Quote from: mythusmageThen somebody at Wizards basically misunderstood why wargames have attacks of opportunity. Unit A sees unit B doing something, and takes advantage of the opportunity to do something to unit B.

Sure, it could be them misunderstanding what the game they wrote is meant to be, but I doubt it. Who cares why wargames had attacks of opportunity? The last time I checked D&D wasn't a war game.

Quote from: James McMurraySure, it could be them misunderstanding what the game they wrote is meant to be, but I doubt it. Who cares why wargames had attacks of opportunity? The last time I checked D&D wasn't a war game.

Well, D&D has changed in the last ten years.

What's your point? It's changed a lot. But it's still not a war game.

This page in "DM OF THE RINGS" is the best blast againat "attack of oppurtunity" that I've seen : http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=792

Gods!, no wonder I'm more comfortable with GURPS.

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarThis page in "DM OF THE RINGS" is the best blast againat "attack of oppurtunity" that I've seen : http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=792

Gods!, no wonder I'm more comfortable with GURPS.

- Ed C.

In fairness, you can have that kind of debate about almost anything.

And a GURPS fan (and I say that as a long-time player of GURPS) is on pretty thin ice in this arena....

Isn't it Gurps where you swing the two-handed weapon, and then you have to spend a round 'recovering' the weapon?


Oh well. I'm not here to slag on Gurps actually.

I like Attacks of Opportunity as a rules concept, because they make the tactical game part of D&D interesting, and allow player skill to shine. A decent player (and especially a well coordinated team) can use his own tactics and skills to control a battle, and not just turn all battles into a stat comparison of their characters.

A classic example is the fighter bullrushing an enemy past a rogue, who sneak attacks him on the Attack of Opportunity...and ends his movement in a flank with another combatant or in a hazardous area setup by the party spellcaster (grease, web, what-have-you). So when the enemy tries to move again you get.. another round of attacks of opportunity. I've seen some really smart players do some amazing things.  

 FWIW, I read the cartoon, and not only could I follow it easily, I can tell the author could too. (Legolas doesn't get an AoO in any case because he was using a missile weapon).

Quote from: kregmosierI see them as a throwback to wargaming (cc: minis, battlemat, etc.)

If you like that sort of thing, cool...i don't.  If i wanted to play a minis game, i'd play WH40K or WHF...in that setting, I don't mind reading about reach, AAO, threatened grid spaces, or whatever.

I grew up playing D&D like it WASN'T a war game...not going to start now.

my thoughts as well.  as a one-off i could enjoy that level of crunch, but not as a regular part of the campaign.  and it was a pain to dm, when i did it.  one of my players was a rogue who really knew how to use the system and would tumble etc. all over, really using and controlling the battlefield.  it was amazing to watch, actually.

definitely some of that was my fault, not studying the system and how d&d had changed from the old days.  our sessions ran fine (i just deferred the AoO calls to him if there was any doubt after a while) and people had fun.  but i won't dm 3.x again--not my bag.

glad that others have fun with it.  RPG's shouldn't be about hopping little figures around a board, tho, IMO.  YMMV etc.

Quote from: KoltarThis page in "DM OF THE RINGS" is the best blast againat "attack of oppurtunity" that I've seen : http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=792

Gods!, no wonder I'm more comfortable with GURPS.

- Ed C.

It looked more like a blast against morons to me.

Quote from: KoltarThis page in "DM OF THE RINGS" is the best blast againat "attack of oppurtunity" that I've seen : http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=792

Gods!, no wonder I'm more comfortable with GURPS.

We have discussions just like that all the time in my group, yet we all seem to still have a lot of fun.

Quote from: KoltarDoes anybody use that?

Sure. Personally, I don't consider them to be that complicated. Certainly not complicated enough for all the fuss.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiSure. Personally, I don't consider them to be that complicated. Certainly not complicated enough for all the fuss.

Seanchai

Yes.  Then again, lots of things seem to be not worth all the fuss that rpg fans kick up over them online.  

We use 'em. I don't really think it's that hard, but it's like all rule-sets. Eventually, people are going to come upon something that doesn't totally click. Maybe it's too abstract, or... well in AoO's case, I think it's because there's a list of things that do and don't cause one and people get hung up on memorizing the list.
I think.
I don't think the game breaks if you don't use them, but you do lose value of some Feats and abilities, so I think it's better just to go ahead and figure it out. Maybe print out a little list or jot them down on an index card for easy reference if you find it comes up a lot.

I do that with my Wizard spells, I do it with my Exalted charms, and when I played AD&D, I did it with THAC0 because for whatever reason, I could never figure that thing the fuck out.

Geez!!

 I just thought the particular comic page was funny and was on topic for this thread from more than a month back.

- Ed C.

Attack of Opportunities are invoked by one of two things, generally:

• Moving through a threatened area (people with weapons threaten all the squares around them.  People without weapons don't unless they're skilled martial artists.  People with polearms threaten further out, etc.)
• Lowering your guard long enough to give someone a shot at you through your defenses while in a threatened area, like chugging a potion or casting a spell.

I think determining what creates situation #2 is the part that flabbergasts most people.  There's a chart for it, but it's also easy to spot-rule.

Quote from: RedFoxI think determining what creates situation #2 is the part that flabbergasts most people.  There's a chart for it, but it's also easy to spot-rule.

Yeah.  Sometimes I just flat make a call one way or another to keep the game rolling.  Better to make a quick mistake than bog the game down too much.  Since I usually err in favor of the PCs, no one objects.