Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on May 21, 2023, 10:47:07 AM

Quote from: SHARK on May 19, 2023, 03:57:38 PM

Greetings!

Yes. I love reading books. It is also a joy to collect them. So, I like buying them and having them in my personal library. I don't think I am satisfied with borrowing books from libraries.

Have you watched the videos I linked? What do you think of the videos?

And the wonderful film, Mongol?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Oh, indeed. The vids have been very elucidating. Just haven't watched the film yet. Thanks again!

Greetings!

OUTSTANDING MY FRIEND! I'm glad that you have enjoyed them. The narration, the ART, the Music, just are really incredible, and so enjoyable. All in addition to solid historical truth. Really good stuff!

"Crush them all under the hooves of your wrath!"

*Laughing* How is that not a an awesome quote?

It's funny, too. Who knew that the Mongols were doing memes back then, right? *Laughing*

I'm always amazed at how thorough the Mongols are, though. It is also interesting to see how the Mongols--previously, these filthy, primitive, factionalized barbarians--take absolutely fanatical loyalty, discipline, and professionalism--and ruthlessness--to a whole different level. I'm always thinking of this, comparing the Mongols to say, the Muslim Caliphates, or the European states. They so often look like amateurs by comparison. So many of the Mongol's opponents are plagued by ideas, outmoded thinking, strife, and pettiness--that the Mongols have entirely left behind.

There are some solid reasons why more than one historian has described the Mongol Horde as being the age's first, truly "Modern" military force. I'd say of the "Era"--I think Rome was certainly close to being a professional military force, even by "Modern" standards. But the Mongols came over a thousand years after Rome, so yeah. The Mongols were definitely a game changer.

That's why in the US military, we also study the Romans and the Mongols.

I also enjoyed the Assassin Campaign video. Amazing how determined and ruthless the Mongols were!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jhkim on May 18, 2023, 10:59:09 AM
Yes, thanks, SHARK. I watched the first video on Khwarazmian Empire, and then read a little more on it.

I was intrigued to hear about the Mongol aspirations to trade routes. The video had a lot of purple prose about the fighting, but what was fascinating to me is the richness of the Mongol trade caravan to Otrar in 1218. Genghis Khan put a lot of effort into sending out a rich trade caravan to Khwarazmia, only to have its hundreds of Mongol traders slaughtered and their goods stolen.

It seems like the war with Khwarazmia was the pivot where the Mongols turned from having local ambitions against the Xia and Jin, to wanting to become a world-spanning empire like Macedonia earlier or Britain later.

I've wanted to learn more about central Asian history, which is often a huge black hole in most people's historical knowledge.

Has anyone had a Mongol or central Asian themed campaign? I could see having that as a future campaign setting.

Greetings!

Jhkim, I have started a separate Thread on Central Asian Steppe Campaigns in the main menu.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on May 17, 2023, 09:48:30 PM
Greetings!

Here is one of my favorite historical films. Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan.
The film covers Temudjen's early years as a child, growing into manhood, and the battles and struggles along the way, culminating in a final battle and his rise from being Temudjen, to being Genghis Khan.

The movie has English subtitles, and is otherwise very accurate in language, equipment, weaponry, and more. The film features some really outstanding actors, excellent musical soundtrack, writing, direction, action, and cinematography. The film was done on location in Mongolia, Russia, and Kazakhstan.

It is a gripping film, showing his romance with his first and primary wife, Borte, complex family and tribal relationships, all taking place with the backdrop of Temudjen's frequent hardships and tribulations. Seeing him slowly rise to gain absolute power and authority is exhilarating. Mongolia, and the entire world, will be forever changed.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

Here is the I'm you need to see, S'mon!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on May 24, 2023, 07:07:58 PM

Quote from: SHARK on May 17, 2023, 09:48:30 PM
Greetings!

Here is one of my favorite historical films. Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan.
The film covers Temudjen's early years as a child, growing into manhood, and the battles and struggles along the way, culminating in a final battle and his rise from being Temudjen, to being Genghis Khan.

The movie has English subtitles, and is otherwise very accurate in language, equipment, weaponry, and more. The film features some really outstanding actors, excellent musical soundtrack, writing, direction, action, and cinematography. The film was done on location in Mongolia, Russia, and Kazakhstan.

