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Atypyical race-class combos

Started by jhkim, January 27, 2021, 05:11:26 PM

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jhkim

#120
February 03, 2021, 02:04:48 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 03, 2021, 09:04:06 AM
As an aside to the previous point, if someone had the unenviable task of rewriting 3E to support more atypical race-class combos while being as true to tradition and to the 3E model as possible (and I couldn't convince them to run away), I suggest that the following strategy would be worth pursuing:


  • Drop skills entirely.
  • Rework feats to cover what skills used to, except in a few places put the skills back into the classes.  Of course, make feats meaningful in the process, which will be easier now that they aren't competing with skills for useful things to do.  Will also result in a reasonably short feat list.
  • Tie the races and feats just a little. Could be a simple as races getting certain feats for free or more complex like qualifying for them notably sooner.  (This is 3E we are talking about after all.)
  • If you want the gold medal, build in multi-classing from the start of your design instead of tacking it on as a half-thought, untested idea driven by narrow ideas about simulation and the mistaken assumption that all the fun in Hero and GURPS is the character building. That's not strictly necessary to accomplish the goal, but will make your users happier.  With all the time you save not trying to fit skills into a class-based game, you can at least make the attempt.

This seems like a radical change that is mostly unrelated to atypical race/class combos. I didn't play much of 3E, but I played and ran for a number of atypical race-class combos. They were slightly suboptimal, but at the time it seemed like a big and cool change that any race could be any class.

I think just changing the attribute adjustments would be fine.

Steven Mitchell

#121
February 03, 2021, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 03, 2021, 02:04:48 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 03, 2021, 09:04:06 AM
As an aside to the previous point, if someone had the unenviable task of rewriting 3E to support more atypical race-class combos while being as true to tradition and to the 3E model as possible (and I couldn't convince them to run away), I suggest that the following strategy would be worth pursuing:


  • Drop skills entirely.
  • Rework feats to cover what skills used to, except in a few places put the skills back into the classes.  Of course, make feats meaningful in the process, which will be easier now that they aren't competing with skills for useful things to do.  Will also result in a reasonably short feat list.
  • Tie the races and feats just a little. Could be a simple as races getting certain feats for free or more complex like qualifying for them notably sooner.  (This is 3E we are talking about after all.)
  • If you want the gold medal, build in multi-classing from the start of your design instead of tacking it on as a half-thought, untested idea driven by narrow ideas about simulation and the mistaken assumption that all the fun in Hero and GURPS is the character building. That's not strictly necessary to accomplish the goal, but will make your users happier.  With all the time you save not trying to fit skills into a class-based game, you can at least make the attempt.

This seems like a radical change that is mostly unrelated to atypical race/class combos. I didn't play much of 3E, but I played and ran for a number of atypical race-class combos. They were slightly suboptimal, but at the time it seemed like a big and cool change that any race could be any class.

I think just changing the attribute adjustments would be fine.

Well, if it wasn't clear from my editorial comments, I don't think it would be a good use of someone's time.  I certainly wouldn't waste my time on it.  I'm more listing it as a thought exercise for what would need to be done if someone was really serious about solving it at a system level.  Also as to why focusing on racial abilities is barking up the wrong tree on this topic.  Any GM worth their salt can take a group of reasonable players and address issues as they arise with a whole lot less effort.
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