didn't twilight 2000 have a "coolness under fire" mechanic?  maybe something similar should be mandatory in games where you want more "realism" in gun combat.  would help with the "autofire as suppression" side of things.

as far as the OP, does anyone here have any concrete examples of their actual experience with autofire IRL vs. their experience in game rules?  control of autofire, damage estimates (or should you even bother), etc?

Cyberpunk (original, with Friday Night Firefight) had a Cool reaction to combat so even some pretty level headed people COULD bug out under gunfire. Its one of the reasons I loved that edition of the game.


It's also one of the things I do in my games is to have people behave like they would--run from fights, get sick afterwards. I don't inflict that on PC's unless there is a reason too. (In my FRPG, I've a couple of PC's who when they DO hurt or kill someone, I'm going to set them back with such things using the mechanics as presented so far )

CP2020 splits the autofire rules into two - at close range you get +1 to the attack roll for every 10 rounds fired. At Medium or greater range you get -1 for ever 10 rounds fired.
Then you subtract the "To hit" difficulty number of the target from your Attack Roll, and every point represents a bullet that hits the target.

3 round burst works at ranges up to medium, gives +3 to attack roll and is 1d6/2 to see how many bullets hit.

IMO the 3rnd burst and Autofire rules should be merged, so up to 3 rnds you get a bonus but after that you get a penalty.

There's also a Suppresive Fire rule designed to "keep their heads down".
And in CP2020, bullets are respected by all but the twinkiest combat monster.

Quote from: JimBobOzMy only problem with autofire rules is as for other kinds of fire - neither NPCs nor PCs are scared of it. It's pointless to give "covering fire" to keep the enemy heads down because they just pop up anyway.

I blame the Hit Points concept.
In every players mind theres a little calculator that says "My character has X hitpoints, they should be able to take Y hits from (insert weapon) without dieing." and thus will happily stand up in the middle of a raging firefight, unless they remember to roleplay not being stupid.
Example - I've played Day of Defeat and Call of Duty 1 to death, and I'll quite happily stand up, aim, and shoot the enemy. Why? Because I have a handy counter telling me how many times I can be shot before I die, and I know I can take the risk because theres bound to be a healing potion around here somewhere. It's unrealistic.
Call of Duty 2 otoh, does away with that and has a sort of blurry/redscreen effect when you get shot, and you dont know how many hits you can take.
The result was that within about 5 minutes of playing, I was hitting the deck and spraying bullets wildly in the direction of my attackers like any new recruit.

Quote from: JimBobOzWhy don't we? Because loud noise is, along with falling, the only instictive fears humans have.

And fire. Apparently SEAL teams in Vietnam would sometimes remove the 4" flash suppressor from their Colt Commando's for the added scare effect of the huge muzzle flash.

hit locations alleviate some of the hit point problem.  in the CT/MT campaign i used to run, we had a hit location system.  any firefights would invariably come down to worrying about head shots.  just poking your head around the corner was definitely a bad idea.  even with combat armor/battle dress, a laser rifle-13 shot (let alone PGMPs) would ruin your day right quick

Well, back at my Galaxies in Shadow project, I've toyed with forcing pc morale checks for various actions.  In the end it'll be an optional rule.  But yeah, wanna charge into a hail of fire?  Make a Military Discipline roll at -50 first please.

On the other hand, combat's pretty brutal and there's no fate points.  Sadly TPKs don't generally convince people to return to a game.

Quote from: O'BorgCall of Duty 2 otoh, does away with that and has a sort of blurry/redscreen effect when you get shot, and you dont know how many hits you can take.

They nicked it from Halo - it's more or less a regenerating shield that only starts to recharge if you can not get shot for a few seconds.

Anyway, the upshot is that you have to take cover every few seconds, and because so long as you don't die you can take a few hits with no lasting ill effects it gives much better flowing gameplay, principally because you don't have to quicksave every few seconds incase you lose some precious, irreplaceable hitpoints.

Anyone remember the snipery levels  before? Two steps - quicksave - two steps - headshotted by sniper - reload - two steps - headshotted by sniper - note location - reload - edge around corner - quicksave - edge - headshotted - quickload - line up sights in correct location - edge around corner - shoot sniper - quicksave.

etc.

The Halo regenerating shield just works so much better - you get exciting, flowing cinematic firefights:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mmFMsuW4u8

For a roleplaying game, you could have you character get 'Threat Points' when out in the open being shot at. When your threat points exceed your dodge score you start taking actual damage.

This is better than a system where you reduce hit chances so someone can survive about the same time out of cover because it gives more fixed results - a player can see his threat climbing, but so long as he is in cover before it reaches maximum he will be fine.

On the otherhand, if he has a 10% chance of dying each turn out of cover he may be unluckily headshoted as soon as he sticks his head up, which may be 'realistic' but as anyone who has played a computergame knows, would suck if you couldn't imediatly quickload. You get characters to act in character, without killing off too many of them.

--

I short, one should look to successful games for the solution.

Course, now I'm pondering the old maxim - don't let your rules generate outcomes you don't want.

Do you WANT the possibilty for a character to get headshotted as soon as they stick their head up.

If the answer if no, then you remove it.

What possibile outcomes are you willing to accept?

There might be two - does my character reach his new cover, or does he retreat back to his original cover.