF) ensures that skeptics like me will download it and try it; smart move.

Quote from: jeff37923;752823So if WotC didn't think that the Starter Set was crippleware without chargen, then why create the Basic Set?

The starter set is to get new DMs up and running. The basic rules are to keep them going, and hopefully, they'll like it all enough to eventually make the transition to full blown addicts.

Free is good marketing. I may not think much of 5e so far and I certainly think their PR so far is retarded, but the "Basic D&D" freebie is smart stuff.

EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

Quote from: Scott Anderson;752834This seems too good to be true. If all the core stuff is available for free or $20... Why the books?  For completeness' sake?

Anyone who likes the game will buy the core books and as the OSR knows, its easy to introduce a free game to new people. Also, the PDF is the "try before you buy" since the PDF only includes the bare bones and the book promises you loads of goodies more. And there's the current preference toward dead tree by consumers.

Quote from: Spinachcat;752858EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

Since you're already an experienced gamer, you probably don't.

On the other hand, the basic PDF won't include a chunky campaign covering the first few levels of play which you can use to pick up and start playing straight away, or pregens, or (obviously) physical dice. The Starter Set has all of those, plus a very simple rundown of the rules the players need at levels 1-5. That's actually a very valuable tool for someone who hasn't gamed before to help them grasp the concepts covered in the basic PDF, give them some fully fleshed-out examples of adventure design, and give them resources to start playing within minutes of opening the box, before they even read the entire Basic PDF.

In other words, the starter kit seems to be designed to turn kids with no prior D&D experience into DMs.

Quote from: Spinachcat;752858EXCEPT...why do I want a Starter Box when I can get a free PDF???

Been saying for days, the Starter box is not intended as "the game" it's intended as "the introduction for the new DM on how to run a game".  That's different concepts.  They were never trying to sell YOU the Starter box. People just got all pissed in a "damn you let me give you my money" sort of way, thinking they wanted to pay for a Basic edition and conflated that concept with the Stater box.

I am getting a Starter box to give away to someone in hopes they will check it out and want to grab the PDF and then want to buy more shit, sort of easing them into the warm water and then slowly setting it to boil.   Maybe you don't want to do that - then don't buy the Starter box.  But pretty damn sure you are not a new DM needing a boxed set to introduce you to how to DM, with some basic adventures to get you started.

Haven't Mistwell, myself, and Sacrosanct been saying this already? So confused I am.

Quote from: Mistwell;752860People just got all pissed in a "damn you let me give you my money" sort of way, thinking they wanted to pay for a Basic edition and conflated that concept with the Stater box.

Because some tried to imply (or allowed others to infer) that the 'Starter Box' was a complete game... and then it wasn't.
I'd still pay them for a boxed version of this Basic thing, the version that will be out in August.

Quote from: Simlasa;752863Because some tried to imply the 'Starter Box' was a complete game... and then it wasn't.
I'd still pay them for a boxed version of this Basic thing, the version that will be out in August.

Mearls already said it's possible they sell it in book form. Which means it will happen in no less than 2-5 years maximum. Basic will be available when the starter set is. I'm even thinking of downloading it and printing it off.

Quote from: Mistwell;752827Mearls tweeted today he is considering it.

Now THAT would be interesting. I mean it.

Good move!

The 1e AD&D reprints, the re-release of OOP PDFs (in cleaned up form), and now this.  It looks like WotC went through some de-dickification therapy a couple of years ago.

I'd love a print version.  Hope that happens.