Atlas Rise or Die is a new sword & sorcery RPG with its own unique system now on Kickstarter. It promises an 80's tone with a streamlined, modern system and a metal world atmosphere. The art is very impressive and the components are as well. I'm very tempted to back it but a few things are holding me back. I saw an elf in a couple of the pics. Having elves and such in a sword & sorcery Conan-esque world is a turnoff for me. Also, after backing Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of and owning Barbarians of Lemuria Mythic Edition I'm not sure I need this or if I would like it better than either of those other 2 to play it over them.
What is everyone's thoughts on this new Kickstarter?
http://kck.st/2Tzsjec
Link doesn't work...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on June 01, 2021, 06:57:48 PM
Link doesn't work...
Link has been updated now in my original post. Thanks for pointing that out.
I think it's found a thoroughly underserved niche in the role-playing market. Isn't it amazing that despite the fact that Sword and Sorcery is one of the foundations of the hobby, that there are so few attempts to make a rpg based off it?
...Ok more seriously.
I'm getting a serious "Fantasy Heartbreaker" vibe from this.
QuoteFlee
We use a three-dimensional (race, class, archetype) character creation system, where by removing the traditional "alignment" aspect of characters and introducing the archetype system, well-rounded personalities can be created and played out.
QuoteOur own 2d10 system is less random and unpredictable than the classic d20, but it offers the same ease when it comes to calculation and keeping track of events. By using two ten-sided dice, average rolls are more frequent and exceptional rolls, like natural 20s, even more valuable.
One should always be sceptical when a game boasts about solving problems that only D&D has.
Thank you TJS. I be sure to avoid this for their whine about 1d20 rolls.
There is one great 5e/PF setting for Sword & Sorcery which is even free (Xoth). There are several OSR games that cover this ground well, including Crypts & Things and ASSoH. Conan in various iterations is available, too. That being said, yes there is always room for another!
I wish them luck, but prefer my Sword & Sorcery without elves and dwarfs. Of concern is the promise that the game mechanics (not just the setting) will work with both their new 2d10 system and DnD 5e. Great if they can pull that off, but it is setting the challenge rather high. "Rise or Die" indeed.
Worst part is it will bring out from the woodwork everyone who thinks they understand statistics (but don't) to argue about normal curves and "swingyness". Crom, save us from that cosmic horror!
Quote from: TJS on June 01, 2021, 09:46:00 PM
I think it's found a thoroughly underserved niche in the role-playing market. Isn't it amazing that despite the fact that Sword and Sorcery is one of the foundations of the hobby, that there are so few attempts to make a rpg based off it?
IMHO D&D casts a big fucking shadow.
And non-Conan Sword and Sorcery seems to be a very hard sell.
IMHO it seems that it is quite hard for others to nail their particular flavor of S&S right.
So many 3rd party S&S settings cram so much different stuff from various S&S sources that it just becomes an alternate form of gonzo D&D kitchen sink fantasy.
Which after listening to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svI0WkTz98
When the developer said that they had ten different playable races... - I'm out.
Quote from: Vidgrip on June 02, 2021, 10:52:22 AM
There is one great 5e/PF setting for Sword & Sorcery which is even free (Xoth). There are several OSR games that cover this ground well, including Crypts & Things and ASSoH. Conan in various iterations is available, too. That being said, yes there is always room for another!
I wish them luck, but prefer my Sword & Sorcery without elves and dwarfs. ...
BIG pet peeve pf mine.
Every time I read up on a S&S setting and I see a mention of elves or dwarves, I dismiss it out of hand.
Elves and Dwarves in a "S&S" setting = 5e Fan Service.
Quote from: TJS on June 01, 2021, 09:49:03 PM
...Ok more seriously.
I'm getting a serious "Fantasy Heartbreaker" vibe from this.
QuoteFlee
We use a three-dimensional (race, class, archetype) character creation system, where by removing the traditional "alignment" aspect of characters and introducing the archetype system, well-rounded personalities can be created and played out.
QuoteOur own 2d10 system is less random and unpredictable than the classic d20, but it offers the same ease when it comes to calculation and keeping track of events. By using two ten-sided dice, average rolls are more frequent and exceptional rolls, like natural 20s, even more valuable.
