B2: KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS!
Greetings!
I have always loved this module, from way back in the day. The module back then contributed hours and hours of fun play for several groups I played in, and the module has endured the test of time very well. Gary Gygax was simply brilliant in his writing and layout of the module. At different points, the module is humorous and fun. At every page, the module is useful, engaging, and inspiring, especially for nubs and beginners. The module is generally straightforward, and simple in design, and yet, also making room for and inspiring additional creativity and expansion.
So, I have recently spent some time working on B2: Keep on the Borderlands, to integrate it to the 5E rules. Then, I threw some of my players into the module. *laughs*
What suggestions and ideas do you have for integrating B2: Keep on the Borderlands with 5E rules? Have you used the module with 5E? How have your players dealt with going through the module? What changes or expansions have you made to B2: Keep on the Borderlands for your campaign?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK;1115838B2: KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS!
Greetings!
I have always loved this module, from way back in the day. The module back then contributed hours and hours of fun play for several groups I played in, and the module has endured the test of time very well. Gary Gygax was simply brilliant in his writing and layout of the module. At different points, the module is humorous and fun. At every page, the module is useful, engaging, and inspiring, especially for nubs and beginners. The module is generally straightforward, and simple in design, and yet, also making room for and inspiring additional creativity and expansion.
So, I have recently spent some time working on B2: Keep on the Borderlands, to integrate it to the 5E rules. Then, I threw some of my players into the module. *laughs*
What suggestions and ideas do you have for integrating B2: Keep on the Borderlands with 5E rules? Have you used the module with 5E? How have your players dealt with going through the module? What changes or expansions have you made to B2: Keep on the Borderlands for your campaign?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Buy the updated 5E statted version from Goodman Games and it includes B1. They have answered these questions for you.
https://goodman-games.com/store/product/original-adventures-reincarnated-1-into-the-borderlands/ (https://goodman-games.com/store/product/original-adventures-reincarnated-1-into-the-borderlands/)
Pretty sure that one of the playtest packages had B2 in it. You can probably still find it online somewhere.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1115848Buy the updated 5E statted version from Goodman Games and it includes B1. They have answered these questions for you.
https://goodman-games.com/store/product/original-adventures-reincarnated-1-into-the-borderlands/ (https://goodman-games.com/store/product/original-adventures-reincarnated-1-into-the-borderlands/)
I just saw this, along with the 5E Isle of Dread. Both looked like they were about 5x the size of the originals. Is this due to extra/expanded content, or is it because 5E is that much more fiddly and complicated than BX?
The playtests came with the Caves of Chaos part of Keep on the Borderland. I still have it. That said it is a bit off kilter here and there as they were still hammering out things along the way.
Quote from: Joey2k;1115880I just saw this, along with the 5E Isle of Dread. Both looked like they were about 5x the size of the originals. Is this due to extra/expanded content, or is it because 5E is that much more fiddly and complicated than BX?
Content. The Borderlands book has scans of 2 versions of each module for reference. So that alone doubles the page count from about 70 to 140. 16 page art gallery. So now up to 156 or so. Then there are several pages of interviews with Mike Carr, and interviews with Luke Gygax, Mike Mearls and I believe Harley Strogh(sp?). Then the conversion versions. So at least another 70+ pages so that brings us up to at least 230 pages of a 380+ page book. But we aren't done yet as there is also totally new material fleshing out stuff mentioned in the modules. And brings in some monsters that were not part of BX. Probably also a monster/npc/item section like in most 5e modules. So 250 pages maybee. But I'd lay good odds that the 5e versions take up more pages than the originals due to formatting, font or other factors. Especially if there is a-lot of art or splash page art.
Quote from: Joey2k;1115880I just saw this, along with the 5E Isle of Dread. Both looked like they were about 5x the size of the originals. Is this due to extra/expanded content, or is it because 5E is that much more fiddly and complicated than BX?
I have the X1 book here. Introduction, which includes essays by David "Zeb" Cook, Paul Reiche III, Lawrence Schick, Michael Curtis, and Harley Stroh, is 15 pages. Then you get scans of two classic editions of the module, 36 pages each. Then the 5e conversion starts on page 92 and is 230 pages long.
