Quote from: RPG PunditAnd its also largely fucking present just to try to force you to use miniatures, so that they can sell you miniatures. Fuckers.

Hold up, pardner.  3E came out in '99.  It featured AoOs.  I know because I struggled like hell in 2000 to make the damn things work in my Greymoor campaign.  And we used paper figures and MageKnight.  DDM didn't come out until, what, '03?

Are you saying that the secret masters at Wizards had the DDM product line planned years in advance and didn't tell anybody?  If that's your argument I'd like you to get together with the other RPG Pundit.  You know, the one who is telling everyone to stop talking about 4e because Wizards wouldn't try to surprise anyone by silently developing their next cash cow.

Quote from: jrientsHold up, pardner.  3E came out in '99.  It featured AoOs.  I know because I struggled like hell in 2000 to make the damn things work in my Greymoor campaign.  And we used paper figures and MageKnight.  DDM didn't come out until, what, '03?

Are you saying that the secret masters at Wizards had the DDM product line planned years in advance and didn't tell anybody?  If that's your argument I'd like you to get together with the other RPG Pundit.  You know, the one who is telling everyone to stop talking about 4e because Wizards wouldn't try to surprise anyone by silently developing their next cash cow.

I'm sure that in '99 they already had an idea that they were eventually going to get seriously into the miniatures business, yes. That isn't "surprising" someone or in any way disingenuous.

And of course, by the time 3.x came out, and the AoO was already expanded and vastly more complicated with all the feats and class exemptions and rules and little niggling fucking insanity-inducing nitpicks for all the autistic fuckers who think they're clever by manipulating a game to the breaking point and mistaking that for an accomplishment of worth for their character, the miniatures project was in full swing, and D&D's system was clearly defaulted to using miniatures.  Making those of us who despise playing with miniatures and don't want to spend money on it just plain out of luck.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jrientsHold up, pardner.  3E came out in '99.  It featured AoOs.  I know because I struggled like hell in 2000 .....

 Naw - YOU hold up .
{{{:-)

D&D 3/E was introduced at the August 2000 GenCon.  NOT in 1999.

  The next year , people could be seen in the hallways of cons like GenCon and ORIGINS playing pick up games of D&D with MageKnight figs.
 If you remember the earliest packaging of the pre-painted D&D minis was so similiar in look to the MageKnight packaging that casual gamers sometimes confused the two.

- Ed C.

Well, crap.  I was a year off.  I must have started that campaign in January '01 then.

I don't think AoO needs to be "defended."  It's a rule.  It works for a lot of people, and a lot of people don't like it.  So what?

Quote from: RedFoxI don't think AoO needs to be "defended."  It's a rule.  It works for a lot of people, and a lot of people don't like it.  So what?

We need something to argue about around here or it just wouldn't be the same.

Quote from: jrientsWe need something to argue about around here or it just wouldn't be the same.

So much more fun stuff to argue than that old saw, though.

What's everyone's favorite Modron?

the one eaten by the slaad

Quote from: RedFoxSo much more fun stuff to argue than that old saw, though.

What's everyone's favorite Modron?

we are all the same modron_

Quote from: Abyssal MawThere's other tactics too: flanking, squeezing, surrounding, sundering, tripping, .. but nearly everything in a D&D battle is based on skilled  player tactics to control the battlefield, and that means using attacks of opportunity to your advantage.

You just nailed why I even like 3.5 D&D. Very cool. There are still things I prefer GURPS for but this is very much the reason I'll play/GM 3.5. AoO taken away leaves the game a little less of a game. The other stuff is why I like D&D 3.5 better than just playing minis. Thank you!

Quote from: RedFoxWhat's everyone's favorite Modron?

I really like the modrons as originally depicted in the MMII, just sleek, plane cubes/pyramids/spheres/whatever, no crazy clockwork.  And the higher level dudes looked like friendly grey aliens.  My favorite of the bunch are the starfish-shaped fellows that squirt paralyzing fluid.

One of my players made a modron for my Wilderlands game.  I know, it's not exactly setting-appropriate, but I was making an effort to allow pretty much anything.  I downloaded a +2 ECL variant I found online somewhere, and he thought it was perfect.

Honestly, he's now the most entertaining character in the group.  While the rest of the party is going off exploring, he will spend his time doing things like, "I count the pebbles on the ground in this spot.  How many are there?"

-O

Primus of course. But then again, I was a power gaming munchkin back then, so if it wasn't scary enough to be a challenge it wasn't worth looking at.

Quote from: James McMurrayPrimus of course. But then again, I was a power gaming munchkin back then, so if it wasn't scary enough to be a challenge it wasn't worth looking at.

In my group we can't mention that dude without someone (usually me) singing a few lines from one of the songs by the band of the same name.  I usually go with "My Name is Mud".

I discovered the two in the opposite order, and wondered if they'd named their band after the guy.