Conquest of the New (Fantasy) World

RPGPundit · October 03, 2018, 06:25:23 AM

Quote from: Zirunel;1058524I'm not surprised at all. If people come out of school with no geographic and historical framework to hang geographic and historical information on, then it's no surprise if Aztec, Maya, Hitler, ninjas, ancient Egypt, dinosaurs, Latvia and Uruguay all end up floating around together in the same perplexing soup.

It just surprises me because I was always a history/geography nerd. As a kid, I loved to learn about history and other cultures. I just can't grasp how some people don't give the slightest shit about that.

tenbones · October 03, 2018, 02:44:37 PM

This is no different than in Japan where their anime/manga/games use syncretized motifs, legends, myths, religions into their fantasy material.

They don't know wtf they're talking about either. But it looks cool. So they'll use it.

Only in the SJW bubble is it considered evil if you do it. (but only if you're white).

Zirunel · October 03, 2018, 02:59:12 PM

Quote from: tenbones;1058825This is no different than in Japan where their anime/manga/games use syncretized motifs, legends, myths, religions into their fantasy material.

They don't know wtf they're talking about either. But it looks cool. So they'll use it.

Only in the SJW bubble is it considered evil if you do it. (but only if you're white).

Nothing wrong with syncretism and pastiche in fiction and fantasy. But I thought Pundit was shaking his head about people's ignorance of real-world history and geography.

tenbones · October 03, 2018, 03:30:03 PM

Quote from: Zirunel;1058829Nothing wrong with syncretism and pastiche in fiction and fantasy. But I thought Pundit was shaking his head about people's ignorance of real-world history and geography.

Here? Sure.

Try saying that on The Big Purple...

Zirunel · October 03, 2018, 03:39:18 PM

Quote from: tenbones;1058832Here? Sure.

Try saying that on The Big Purple...

Ok, I'm interested, could you elaborate? Obviously I hear a lot about "TBP" here, but not sure what the objections to pastiche would be. Are we talking "appropriation of voice" or....other issues?

RPGPundit · October 05, 2018, 04:35:01 AM

Quote from: Zirunel;1058829Nothing wrong with syncretism and pastiche in fiction and fantasy. But I thought Pundit was shaking his head about people's ignorance of real-world history and geography.

Indeed I was. Syncretism and pastiche are to be expected in Fantasy.

3rik · October 05, 2018, 09:35:01 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;1058517I'm amazed for example, at how many people don't know the difference between Mayas and Aztecs.

Then, among those who do know, I'm amazed by how many people still believes the now decades-old discredited myth that Mayans were a peace-loving gentle people.

I'm amazed at how many people think that the Maya went extinct. That they were (and are) one politically united, culturally-homogenous people. And that Maya culture is somehow older (more ancient, more authentic, whatever the fuck they mean by that) than Aztec culture, which is a comparison that makes no sense at all.

Each person has stuff that they don't know anything about. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. It's just that a lot of people seem so unaware that there's stuff they don't know or know incorrectly.

WillInNewHaven · October 06, 2018, 01:46:00 AM

Quote from: 3rik;1059097I'm amazed at how many people think that the Maya went extinct. That they were (and are) one politically united, culturally-homogenous people. And that Maya culture is somehow older (more ancient, more authentic, whatever the fuck they mean by that) than Aztec culture, which is a comparison that makes no sense at all.

Each person has stuff that they don't know anything about. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. It's just that a lot of people seem so unaware that there's stuff they don't know or know incorrectly.

I was in a village in Mexico where the local priest and the three of us travelers were the only people who spoke Spanish. The rest spoke Mayan. I ran an adventure set in a similar small village where the characters had to get information with one local who could speak their language and they didn't know if she was a trustworthy translator.

The surprisingly unaware people I thought of when reading these last posts were the Japanese who had no knowledge of the Ainu.

3rik · October 07, 2018, 09:39:32 AM

Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1059109I was in a village in Mexico where the local priest and the three of us travelers were the only people who spoke Spanish. The rest spoke Mayan. I ran an adventure set in a similar small village where the characters had to get information with one local who could speak their language and they didn't know if she was a trustworthy translator.

The surprisingly unaware people I thought of when reading these last posts were the Japanese who had no knowledge of the Ainu.

I trust that by Mayan you mean Yucatec, which is often referred to as Mayan but is of course by no means the only Mayan language that still exists.

And yes, Japanese not knowing a single thing about the Ainu seems... very ignorant. My Mexican family-in-law - except for my wife who studied ethnobiology and did field work among a couple of indigenous communities - is not particularly knowledgable about Mexican indigenous people either, but at least they are aware and have a rough idea of their history and geography.

Shawn Driscoll · October 07, 2018, 02:50:16 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;1057704Did you mean to say "your Americas"?

Oops. Yes.

RPGPundit · October 11, 2018, 06:26:08 AM

Yes, I spent a good while in the Mayan part of Mexico, and it's certainly true that the Mayan culture didn't die. Only Mayan Civilization did.

3rik · October 11, 2018, 09:21:09 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;1059721Yes, I spent a good while in the Mayan part of Mexico, and it's certainly true that the Mayan culture didn't die. Only Mayan Civilization did.

While Classic Maya Civilization in the southern Maya lowlands "collapsed" - i.e. cities declined and were abandoned - during the 8th and 9th century, upto the Conquest there was still very much a Mayan civilization with flourishing city-states in the highlands and northern lowlands of the Maya region. This civilization was eventually destroyed during the conquest. Lots of people seem to think that all the Maya mysteriously went extinct during the Classic Maya collapse and apparently aren't even aware of the city-states the conquistadors encountered in Yucatan and the Maya Highlands or where the heck the present-day Maya must have come from. Must've been aliens.

RPGPundit · October 15, 2018, 02:41:17 AM

Quote from: 3rik;1059808While Classic Maya Civilization in the southern Maya lowlands "collapsed" - i.e. cities declined and were abandoned - during the 8th and 9th century, upto the Conquest there was still very much a Mayan civilization with flourishing city-states in the highlands and northern lowlands of the Maya region. This civilization was eventually destroyed during the conquest. Lots of people seem to think that all the Maya mysteriously went extinct during the Classic Maya collapse and apparently aren't even aware of the city-states the conquistadors encountered in Yucatan and the Maya Highlands or where the heck the present-day Maya must have come from. Must've been aliens.

Those city-states were more like a descendant-civilization. But with regards to your last point, yes, there's a lot of that idiocy.