It's not all just expansive 5e statblocks though. The conversion is worth reading regardless of system. It's got more background info on the island, pronunciation guides, more rumor and encounter tables, a section that gives notes on what the various creatures of the island are likely to be doing and how they react when encountered. There is some other expanded material and new encounters on the island. About 50 pages of new maps and handouts, which are quite good (work by William McAusland).
I don't run 5e but I'm quite happy with the book and keep meaning to pick up the B2 conversion sometime, and will likely grab S3 as well. These books seem to be made with a genuine appreciation for the classics, not just as new edition cash grabs.
There's also a "Classic Modules Today" update on DTRPG. It's not very long, so I'm not sure it's worth the $3 price tag, but ymmv. It gives equivalencies for the things presented in the original module for 5e.
Link (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/177381/Classic-Modules-Today-B2-The-Keep-on-the-Borderlands-5e)
I own the "into the borderlands" and have enjoyed reading it. I look forward to running the updated B2. It is a huge tome so it might be a bit unwieldy at the table but I think I can have the maps and monster stats printed separate and make it easier.
Right now I am running the updated "Ghost of Saltmarsh." (Aka Sinister Secret of Salt Marsh series) That was not published by Goodman but does much the same treatment.
***Spoilers*******
The players have gotten gang pressed under the old mansion and are being forced to deliver weapons to the lizard folk. I like running these old modules with updated rules.
Also like the updated ship rules
Highly recommend the Goodman and WOTC update books.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1115848Buy the updated 5E statted version from Goodman Games and it includes B1. They have answered these questions for you.
https://goodman-games.com/store/product/original-adventures-reincarnated-1-into-the-borderlands/ (https://goodman-games.com/store/product/original-adventures-reincarnated-1-into-the-borderlands/)
Greetings!
Good suggestion, Monsterslayer! I have it ordered and on the way in the mail as we speak.:D
However, have YOU run the module with your group? Did you make any changes or add additional material? How did the module go for your group?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1115928I own the "into the borderlands" and have enjoyed reading it. I look forward to running the updated B2. It is a huge tome so it might be a bit unwieldy at the table but I think I can have the maps and monster stats printed separate and make it easier.
Right now I am running the updated "Ghost of Saltmarsh." (Aka Sinister Secret of Salt Marsh series) That was not published by Goodman but does much the same treatment.
***Spoilers*******
The players have gotten gang pressed under the old mansion and are being forced to deliver weapons to the lizard folk. I like running these old modules with updated rules.
Also like the updated ship rules
Highly recommend the Goodman and WOTC update books.
Greetings!
Excellent! I see, my friend! I have the Ghost of Saltmarsh as well. I think that is a good book, too.:D While the creatures and ship rules are all cool and useful, I also enjoyed the various NPC's and their stats and contexts within the module. Good stuff!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I don't really have any suggestions. It's just that B2 was the only module that I ever ran, although I mined some for ideas and bought others and read them for pleasure. It was also the last D&D campaign I ever ran, and the rules I used were barely D&D, even then.
Hi SHARK! A bit off topic here, but I'm curious as to why you chose D&D 5e over other games. What are the things in 5e that appeal to you? Is it the popularity, or do you actually prefer certain 5e mechanics over those from other games?
To get more on topic, B2 was my first RPG experience ever. My buddy DMed it for myself and two other kids in our neighborhood back in the early 1980's, using Moldvay Basic. I have not tried to convert or run it in 5e, however.
Quote from: SHARK;1115939Greetings!
Good suggestion, Monsterslayer! I have it ordered and on the way in the mail as we speak.:D
However, have YOU run the module with your group? Did you make any changes or add additional material? How did the module go for your group?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
No I have not run either the original or reworked versions of B2. I bought it a about the same time as "Ghosts of Saltmarsh" and decided to go with "Saltmarsh" because it reminds me of a Scooby Doo episode.
I was going to double back but this group of players have proven "resourceful". I half expect them to take the Sea Ghost and head off to sea (and Isle of Dread). I want to eventually run B2. When I was a kid we had B5 Horror on the Hill but never B2. I'm struck by the similarities.
I would also like to see updates to Drums on Fire Mountain and maybe the Pharoah series.
