I am in the mood for some sword & sorcery goodness possibly with a mix of weird fantasy as well. 

To accomplish this tone, I have it narrowed down pretty much to 2 games.

Barbarians of Lemuria Mythic Edition or Hyperborea 3e.

Which would you choose and why? Which do you find more fun.  Setting and mechanics are fair discussion.

Love BoL but if I wanted a grittier and more in-depth game that has a lot of flavor I'd probably go for Hyperborea.

I also love the character classes in Hyper.

My advice is to use Lemuria. 

I don't have much experience in either system other than reading over the two game rulebooks, so take my advice with a healthy dose of skepticism. 

I just like the Lemuria rules a bit better.  In particular I like using a couple of previous careers in the PC's past as catch-all instead of dozens of individual skills.  Such as being a "farmer", then using that career bonus to add to your haggling for a horse you want to buy today.  It makes sense that somebody who used to farm knows a lot about animals, while a former slave-gladiator-pirate probably knows nothing about horses. 

I have no experience with Barbarians of Lemuria, but I'm running a Hyperborea campaign right now. If you're new to it, the system is straightforward enough, especially if you've played AD&D or OSRIC. The setting is a blend of CAS, Lovecraft, and Howard. Like the primary deity is lifted straight out of The Door to Saturn. The setting is deep and you could play it for years and you can easily incorporate more lore from the aforementioned authors. There's a lot of "here be dragons" space and room for whatever type of S&S adventure you want to run, i.e., with aliens and forgotten ancient tech or without.

I backed ASSH 2nd and ASSH 3rd (which is now Hyperborea I suppose), just got the new books not that long ago. Two volumes, tons of stuff. It's definitely S&S with a lot of exposition. Barbarians of Lemuria is much, much leaner and there is more implication than specifics.

Which one you should use depends solely on how much work you want to put into the game. If you like having a fairly concrete game world with a lot of stuff that sets the mood (ASSH classes are pretty evocative), then I'd go with ASSH. If you're more minimalist and enjoy "discovery through play" as a DM, then BoL is the way to go. As much as I like reading ASSH/Hyperborea, I ran my own short-lived S&S game just using White Box Swords and Wizardy and stole some of the better parts for lore and locations.

I've been playing in a biweekly ASSH 2e game for the last year and a half or so. Haven't played Barbarians of Lemurie ME, but one of the DMs I play with has been waffling on running it for like a year, so I'm pretty familiar with the book. 

Pros and cons either way, but for me it's a question of tone.

Hyperborea is definitely the more full-featured RPG. Not only does it have a bunch of class options and a very complete ruleset, but it comes with all the magic items, spell lists, bestiary etc., as well as a hex map of the entire setting. The setting itself fits very well into the "weird fantasy" genre, with all the weird weather, outer gods, alien technology etc.  The downside is that despite the fluff text, in actual play it's still basically just AD&D. Others disagree, but for me the AD&D basic structure with its spell slots, niche classes, AC and emphasis on magical gear, simply can't do the kind of heroic swords-vs-sorcery you get in a Conan or Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser story, at least on the PC side. The classic S&S hero is a multi-skilled generalist who doesn't need magic weapons and rarely wears armor.

BOLME is a much lighter and less well-featured game, but its looser character creation rules and archetypes probably means it's a better game for making S&S heroes as PCs.  As others have pointed out, the lighter rules might also mean it's easier to run at the table. I also think the "build-your-own-spell" system is probably a better match for S&S than the now very well known D&D spell list. On the flip side, its very much geared up for a more Howardian, alternative historical setting, and might not handle the weird stuff quite as well. 

Short version: If you want your game to feel more like Clark Ashton Smith or HP Lovecraft, go with Hyperborea. If you want it to feel more like Robert E Howard or Fritz Leiber, I'd go with Lemuria.

How hard to run and generally crunch/rules heavy is Hyperborea?

Quote from: Batjon on January 03, 2023, 09:07:10 PM
How hard to run and generally crunch/rules heavy is Hyperborea?

About as complicated as B/X, I'd think. Others may have differing opinions, but it's a pretty typical OSR-type game.

I haven't played BoL, but I have 2nd & 3rd edition Hyperborea and yeah, it's basically house-ruled AD&D.  In fact, you could play it straight up that way as we did with pretty much zero modifications.  The thickness of the rulebook comes from the 26 classes and subclasses, tons of spells, a robust bestiary featuring lots of Lovecraftian & CAS monsters, extremely detailed (and awesome) treasure and magic item lists, and tons of setting info.  So if you've got experience with AD&D and like the rules, it's a snap.  We don't really play in Hyperborea these days, but I still use the classes, monsters, spells, etc., in other OSR games.

The books are bigger and pricier than Lemuria and they switched from one massive book to two fair sized hardcovers and a gazetteer, which was a mistake IMO, but that's a matter of personal taste.

I've gone back and skimmed over the two rulebooks I have.  ASSH is 2nd edition.  Lemuria is the current Mythic edition.

Yeah. I stand by what I said.  Lemuria is the game I prefer. 

The thing is that Hyborea is just basic D&D.  Let's call a spade a spade.  It's got a few small tweaks, like armor having a fixed damage reduction of a few hit points, but Hyborea has all the same rules you find in any OSR.  It's D&D.  And it's so close to D&D you may as well play 5E. 

Lemuria is a unique set of rules.  It uses only D6 dice.  Usually 2D6, looking to roll a 9+.  Sometimes you roll more due to character boons and flaws. Boons and flaws are more dice, but you still only choose two. A flaw means you discard the best D6 from that roll.  Hit points are fixed at 10.  Characters get a Defense Rating that is subtracted from any attack roll against them, and armor is a damage reduction dice roll, such as light armor reducing damage by 1D6-3 points. 

So, it's no secret I'm not a fan of D&D style rules, so Barbarians of Lemuria is the clear choice for me. 

D&D, as a system, only works for D&D. So this contest has an automatic winner, IMO.

I really can't say which one I'd pick. Other than I have one of them, but don't have the other. 

It's not on your list but here are three good S&S RPGs that would be really good as game resources.

Crypts &Things Remastered
Shadow, Sword and Spells 2e
Through Sunken Lands

All 3 are really good and each have something different that can enhance any sword and sorcery rpg. C&TR is based on Swords and Wizardry. SS&S2e has its own d12 system but it has an amazing domain and kingdom building system for later gameplay. And TSL is an OSR adjacent game that combines character creation with some world and map building that can be used by a GM to help build up your own setting and it's phenomenal for easing new players into gaming.

Not on your list, but there's a brand new game called "Swords & Chaos" which is essentially a mashup of Castles & Crusades and DCC.  I haven't received my hard copy yet from the KS, but it has a few interesting elements, though in my opinion it still hews too closely to the AD&D spell system, even including many of the old spells simply with new names.

Hell, I think you could do S&S fairly well with DCC; just cut out the demi-human classes. 

Quote from: RebelSky on January 04, 2023, 08:29:20 AM
Through Sunken Lands

This is the one I was thinking of and couldn't remember the name...have the PDF, still need to order the hardcopy. I am a fan of Beyond the Wall, and think the S&S treatment in TSL is pretty great. Honestly if I had to pick one S&S game to run, this would probably be it.