One should always be sceptical when a game boasts about solving problems that only D&D has.
They say that their system will be compatible with d20 games.
So first thing out of Pundits mouth will be
"Why didn't you make it a d20 game then?"Which is a very good question...
I get the underlying reasons why they went with 2d10. But for a not-D&D game, their setting better be evocative as fuck, and really draw people in to play to get any kind of traction as a non-d20 Fantasy game.
But ultimately IMHO, they are making a fantasy heartbreaker that will perform as such in the marketplace.
If the PDF is cheap enough it might have some good ideas to mine for a rules hack, as it seems that they are trying to do something different for magic besides the conventional spell list.
Quote from: Vidgrip on June 02, 2021, 10:52:22 AM
There is one great 5e/PF setting for Sword & Sorcery which is even free (Xoth). There are several OSR games that cover this ground well, including Crypts & Things and ASSoH. Conan in various iterations is available, too. That being said, yes there is always room for another!
I wish them luck, but prefer my Sword & Sorcery without elves and dwarfs. Of concern is the promise that the game mechanics (not just the setting) will work with both their new 2d10 system and DnD 5e. Great if they can pull that off, but it is setting the challenge rather high. "Rise or Die" indeed.
Worst part is it will bring out from the woodwork everyone who thinks they understand statistics (but don't) to argue about normal curves and "swingyness". Crom, save us from that cosmic horror!
There's also Barbarians of Lemuria which is really simple and really good, as well as the recent Swords of the Serpentine which runs on the Gumshoe engine (no idea if it's any good).
There's also Through Sunken Lands from the authors of Beyond the Wall, another OSR take.
It's a small but very well served niche.
Quote from: TJS on June 01, 2021, 09:49:03 PM
...Ok more seriously.
I'm getting a serious "Fantasy Heartbreaker" vibe from this.
QuoteFlee
We use a three-dimensional (race, class, archetype) character creation system, where by removing the traditional "alignment" aspect of characters and introducing the archetype system, well-rounded personalities can be created and played out.
QuoteOur own 2d10 system is less random and unpredictable than the classic d20, but it offers the same ease when it comes to calculation and keeping track of events. By using two ten-sided dice, average rolls are more frequent and exceptional rolls, like natural 20s, even more valuable.
One should always be sceptical when a game boasts about solving problems that only D&D has.
I'll +1 this.
Plus - it's not REALLY 5e compatible if by default they use 2d10. The two are very similar - getting up to 20, but besides 2d10 averaging half a point higher, it isn't linear odds. So the odds for everything will be skewed wrong. A goblin which needs a 15+ to hit to PCs is a lot weaker in 2d10 then they are in 1d20. (21% vs 30% chance to hit) meaning that they do only 70% as much damage to the PCs. Generally speaking, as most fights favor the PCs, using the exact same attack/defense numbers for 2d10 will make most fights significantly easier.
If the system is actually finely tuned for 2d10 - claiming that it works fine with 1d20 sans adjustment is just wrong. This implies that the book is likely NOT finely tuned.
Well, the art looks awesome - despite being a bit too digital, it nails the "80s movie S&S" very well.
Using 2d10 is not a bad idea IMO, but I agree it is not really compatible with 5e.
Yes, goblins will soon be weaker, but OTOH dragons will become a lot scarier, etc. I think it fits the "Conan" vibe really well.
Quote from: TJS on June 02, 2021, 05:59:17 PM
Quote from: Vidgrip on June 02, 2021, 10:52:22 AM
There is one great 5e/PF setting for Sword & Sorcery which is even free (Xoth). There are several OSR games that cover this ground well, including Crypts & Things and ASSoH. Conan in various iterations is available, too. That being said, yes there is always room for another!
There's also Barbarians of Lemuria which is really simple and really good, as well as the recent Swords of the Serpentine which runs on the Gumshoe engine (no idea if it's any good).
There's also Through Sunken Lands from the authors of Beyond the Wall, another OSR take.
It's a small but very well served niche.