It is a gripping film, showing his romance with his first and primary wife, Borte, complex family and tribal relationships, all taking place with the backdrop of Temudjen's frequent hardships and tribulations. Seeing him slowly rise to gain absolute power and authority is exhilarating. Mongolia, and the entire world, will be forever changed.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

Here is the I'm you need to see, S'mon!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Blocked in the UK/EU by Beta Film GmbH, sadly!

QuoteFor religious and kinship reasons, Muslims and Christians rarely went that far, though the sack of cities could certainly be very brutal. The Mongols were on another level. I do get the impression that the Indo-European/Wagon People/Battleaxe Culture invasion of the north European plain, previously inhabited by Early European Farmers descended from the first agriculturists in the Levant & Anatolia, may have been similarly genocidal, if not so well organised or swift.

Doubtful. Indoeuropeans took control over most of Europe - but Neolithic Farmers with few exceptions like Celtic invasion on Ireland were subjugated and assimilated. It's seen quite nice on genetic level - IE haplogroup R1 dominates most Europe in male lineages, but in terms of overall genetics - southern Europe can be between 60 to 90% of overall Neolithic DNA. They were very populous people for their times and IE prefered to vassalize them, rather than destroy them.

So did Mongols - those grand campaigns of destruction were done against opponents, traitors and commonly when Mongols envoys were disrespected.
But most of population of Mongolian Empire stayed in their original form.

Also ability to do such massive actions were part of Temujin genius - as he organised his soldiers in very professional formations under strict code of conduct - they were most pro army around the world - and they were massive because every adult men among nomadic Mongols and Turks was both shepard and warrior. So when Europeans and Muslims could mobilize 5-10% of men, Genghis Khan could mobilize whole nations. Neither Muslims nor Crusaders had forces to just overwhelm Assassins all at once. Mongols did.

QuoteYes, I've long thought that the only way to truly eradicate the Taliban is to hire Mongol mercenaries.  The late Qing military did similar things to Muslim rebels in northwest China in the 1860s-70s.  They supposedly killed up to 90% of the Muslims living in the affected provinces.  They later crushed a jihad in Central Asia.  The survivors of that are now known as the Uighurs....

Not sure if there are any mercenaries in Mongolia to do it.
Alas I also think it's way easier to genocide cities and strongholds than hideouts of highlander clans in part of tallest mountains of world.
Pashto folk are well accustomed to it and no one through millenia managed to root them out. Even with modern tech NATO forces were unable to really find all those hidden places.

Quote from: Wrath of God on June 13, 2023, 05:21:20 PM
Doubtful. Indoeuropeans took control over most of Europe - but Neolithic Farmers with few exceptions like Celtic invasion on Ireland were subjugated and assimilated. It's seen quite nice on genetic level - IE haplogroup R1 dominates most Europe in male lineages, but in terms of overall genetics - southern Europe can be between 60 to 90% of overall Neolithic DNA.

I did specify the North European Plain, where there seems to have been near-complete genetic replacement.

Quote from: S'mon on June 13, 2023, 05:35:16 PM

Quote from: Wrath of God on June 13, 2023, 05:21:20 PM
Doubtful. Indoeuropeans took control over most of Europe - but Neolithic Farmers with few exceptions like Celtic invasion on Ireland were subjugated and assimilated. It's seen quite nice on genetic level - IE haplogroup R1 dominates most Europe in male lineages, but in terms of overall genetics - southern Europe can be between 60 to 90% of overall Neolithic DNA.

I did specify the North European Plain, where there seems to have been near-complete genetic replacement.

Greetings!

Yes, S'mon! There were some Farmer Peoples that managed to survive in Sardinia! *Laughing* As far as Southern Europe, well, the Celts, the Greeks, and the Romans are all INDO-EUROPEAN. So, while the Indo-European armies may have focused on Northern Europe, they conquered most of Southern Europe as well. The Celts were all through Gaul, Northern Iberia, Northern Italy, Illyria, Dacia, parts of Greece, and even extended into Northern Turkey--where the land of Galatia was established, namesake for the Biblical Book of Galatians, and known well into the Dark Ages even for being a uniquely Celtic people, right there in the middle of Northern Turkey! *Laughing* I would say such proves that the Indo-European Conquest was very extensive.