Quote from: Crusader X;1115949Hi SHARK! A bit off topic here, but I'm curious as to why you chose D&D 5e over other games. What are the things in 5e that appeal to you? Is it the popularity, or do you actually prefer certain 5e mechanics over those from other games?
To get more on topic, B2 was my first RPG experience ever. My buddy DMed it for myself and two other kids in our neighborhood back in the early 1980's, using Moldvay Basic. I have not tried to convert or run it in 5e, however.
I can't answer for Shark but I personally would rather be running these with BECM but I am running them at a library and 5E is the common tongue so to speak. I have been thankful to be able to run some classis style adventures and the players can readily get the rule books. The libraries even keep copies of the 5E core.
I own the updated B2 from Goodman games and just ran the X1 module for my group. They are massive tomes compared to the originals, mostly because they include original modules and then reprint the entire module for the 5E stat-blocks, which is fine but pretty inefficient. X1 has a bunch of additional encounters that expands the module quite a bit. I used a number of them, but left a few out. Also, the original modules are written in a significantly smaller font than the 5E modules. Perhaps this is just catering to us all being older with worse eyes! :)
Anyhow, I'd recommend both of these for anyone wanting to play those early modules using 5E. At the same time, I've found that I can run other early modules and just use 5E stat-blocks on the fly and everything works out just fine. One of the strengths of 5E is that it pretty well works just fine by me coming up with all these mechanical bits on the fly.
Quote from: Crusader X;1115949Hi SHARK! A bit off topic here, but I'm curious as to why you chose D&D 5e over other games. What are the things in 5e that appeal to you? Is it the popularity, or do you actually prefer certain 5e mechanics over those from other games?
To get more on topic, B2 was my first RPG experience ever. My buddy DMed it for myself and two other kids in our neighborhood back in the early 1980's, using Moldvay Basic. I have not tried to convert or run it in 5e, however.
Greetings!
Crusader X, from EN-World?:D Hello, my friend! Well, I will state that I like 5E. It isn't without being something of a double-edged sword, though. I enjoy the 5E simplicity, ease of use, and time-efficiency. Beyond those considerations, I agree, its broad popularity and instant appeal makes using the system with new players, family members, and so on, just much easier and more straightforward than trying to sell them on some obscure older system or reprint.
There's very little to "teach" a prospective player. Even entire nubs can readily comprehend how to play the game in the briefest of pre-game discussions. Whether we are talking about some younger adolescents, older returning adults that may have gamed years ago, or the giggling, somewhat apprehensive girlfriend or wife, that basic simplicity makes the game of 5E much more approachable and accessible, beyond whatever internet and You-Tube fame or exposure the game may have.
So, that is essentially why I use the 5E game. The game's simplicity, ease of use, time-efficiency, and general popularity and approachability to others. On another level, I also appreciate the game's modularity, as Pundit has explained that he counseled Wizards, to make the game easy to add new things, subsystems, or rip other things out, and have it still work smoothly. Mechanically speaking, that is an element that I enjoy very much, my friend. I can adjust and expand skills, backgrounds, classes, feats, all very easily to tailor such aspects to my own World of Thandor. Embracing such is easy to do, and won't "break the game" as the saying goes. Monster building and the tweaking of various creatures is also easily done, and straightforward. In my World of Thandor, I have a huge variety of races, creatures, animals, and monsters, and being able to modify them easily and present them in the campaign is something I also appreciate very much. The nuances and varieties of races and monsters in my world, even when presenting more normal and standard races and such, is something I am well-known for and applauded by my playes and friends. So, mechanically speaking, that is a crucial element for me as well.
B2: Keep on the Borderlands was my first official adventure back in the day! I have loved this module ever since. Both as a player, and I also broke my chops as a DM with Keep on the Borderlands as well!:D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: RMS;1116000I own the updated B2 from Goodman games and just ran the X1 module for my group. They are massive tomes compared to the originals, mostly because they include original modules and then reprint the entire module for the 5E stat-blocks, which is fine but pretty inefficient. X1 has a bunch of additional encounters that expands the module quite a bit. I used a number of them, but left a few out. Also, the original modules are written in a significantly smaller font than the 5E modules. Perhaps this is just catering to us all being older with worse eyes! :)
Anyhow, I'd recommend both of these for anyone wanting to play those early modules using 5E. At the same time, I've found that I can run other early modules and just use 5E stat-blocks on the fly and everything works out just fine. One of the strengths of 5E is that it pretty well works just fine by me coming up with all these mechanical bits on the fly.