Also Low Fantasy Gaming, one of my favorites!
The old Conan D20 had lots of playable races, but all the races were different humans from different parts of the world. So I could dig it if they were human variants, but for some reason I picture Tiger men or some other such non humans.
I might give it a shot when they get it to retail. Not a big fan of kickstarter projects unless its something I have wanted for a long time. Backed a few and always got my stuff....but wow on the overshot timelines every company seems to operate on using kickstarter.
Quote from: Eric Diaz on June 04, 2021, 11:34:42 AM
Well, the art looks awesome - despite being a bit too digital, it nails the "80s movie S&S" very well.
Using 2d10 is not a bad idea IMO, but I agree it is not really compatible with 5e.
Yes, goblins will soon be weaker, but OTOH dragons will become a lot scarier, etc. I think it fits the "Conan" vibe really well.
I'm not saying that 2d10 is wrong. Or even that that alone dooms the book. But it's a simple/obvious thing which indicates a lack of polish for the whole thing.
I disagree. I prefer 2d10 personally.
Quote from: Batjon on June 04, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
I disagree. I prefer 2d10 personally.
What are you disagreeing with!? I have nothing against 2d10. I overall prefer having something of a bell curve in RPG systems as it can add more depth to tactical decisions. But a system needs to be designed with such in mind from the ground up.
My comment said nothing about 2d10 overall as a rolling system. I just made the (obvious) argument that 1d20 & 2d10 are different and act differently. So claiming that your system is BOTH based around 2d10 AND fully compatible with 5e (which is 1d20) is inherently flawed.
Even if you don't have a problem with that in particular - it seems indicative in a lack of polish and/or a lack of understanding dice probability (probably both).
Quote from: oggsmash on June 04, 2021, 12:18:07 PM
I might give it a shot when they get it to retail. Not a big fan of kickstarter projects unless its something I have wanted for a long time. Backed a few and always got my stuff....but wow on the overshot timelines every company seems to operate on using kickstarter.
I wouldn't bet on this one reaching it's goal. It's got a long way to go.
When we want S&S we use free ZeFRS.
https://sites.google.com/site/zefrsrpg/
Barbarians of Lemuria Mythic Edition is king for sword & sorcery.
What I disagree with is all the assumptions. I am willing to bet that things in the game have been set up with the premise of a 2d10 system in mind and balanced that way. I bet the 5e compatibility might require slight adjustments in order to work. I prefer the distribution of curved results that 2d10 gives in comparison to the spiky results of 1d20.
Here is an interview with the chief designer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svI0WkTz98&ab_channel=Mildra (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svI0WkTz98&ab_channel=Mildra)
Quote from: Batjon on June 05, 2021, 10:18:50 AM
Barbarians of Lemuria Mythic Edition is king for sword & sorcery.
What I disagree with is all the assumptions. I am willing to bet that things in the game have been set up with the premise of a 2d10 system in mind and balanced that way. I bet the 5e compatibility might require slight adjustments in order to work. I prefer the distribution of curved results that 2d10 gives in comparison to the spiky results of 1d20.
Here is an interview with the chief designer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svI0WkTz98&ab_channel=Mildra (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svI0WkTz98&ab_channel=Mildra)
Quote from: soundchaser on June 05, 2021, 08:42:08 AM
When we want S&S we use free ZeFRS.
https://sites.google.com/site/zefrsrpg/
Yeah, sword & sorcery seems to me like a crowded field with some very good games in it which already have a loyal following. Not sure how wise it is to take your fantasy heartbreaker and go head-to-head with the likes of Hyperborea (one of the very best OSR games by many accounts) and DCC RPG (a really amazingly well-built and unique D&D-derived game).
Despite the attempt at a hard sell, I'm having trouble seeing what this new thing brings to the table. 2d10? A "three dimensional" character creation system that really doesn't sound different from 5e's class/race/background? Storygame mechanics foisted upon roleplaying encounters? XP for something other than killing monsters? A stunt system? That all ranges from "I've seen that plenty of times before in similar games" to "ugh, no thanks."
Yeah that's what it comes down to. There's just nothing that there that sells the uniqueness of the product.