Wrath of God's take away about genetics studies may have some merit, but it is at best a minor element. History, Language, Religion, from all the major areas of Europe are Indo-European. That's why the only remnants of the Farmer People according to Historians, Linguists, and Archaeologists, are the Sardinians and some potential tribes in Southern Spain.

The Indo-European Conquest was THOROUGH.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on May 17, 2023, 04:46:55 AM
I was reviewing some campaign notes recently, and was looking over material concerning the ubiquitous Thieves' Guild found throughout gaming and then I was thinking about expanding some material on Assassin's Brotherhoods in my campaign world. I definitely have some religions and political factions that would embrace and support such shadowy organizations!

Does your campaigns have such organizations? How do you detail them? Have they played a prominent role within an area's politics or religion?

I haven't used an Assassins Guild in my campaigns but when I do I'll model it as a medieval fantasy version of the "High Table" in the John Wick Movies.

Thieves Guilds are already loosely modeled after organized crime with most of their money coming from prostitutions, drugs, gambling, protection rackets, and stealing from warehouses owned by Fat Merchants not from picking pockets and burglary.

About 15 years ago I got really fascinated by the assassins and did as much research as I could.  (I'm not an academic, just a guy with autism.)  The reality is that there's very little known about them because they were so secretive.  The current wikipedia page does a good job of giving a cliff notes overview of everything I was able to find.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Assassins

A few interesting side notes I discovered during my delves into the available material:

1. Assassins were considered a separate religion by many and not Islamic.  It still exists today as a quasi sect of Islam called Isma'ili and has it's own Imam.

2. They weren't the only other non-primary religious or political group in the area involved with the Crusades.  Various Christian sects of Eastern Orthodoxy and even pre Counsel of Nicaea Christian chruches were very active.  Also, there were active sects of Zoroastrianism and animistic religions.  The vast majority of faction divisions were based on both ethnic background and religion simultaneously. 

3. Much of the "killers for hire" idea that was had about them was from after they were destroyed by the Mongols.  A local scholar claimed that they would kill for a fixed price about 100 years after the last stronghold fell.  Whether that was him making it up or if there were families of survivors making a living as hired killers is not verified by anything I've ever come across.

4. The timing of the fall of the Hasssasin lines up with the birth Iga style Shinobi in Japan.  There is a thin but possible connection.  (Personally, I think it more likely they were refugees from noble families in China.  Much of what they did was based on interpretations of Sun Tzu's Art of War.)   

Edit: Grammar

QuoteI did specify the North European Plain, where there seems to have been near-complete genetic replacement.

Also not.
Pictures presents Paleolithic European DNA and Neolithic Farmer DNa in modern Europeans. Even in places where local genocide happened - like Ireland - IE were so mixed when they got their - that modern genetics is still mixed.

QuoteYes, S'mon! There were some Farmer Peoples that managed to survive in Sardinia! *Laughing* As far as Southern Europe, well, the Celts, the Greeks, and the Romans are all INDO-EUROPEAN. So, while the Indo-European armies may have focused on Northern Europe, they conquered most of Southern Europe as well. The Celts were all through Gaul, Northern Iberia, Northern Italy, Illyria, Dacia, parts of Greece, and even extended into Northern Turkey--where the land of Galatia was established, namesake for the Biblical Book of Galatians, and known well into the Dark Ages even for being a uniquely Celtic people, right there in the middle of Northern Turkey! *Laughing* I would say such proves that the Indo-European Conquest was very extensive.

I do not deny IE conquest. I deny genetic replacement that happened with it.
Almost everywhere in Europe Neolithic Farmers are large chunk of population genetics.
As we know PIE were about 50% Siberian Ancestral North Eurasians - we can see that best you can get in Europe is about 25% of ANE ergo 50% of Yamnaya.
Destroying Farmers would be honestly just dumb.

QuoteWrath of God's take away about genetics studies may have some merit, but it is at best a minor element. History, Language, Religion, from all the major areas of Europe are Indo-European. That's why the only remnants of the Farmer People according to Historians, Linguists, and Archaeologists, are the Sardinians and some potential tribes in Southern Spain.

If culture and religion are dominant then I have no idea why you exclude Sardinians. Sardinians speak Italic language (with some nonIE elements but guess what - all IE languages have a lot of those) and they are culturally Romance people, Catholics. If you want to find some survivors preIE then of course only ones who at least kept their homeland and language are Basks (who were originally mix of hunters with farmers). But even them are genetically mixed.