BAIZUO (pazio) Going Union! The beginning of the end!?

Mistwell · October 16, 2021, 11:17:45 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 16, 2021, 08:32:04 AM
I think it's really nice of these lads to post a list of all their names so Paizo know exactly who to sack.

That would be rather illegal.

There is an entire separate legal system for labor relations matters involving unions with its own separate court system and everything. Unless you're really old, union busting has been illegal your entire life. Firing people for trying to form a union is basically the #1 no-no for those laws.

dkabq · October 16, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on October 16, 2021, 12:37:51 AM
Where do you get that idea? A lot of it's made in China, and China doesn't have unions.

From UnionPlus: DID YOU KNOW THAT ALL HASBRO BRANDED GAMES AND TOYS ARE ALL UNION-MADE?

I believe Hasbro employees are mostly unionized under the AFL-CIO. For example, a lot is made in Pennsylvania, as explained by their AFL-CIO here.

Interesting. I never would have guessed that.

I noticed that DnD/WotC are not listed. As most of their product is printed material, I wonder how much comes from China vs. domestic vs. union?

dkabq · October 16, 2021, 11:21:34 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2021, 11:17:45 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on October 16, 2021, 08:32:04 AM
I think it's really nice of these lads to post a list of all their names so Paizo know exactly who to sack.

That would be rather illegal.

There is an entire separate legal system for labor relations matters involving unions with its own separate court system and everything. Unless you're really old, union busting has been illegal your entire life. Firing people for trying to form a union is basically the #1 no-no for those laws.

True. And yet companies (e.g., Amazon) still do that under the pretense of violation of one or more HR policies.

Mistwell · October 16, 2021, 11:25:59 AM

Quote from: dkabq on October 16, 2021, 11:18:29 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on October 16, 2021, 12:37:51 AM
Where do you get that idea? A lot of it's made in China, and China doesn't have unions.

From UnionPlus: DID YOU KNOW THAT ALL HASBRO BRANDED GAMES AND TOYS ARE ALL UNION-MADE?

I believe Hasbro employees are mostly unionized under the AFL-CIO. For example, a lot is made in Pennsylvania, as explained by their AFL-CIO here.

Interesting. I never would have guessed that.

I noticed that DnD/WotC are not listed. As most of their product is printed material, I wonder how much comes from China vs. domestic vs. union?

As far as I know WOTC is not unionized, just parts of the toys and games unit of Hasbro. I was more saying I don't think Hasbro would consider it the end of the world if WOTC did try to unionize given they've worked with unions for generations now.

With the current transportation problems involving the ports (which is impacting my company by the way - get back to work Pete Buttigieg), I wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro sees increased sales this Christmas due to their Made-In-America portions of the company, since they will have product on the shelves when some of their competitors will not.

dkabq · October 16, 2021, 11:40:19 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2021, 11:25:59 AM
Quote from: dkabq on October 16, 2021, 11:18:29 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on October 16, 2021, 12:37:51 AM
Where do you get that idea? A lot of it's made in China, and China doesn't have unions.

From UnionPlus: DID YOU KNOW THAT ALL HASBRO BRANDED GAMES AND TOYS ARE ALL UNION-MADE?

I believe Hasbro employees are mostly unionized under the AFL-CIO. For example, a lot is made in Pennsylvania, as explained by their AFL-CIO here.

Interesting. I never would have guessed that.

I noticed that DnD/WotC are not listed. As most of their product is printed material, I wonder how much comes from China vs. domestic vs. union?

As far as I know WOTC is not unionized, just parts of the toys and games unit of Hasbro. I was more saying I don't think Hasbro would consider it the end of the world if WOTC did try to unionize given they've worked with unions for generations now.

With the current transportation problems involving the ports (which is impacting my company by the way - get back to work Pete Buttigieg), I wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro sees increased sales this Christmas due to their Made-In-America portions of the company, since they will have product on the shelves when some of their competitors will not.

Good point about Hasbro vs. union.

It will be interesting to see who gets burned by the supply chain this Christmas. In our house, we are stocking up and buying early.

hedgehobbit · October 16, 2021, 11:59:42 AM

Quote from: Horace on October 15, 2021, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on October 15, 2021, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: BAIZUO Contractors of the World UNITE! on October 15, 2021, 09:37:36 PM
...a specific list of demands. They wanted Paizo to hire a diversity officer, for example...
Ah yes, because nothing benefits workers more than adding another overpaid sinecure to the management bureaucracy.