Greetings!
Very cool, RMS! Good to know what I can look forward to with the new updated hardcover book for the module. That's pretty nice, too. Having a detailed conversion saves me a lot of time and effort!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings!
I really like the Into the Borderlands 5E Conversion and Classic Homage, presented by Goodman Games. I have the huge hardback book. It's very cool.:D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK;1116009Greetings!
Crusader X, from EN-World?:D Hello, my friend!
Yes, that's me. :cool: I always enjoyed your posts back in those EN World days, so its good to see you on this forum as well. I have the Into the Borderlands Goodman Games HC, and I hope to run it for some friends in the coming year.
I made this and playtested a few things for something I am going to call Beyond the Borderlands.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4056[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4057[/ATTACH]
Currently running B2 using modified B/X rules for my group of friends. We can only meet once a month for a short time, so after a year they're only 2/3rds of the way clearing the Keep. Lots of monsters, loads of treasure, great fun!
Quote from: estar;1117631I made this and playtested a few things for something I am going to call Beyond the Borderlands.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4056[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4057[/ATTACH]
Greetings!
Very nice, Estar! Who is going to be living there?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Crusader X;1117624Yes, that's me. :cool: I always enjoyed your posts back in those EN World days, so its good to see you on this forum as well. I have the Into the Borderlands Goodman Games HC, and I hope to run it for some friends in the coming year.
Greetings!
Excellent, Crusader X!:D Thank you for your kind words, as well. Damn, my friend, that goes back a very long time! 2002 to 2006, I think?
Are you planning on tweaking the book for your campaign?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK;1117662Greetings!
Very nice, Estar! Who is going to be living there?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Humans and barbarians living on a lawless frontier fighting humanoids in a cursed forest that was once an elven kingdom.
Your maps are great as always, Estar!
Quote from: RPGPundit;1117931Your maps are great as always, Estar!
Thanks.
The original background is vague enough that I realized that a person can do a followup and share it without running afoul of IP considerations.
Quote from: SHARK;1115838B2: KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS!
Greetings!
I have always loved this module, from way back in the day. The module back then contributed hours and hours of fun play for several groups I played in, and the module has endured the test of time very well....What suggestions and ideas do you have for integrating B2: Keep on the Borderlands with 5E rules? Have you used the module with 5E? How have your players dealt with going through the module? What changes or expansions have you made to B2: Keep on the Borderlands for your campaign?
I have B2. I bought it last year. For the first time. My hands on favorite though is
Frontier Forts of Kelnore from Judges Guild. It was out for three whole years before TSR even made one outdoor adventure module. I had B1 which was great, but when the players came out of the Dungeon they went into a JG village, which usually had some type of fort or keep nearby... Just a couple of reference maps for you today…
Frontier Forts of Kelnore (https://imgur.com/TbaN8yA) 1st Edition (1977)
(https://i.imgur.com/TbaN8yA.png)
Frontier Forts of Kelnore (https://imgur.com/GOTatEv) 3rd Edition (1980)
(https://i.imgur.com/GOTatEv.jpg)
Frontier Forts of Kelnore, Sample Fort (https://imgur.com/VyGNebT) (1977)
(https://i.imgur.com/VyGNebT.png)
Judges Guild, Tamcande Hamlet & Keep (https://imgur.com/MSNFYea) (2020)
(https://i.imgur.com/MSNFYea.jpg)
Map KeyTamcande KeepKeep walls 15' high with a rampart. Access through stairs in the towers. Towers qre 40' tall. Main Gate towers are 20'x20'30' h and main gate is secured by two heavy iron portcullis. Extra fireplaces have been added to keep the manor house warm in the wintertime. The wood is stored beneath the curtain wall opposite of the armory. Stables for the Cavalry have been built on a nearby farm.
