Quote from: Beagle;766669A better way would be to reset the inspiration points at the end of each session and to translate unspent points into XP.

   Numerous systems have tried this in some form or another. It usually winds up encouraging hoarding, since the rewards of XP are usually so much more long-lasting than the rewards of spending Character Points/bennies/inspiration/etc.

  As for Inspiration itself, it feels to me like a streamlined version of Pendragon's Traits and Passions, and I don't know if I've ever heard anyone complain that those interfere with roleplaying. But I don't share the "Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise Actor stance/immersion" approach of some here.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;766732Never compromise Actor stance/immersion" approach of some here.

The non-strawman version goes "You don't teach roleplaying by not roleplaying."  That's the actual argument.

Back to sackcloth for you.

Quote from: Bill;766572Dnd has worked just fine for me for 35 years of heavy gaming.

I just don't see a reason to add mechanics for roleplay.

Cool.  And over that 35 years, we've internalized a lot of things that, if you look at them with fresh eyes, don't make sense.

If Inspiration had been in B/X I don't think anybody today would have an issue with it.

Quote from: CRKrueger;766574It probably won't surprise you if I tell you that when we played, we never knew exactly the dimensions of the area we were in, and dropping the fireball exactly where you wanted it was an Int check.

Not at all.  It was an example.

How about "I know if I run between here and there, that there's no way the guy with a crossbow can kill me".

Quote from: CRKrueger;766574I think you might agree that as such it's not a Roleplaying tool, but more of a nod to Fate-like game players.

I think you are using "roleplaying tool" more strictly than I would.

If Bob is in love with Jane (and has a bond saying so), then it's totally in character for Bob to go to the rescue of Jane.  That's roleplaying.  The GM tossing him an inspiration token for doing so doesn't change that.

Now, if Bob's player is just looking over his sheet for ways to get Inspiration, and happens upon that one, is it roleplaying?  Maybe, maybe not - but I'd argue it's at least closer to "roleplaying" than what we'd see from this hypothetical player *without* it.

Quote from: Saint&Sinner;766722There are a lot of similarities to Fate but you're way off on Dungeon World.  It has nothing like this mechanic at all.  The mechanics in DW directly go to the action.  Its very immersive that way.

Hell, DW doesn't even have *initiative*.

Quote from: robiswrong;766755Cool.  And over that 35 years, we've internalized a lot of things that, if you look at them with fresh eyes, don't make sense.

If Inspiration had been in B/X I don't think anybody today would have an issue with it.



Not at all.  It was an example.

How about "I know if I run between here and there, that there's no way the guy with a crossbow can kill me".



I think you are using "roleplaying tool" more strictly than I would.

If Bob is in love with Jane (and has a bond saying so), then it's totally in character for Bob to go to the rescue of Jane.  That's roleplaying.  The GM tossing him an inspiration token for doing so doesn't change that.

Now, if Bob's player is just looking over his sheet for ways to get Inspiration, and happens upon that one, is it roleplaying?  Maybe, maybe not - but I'd argue it's at least closer to "roleplaying" than what we'd see from this hypothetical player *without* it.



Hell, DW doesn't even have *initiative*.

I have tossed out rules that don't make sense to me, and or, do not improve my game experience for about 33 of those 35 years.  
The fact I disagree with the concept and effect of doling out good roleplay awards has nothing to do with 'Fresh Eyes'

I could as easily say 'blind acceptance of whatever is in the rulebook' as a counter to 'Fresh Eyes'

But I don't like that argument any more than the fresh eyes argument.

Its really about what works for each player.

Quote from: Bill;766764Its really about what works for each player.

That's the ultimate test, right?

But I do think that a component of "what works" is "what we're used to".  That doesn't mean that any given mechanic might not have been tossed out along the way.

Quote from: robiswrong;766775That's the ultimate test, right?

But I do think that a component of "what works" is "what we're used to".  That doesn't mean that any given mechanic might not have been tossed out along the way.

There's also a gap between 'not right for me' and 'bad for everyone'.

Quote from: CRKrueger;766741The non-strawman version goes "You don't teach roleplaying by not roleplaying."  That's the actual argument.

Sure is silly, but so is the pomposity in the first place of the righteous pushers of what doesn't need to be pushed. There's plenty to mock (in a Snark Line*hoggin' and MCBLT-friendly way, of course).

Wait, am I a sandwich now?

Do a little dance
Make a little lunch
Get down tonight

Ain't hatin' on the playas
With the Forgy plan
Everybody got to get down
With a boogie man

Boogie man, boogie man
Turn us on

Do a little dance
Make a little lunch
Get down tonight
Get down tonight

Ain't hatin' on the playas
With the Forgy plan
Everybody got to get down
With a boogie man

Boogie man, boogie man
Turn us on

Quote from: mcbobbo;766778There's also a gap between 'not right for me' and 'bad for everyone'.

And a gap between "I like vanilla, you like chocolate." Which is subjective and "Vanilla=/=Chocolate", which is not.

Then there's the argument everyone makes in their heads concerning non-argued value judgements.

Quote from: mcbobbo;766778There's also a gap between 'not right for me' and 'bad for everyone'.

Indeed.

As well as between "good for me" and "good for everyone".

I think the better way of stating it is possibly thus.

Inspiration in and of itself is neither good nor bad. Its application and impact could be either or neither. It can be visualized in various ways in game or out.

What it is though is one more mechanic to track when one allready existed. Mainly EXP for good RPing which has been with the game since the start in one form or another.

And that is where it bugs me minorly. Its an extra mechanic on top of an existing one. Or as in MMO parlance, its an extra in game currency.

Why not have simply given players the ability to gift EXP their own with others if they liked something they did? Or just said tip your friend an item or first loot choice next time?
Simple and functions with existing mechanics rather than creating a new one

Inspiration is neet and easy. But so are the other methods.

Do XP rewards for good roleplaying really make a difference within the D&D context, though? In most forms I've seen, they've been so small that beyond the first couple of levels, they really make very little difference to a character's rate of advancement. And with the loss of XP for gold and the unified progression table of later editions, XP gains and advancement are so uniform that you'd really need to hand out huge chunks to make a difference. In other systems (like the d6 Star Wars game I'm playing in right now), it works, but there XP/CP gain is far smaller and more discrete, so that 1 or 2 extra points makes a difference but doesn't dramatically shift character abilities. In D&D, it feels like a carrot that doesn't really mean much of anything.

  And different reward systems for roleplaying apparently have precedent going back to Blackmoor, according to Arneson's notes in Heroic Worlds.

Quote from: robiswrong;766844Indeed.

As well as between "good for me" and "good for everyone".

Quote from: Omega;766898Inspiration in and of itself is neither good nor bad. Its application and impact could be either or neither.

Yes, this is underscored by the behavioralist arguments I was making earlier.  If you 'carrot' things you don't want, you'll see more behavior you don't want.  That's pretty clear.  If you 'carrot' things you DO want, there's pretty much no drawback (outside of conflicting with your personal tastes).

The maximum negative impact should be nil, and as the experiments show, if you really thought it was generating bad roleplaying you could stop doing it and behaviors will revert on their own.

So it might not be 'good', but 'bad' is too harsh a term for a 'carrot', from everything I know about reinforcement.

Quote from: Omega;766898Why not have simply given players the ability to gift EXP their own with others if they liked something they did?

Like I said before, I don't think there's enough XP in the levels to accommodate that.  There's nothing in Basic or the Starter about granting XP for good roleplaying, and I suspect that's by design.

But it's just a suspicion.  We'll know more in November when the DMG comes out, or when they update Basic.