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"Avoiding Combat": Fuck, why?

Started by RPGPundit, January 26, 2007, 04:25:39 PM

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David R

#30
January 26, 2007, 10:12:31 PM
Quote from: James J SkachCare to share?

Nothing really interesting really. Just that, in most of my non-combat games, stuff like investigation, intimidation, following leads etc involved a lot of tactical thinking. I'm sure it's not within the scope of the discussion here. Most of this stuff happens in combat games, but in non combat games, these elements become crucial (IMO) as a kind of stand in for combat.

Regards,
David R

James J Skach

#31
January 26, 2007, 10:29:37 PM
Quote from: David RNothing really interesting really. Just that, in most of my non-combat games, stuff like investigation, intimidation, following leads etc involved a lot of tactical thinking. I'm sure it's not within the scope of the discussion here. Most of this stuff happens in combat games, but in non combat games, these elements become crucial (IMO) as a kind of stand in for combat.

Regards,
David R
Ahh..interesting.  I hadn't thought of it that way. That makes conflating them more of combat and/or tactics as opposed to combat = tactics.

Thanks for sharing!
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RPGPundit

#32
January 26, 2007, 10:48:43 PM
Quote from: TonyLBI dunno.  Law of averages says there's probably somebody who believes it, but I haven't heard anyone touting the opinion in more than a decade, myself.

Really? I guess you haven't looked at RPG.net lately?

RPGPundit
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John Morrow

#33
January 26, 2007, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: King of Old SchoolWhat Balbinus said.  'Cause you know, god fucking forbid that we might want to do something different once in a while instead of the exact same thing we've been doing since 1983...

I find that statement incredibly ironic coming from someone with the screen name "King of Old School". ;)
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John Morrow

#34
January 26, 2007, 11:05:40 PM
Quote from: James J SkachFor all of you who are equating D&D with combat heavy dungeon crawls, perhaps you could ask John Morrow about it - or just take a look at this thread.  Seems to me he's doing some pretty heavy character stuff in D&D - imagine that!

Well, the key is to realize that you don't need detailed rules to cover everything you need to do in role-playing.  In fact, I find alignment in D&D to be a less intrusive personality mechanic (and that's what I think it is -- a very simple personality mechanic) than things like psychological limitations in Champions.  

Believe it or not, D&D 3e is designed to do more than just combat (see the links and quotes I posted elsewhere from Ryan Dancey and Sean K. Reynolds).  And while I also once thought it was mainly just good for combat, running a campaign and playing in a campaign convinced me that it does a decent, if imperfect, job of handling all sorts of things other than combat.
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David R

#35
January 27, 2007, 12:29:58 AM
Quote from: John MorrowWell, the key is to realize that you don't need detailed rules to cover everything you need to do in role-playing.  In fact, I find alignment in D&D to be a less intrusive personality mechanic (and that's what I think it is -- a very simple personality mechanic) than things like psychological limitations in Champions.  


Yeah. I think one of the problems of theory (which I know little of) is that system and roleplaying are always conflated.

Regards,
David R

J Arcane

#36
January 27, 2007, 01:00:34 AM
Quote from: Thanatos02I read this, but seriously, it doesn't make any sense.
For some reason though, when I read it, I started trying to see if I could smack him, with my mind.  

I wonder if it worked.
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John Morrow

#37
January 27, 2007, 01:04:39 AM
Quote from: David RYeah. I think one of the problems of theory (which I know little of) is that system and roleplaying are always conflated.

I think there is another, maybe more important, conceptual problem which is the idea that if something is important, then it needs a lot of rules.  Players need rules for things that they can do better with rules than without rules.  They don't need rules for something just because it's perceived as being important.
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TonyLB

#38
January 27, 2007, 04:20:27 AM
Quote from: RPGPunditReally? I guess you haven't looked at RPG.net lately?
:shrug:  Nobody reads all of RPG.net.  Maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places to find this kind of argument.
Superheroes with heart:  Capes!

David R

#39
January 27, 2007, 04:33:13 AM
Quote from: TonyLB:shrug:  Nobody reads all of RPG.net.  Maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places to find this kind of argument.

When you're looking for a fight, chances are you will find one :D

Regards,
David R

The Yann Waters

#40
January 27, 2007, 09:11:12 AM
Quote from: RPGPunditReally? I guess you haven't looked at RPG.net lately?
What, you mean threads like this?

But it really depends on the circumstances: for instance, if you are up against something that can steal your identity whenever it wants after it has even once come face to face with you and that simply reincarnates or replicates itself when killed, manipulating the events discreetly across a safe distance might be the most prudent course of action.
Previously known by the name of "GrimGent".

Balbinus

#41
January 27, 2007, 09:53:41 AM
People who think D&D is only about combat plainly don't play much D&D.

It's not even true that mechanically it only supports combat, once that was the case but many years ago.

But hey, whatever, why let facts get in the way.

KenHR

#42
January 27, 2007, 10:33:02 AM
If you play OD&D/AD&D by the book, most of your XP comes from treasure.  Treasure operates as a tangible reward for successfully completing a mission or adventure.  It's never been about strictly combat...it's all about taking stuff! :)
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


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James McMurray

#43
January 27, 2007, 10:50:01 AM
I don't know anyone that thinks D&D is only about combat, but the rules definitely place a high focus on it.

Scale

#44
January 27, 2007, 12:15:05 PM
Combat systems are hard to design, and solid, robust combat systems even more so.  If one cannot design one, or one's favorite game has a system that's less than solid, one might as well rationalize it some way, and in the case of the "swine", that's by saying "combat is for doo-doo heads, anyway".  The more handwavey the system or design paradigm, the louder and more frequently they say it.  Silly, it is, really.
 
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