Leader Geofrey Tamcande 3rd Level Fighter , AC : 3 HD: 3 HP: 26 Armed with a +1 Longsword (1d8+1), +2 vs. magic users & enchanted creatures (1d8+2) and 2 daggers, one a +1 magic Dagger dmge 1d4+1, and a regular dagger 1d4. He is attended by an Aquaintance, ranulf, a merchant from a larger nearby city. Also living in the Manor house with him is a 1st level Bard, Sablina Stephanie Eglin who holds the title of Knightess Commander, or Dame Commander, and she commands six 3rd level Knights AC: 3, HD 3: HP: 17, 21, 22, 20, 18, 28 armed with Longswords, 2 daggers and carrying lances when mounted on heavy horses. They live in the manor house and serve as their Sablina & Geofrey's bodyguards. There is a Chambermaid named Volaitha that lives in the manor House, and a cook named Hugh Lughs, as well as a Valet named Ailmund of Tamcande. In addition to the Knights. There are 4 Medium Foot Spearmen AC: 6, HD 1, HP 10, 9,9,1 and fourteen Heavy Foot Swordsmen AC: 3 HD 1, HP: 10,10,10,9,9,8,8,7,7,6,6,6,4,2 who garrison Tamcande Keep.
1- Tamcande Manor House 3-Story + Basement 80'x65'
2- West Tower 20' Diameter, 40' High
3- North Tower 20' Diameter, 40' High
4- East Tower 20' Diameter, 40' High
5- Northgate Tower 20'x20'x30' h
6- Southgate Tower 20'x20'x30' h
7- South Tower 20' Diameter, 40' High
8- Southwest Tower 20' Diameter, 40' High
9- Armory 20'x40' Armorer Nicholas Drear and his assistant Ailward of Tamcande
10- Courtyard 40'x40'
11- Blacksmiths 20'x30 with a 15'x30' forge area on the east. Salfreid Herrmann is the smith,a huge hulk of a man with a Strength of 18/26 HD: 7 AC: 9.
Tamcande Village Population: 130
12 – Court of Law, Judge Winand Kartmann presiding with 2 bailiffs, AC:7 HD: 1 HP 6,6
13 - residence
14 - residence
15 - residence
16 - residence
17 - Armorer – (Plate Armor) Jonas Herrmann, younger brother of Salfried
18 - residence
19 - residence
20 - residence
21 - Deed Recorder. Osanna Susanna, AC: 9 HD 1 HP 6
22 - The King's Dog Tavern. Run by Milo the Clement, a 4th level Thief/3rd level Wizard. AC: 9 HD: 7 HP 26
HP: 27
23 - residence
24 - residence
25 - residence
26 - residence
Quote from: Panzerkraken;1115918There's also a "Classic Modules Today" update on DTRPG. It's not very long, so I'm not sure it's worth the $3 price tag, but ymmv. It gives equivalencies for the things presented in the original module for 5e.
Link (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/177381/Classic-Modules-Today-B2-The-Keep-on-the-Borderlands-5e)
I'm the "author" of the CMT for B2 Keep on the Borderlands. It was an interesting project to be a part of. It and X1 (I did this conversion guide to) are the complete opposite of the Goodman Games Products. It is a conversion guide in the fullest sense of the word. CMT's are really only stat blocks of the original modules "inventory"; monsters, treasure, magic items, traps. All the CMTs are designed as a time saving, labor reducing tool for the DM. It should go without saying, but you use the original 1e module to run your adventure and the conversion guide is there for reference when needed. As a product the whole line has blown cold with some, hot with others and the sales numbers say the silent majority of consumers like the time-saving tool these represent to prep for 5e rules. Also, this was my first paying game-writing gig. I thought it would be a good opportunity to see if I could commit to game-writing projects, learn design, layout and how to create POD books, and follow instructions from a publisher and hit their standards. As a novice it took an immense amount of time. There was no editor or layout person to help, it was all on you to deliver. Now I just make more and more of my own complicated books so I can watch more chunks of time disappear :) Anyways, it was real fun getting in the role-playing business game and having some people praise the product and really find it useful while others sounded like I stopped by their house and shit on their step.
Keep on the Borderland is far from the best-written module, and yet to me it is still my very favorite TSR module to this day (there are a few runners-up of course). A lot of better-crafted modules are far less fun.