Freelancers are demanding that Paizo hire an employee who's sole job is to give their work to someone else.

dkabq · October 16, 2021, 12:59:14 PM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 16, 2021, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: Horace on October 15, 2021, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on October 15, 2021, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: BAIZUO Contractors of the World UNITE! on October 15, 2021, 09:37:36 PM
...a specific list of demands. They wanted Paizo to hire a diversity officer, for example...
Ah yes, because nothing benefits workers more than adding another overpaid sinecure to the management bureaucracy.

Freelancers are demanding that Paizo hire an employee who's sole job is to give their work to someone else.

The cost of that person would reduce the available profits which the unionizers want a bigger piece of.

Jaeger · October 16, 2021, 06:30:21 PM

UPDATE: UNITED PAIZO WORKERS SAYS TRANS RIGHTS

Why?

Because.. umm, uhh, WTF, hell if I know!

Anyway, they Transplain:
https://unitedpaizoworkers.org/2021/10/15/united-paizo-workers-says-trans-rights/

Quote from: BAIZUO Tranny's of the World UNITE! on October 15, 2021, 09:37:36 PM
Some of you have noticed that in our announcements about the formation of United Paizo Workers (UPW), we haven't gone into detail about the accusations toward Paizo leadership that have circulated over the past month. This isn't because we don't believe them or don't take them seriously; instead, our focus has been on building momentum and sharing the positives the union will bring to our team.

That being said, we have had some folks ask where we stand on the allegations of transphobia at Paizo. We'd like to take a moment to state firmly that UPW is a pro-trans union, with a fair number of trans people on the roster, including in the organizing committee. We believe unionizing is the best way forward to protecting trans employees (and all employees) at Paizo, and we regard all accusations of transphobia with the utmost seriousness. No one is safe and represented until we all are, and that's what forming a union is all about.

Thank you all so much for your tremendous outpouring of love and support over the past couple days. Stay strong and don't split the party!

Baizuo is so fucked...

Quote from: dkabq on October 16, 2021, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 16, 2021, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: Horace on October 15, 2021, 11:45:50 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on October 15, 2021, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: BAIZUO Contractors of the World UNITE! on October 15, 2021, 09:37:36 PM
...a specific list of demands. They wanted Paizo to hire a diversity officer, for example...
Ah yes, because nothing benefits workers more than adding another overpaid sinecure to the management bureaucracy.
Freelancers are demanding that Paizo hire an employee who's sole job is to give their work to someone else.
The cost of that person would reduce the available profits which the unionizers want a bigger piece of.

Hey, what's with you guys and all this basic economics 101 stuff!?

This is about the United Baizuo Workers attaining financial equity through unity. Why are you guys all over them with this white supremist math shit!?

Show a little respect for the struggle!

Shrieking Banshee · October 16, 2021, 06:39:39 PM

Any chance of this union being halfway competent is now gone.

oggsmash · October 16, 2021, 08:01:01 PM

Quote from: dkabq on October 15, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on October 15, 2021, 11:54:49 AM
Quote from: dkabq on October 15, 2021, 09:43:17 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on October 15, 2021, 08:59:44 AM
Quote from: dkabq on October 15, 2021, 08:20:39 AM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on October 15, 2021, 03:32:42 AM
Nothing good about unions.

A collective bargaining agreement can keep your employer from being able to force you to get vaccinated (e.g., Teachers Unions -- ironically).

So can growing a set of balls.

Unfortunately "growing a set of balls" won't keep you employed when you refuse to get vaccinated.

Part of growing a set of balls is you go out and make yourself a job if the job you have is demanding things you do not want to do. I do not fault anyone who wants to keep the job they have, for the money they make. But...if there was ever a time to be consumed by the entrepreneur spirit....

If only it was that easy. Most people (me included) are either not smart enough, don't have the skill set, the imagination, and/or the personality to be an entrepreneur.

Moreover, not all endeavors are executed via entrepreneurs. In my field (R&D engineering in the national laboratories complex), the vast majority of people work for the large LLC that runs lab they work at. I have known a handful of people that have "grown a set of balls" and started their own company. In all of the cases I know of, the key ingredient wasn't balls, rather it was having a wife (preferably non-white/non-asian) as a co-owner. It also helped to have internal connections to the people that contracted out work.

Hence, at least for some a union would be a more viable alternative. Not that a union doesn't have its downsides.

That said, I agree with, "...if there was ever a time to be consumed by the entrepreneur spirit....".

I disagree, the key ingredient WAS balls...I never said all you need is balls. Like the saying goes, gonads have a specific purpose, and that purpose does not replace brains. Sounds to me like the people you speak of also took the time to look into how the game was played, got their ducks in a row, and played the game. But I understand how people can certainly be locked into a salary in certain jobs (those sweet golden handcuffs), what I have noticed is the talent/ability to be a successful entrepreneur often gets pushed by need more than desire. I for see a time when there is going to be a need, rather than desire.

oggsmash · October 16, 2021, 08:04:54 PM

Quote from: ChrisFox on October 15, 2021, 12:34:25 PM
In situations like yours a union might make sense. Their original purpose is about to come back with a vengeance, because our currency is about to enter free fall. Current wages will not be sufficient, and workers will need to fight.

I went out and made my own company. I work far, far, far harder than I ever did in any job from breaking up concrete to engineering for a startup. It is brutal. My family's insurance alone is $22,000 annually. That used to be paid for me. I spend $4 - 10k a month in ads. There's cover design, and accounting, and market researching.

But I wasn't happy with my job. I didn't like what I had to do for the salary I earned. I didn't like not being able to make my own decisions, and have power over my own life. So I took a huge risk, and worked hard until my dream became reality.

What I seem to be seeing from our Baizou buddies says they want the best of both worlds. They don't want to take the risks I've taken. They don't want to make their own games. But they want good pay, and good benefits.

I don't have any employees for precisely this reason. I do all the writing myself, and I hire artists, and pay my wife to edit. Because the second you hire someone they feel like they own part of what you've built.

If the union is being created because workers are being mistreated and underpaid? More power to them. If it's the inmates taking over the asylum as it appears from my armchair position? Expect Pathfinder's best days to be behind it.

My point, stated quite eloquently. I agree, those people want to be treated as risk takers and creators and rewarded as same. Yet with no grit, no vision, no risk. Sorry, it doesnt work that way, and I am very happy to see you having success in your endeavor. I have a feeling there are almost certainly several people working at paizo who could in fact go out, and to a degree have the same success you have had (and this is not to say that you are not talented, the reality is talent is NOT that rare, the willingness to work your ass off and take a big risk IS RARE) but there is no way in hell they will do it....because muh benefits!!!

BoxCrayonTales · October 16, 2021, 08:08:40 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on October 15, 2021, 09:24:40 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 15, 2021, 09:14:00 PM
I have a Paizo account that I use to get old issues of Dragon and Dungeon magazine, as well as other PDF products that are only sold on the Paizo store. It would be really, really annoying if the company sinks.

Download now, while you still can

I haven't bought all the magazine issues and don't have the money to do so in the foreseeable future

oggsmash · October 16, 2021, 08:10:16 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on October 15, 2021, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: Hakdov on October 15, 2021, 06:15:32 PM
If we're really lucky, this sort of thing will catch on and wotc employees will try to unionize. I'm pretty sure Hasbro would shutter wotc before they would allow that to happen.

Psst. All Hasro-branded games and toys are union-made.

China has unions? interesting

oggsmash · October 16, 2021, 08:15:36 PM

Oh I get it, they moved their toy production to only 50 percent in china to move more production to the union heavy nations of India and Vietnam....https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/23/hasbro-to-cut-china-production-of-its-toys-looks-to-india-and-vietnam.html

Union made, GTFO

oggsmash · October 16, 2021, 08:18:25 PM

Quote from: dkabq on October 16, 2021, 11:18:29 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2021, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on October 16, 2021, 12:37:51 AM
Where do you get that idea? A lot of it's made in China, and China doesn't have unions.

From UnionPlus: DID YOU KNOW THAT ALL HASBRO BRANDED GAMES AND TOYS ARE ALL UNION-MADE?

I believe Hasbro employees are mostly unionized under the AFL-CIO. For example, a lot is made in Pennsylvania, as explained by their AFL-CIO here.

Interesting. I never would have guessed that.

I noticed that DnD/WotC are not listed. As most of their product is printed material, I wonder how much comes from China vs. domestic vs. union?

used to be over 2/3 of toys were made in china, until Hasbro decided to move China down to 50 percent and increase production in the nations famous for their strong unions, Vietnam and India. So I would guess less than 1/3 in the USA. So I guess it helps to "afford" a stateside union when you outsource the mass majority to nations that allow people to be slaves.