Quote from: vytzka;620799I get what you're saying, but I prefer both male and female fighters to be skinny. I'm a rather girly looking man myself and I simply find it easier to imagine myself as those kind of folks - I don't really have any idea what it means to be a buff dude.

Also, when you're looking at essentially superhuman characters, at some point it ceases to matter how much muscle mass they really have - if they can punch out a dragon, they can punch out a dragon. It's for a similar reason that I really appreciate impractical and largely useless outfits - when someone lives a life of fighting and openly eschews advantages provided by sensible and protective gear, that's how you know who you should really not mess with.

edit: Wen Yu Li has my back. This is canonically the strongest man in the Anima setting.

Spoiler

I seem to remember it having been filmed in Lithuania?

This is purely a preference issue. I think there is nothing wrong with your position. But, and I am saying this as 5'7" guy with a slender frame, I really find it hard to believe in an image of a fighter when they don't look athletic or a bit muscled. Not expecting arnold, but am expecting more than skin and bone.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;620785There already is a 3rd one.  I saw it on Sci-Fi the other day.  It was the worst of them all.  The main guy literally just walked into a magic shop and bought these rare artifacts like he was on an old version of Wheel of Fortune during the Showcase Showdown.

I swear that these movies had to be created by people who want RPGs to die in a fire.  There's just no other explanation as to why they'd create something this bad.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;620806This is purely a preference issue. I think there is nothing wrong with your position. But, and I am saying this as 5'7" guy with a slender frame, I really find it hard to believe in an image of a fighter when they don't look athletic or a bit muscled. Not expecting arnold, but am expecting more than skin and bone.

That's fair, and ideally there would be art to satisfy both of our preferences (and I think there is).

Quote from: vytzka;620809That's fair, and ideally there would be art to satisfy both of our preferences (and I think there is).

Well, I am not going to not buy a book over this. It is just a minor gripe I have.

Quote from: vytzka;620799I get what you're saying, but I prefer both male and female fighters to be skinny. I'm a rather girly looking man myself and I simply find it easier to imagine myself as those kind of folks - I don't really have any idea what it means to be a buff dude.

One of my players has similar tastes. She loves her characters to be slim pixie-ish waifs or bishounen men but usually deadly fighters. To be fair, they're agility focused more than raw power and their weapons/tactics tend to reflect that.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;620754I think my biggest gripe with female warriors in a lot of art is too often they have no muscle or athletic build. I would expect them to look more like athletes  I suppose.

Yeah, I like warriors (and adventurers in general) to have a toned build. They don't have to look like steroid monsters, of course but generally in good shape: A dancer or swimmer's build, for instance. Of course, there's exceptions. Mages and other less physical types have more lee way.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;620757I like implausibly sexy cheesecake. I like Red Sonja's chainmail bikini and the slutty Drow costumes. Maybe that says something about me, maybe not, but I don't and won't agonize over it.

I like the sexy warrior look too. Hell, I like it for women and men. I can understand the desire for variety and it doesn't work for every genre and setting. But I don't demand "realism" either. I want my characters and settings to be exciting, cool looking and yeah, even sexy. But its all subjective. The problem with most of the discussions like this I've seen is there seemed to be no allowance made for subjectivity or taste unfortunately.

Personally, I dislike heavy armors like full plate. It just looks cumbersome, clunky and ugly to me. I avoid setting where its required and generally try to design characters that wear as little armor as feasible. The one time where images of "chainmail bikinis" (and loincloth barbarians) do rub me the wrong way is when its not an accurate depiction of the world in question. It feels like a bait and switch.

Quote from: TristramEvans;620591Mainly because the "pervasive cheesecake" hasnt really been a thing in the industry in about a decade. Outside of D&d/Pathfinder, one would be very hard-pressed to find any cheesecake in any RPgs published since the d20 glut.

I was curious about that as my experience has been the same. There doesn't seem to be that much of what I'd call "cheesecake" in recent rpg art. In other threads many of examples seem to be fairly old (10 or more years) or gathered from Google searches so its not clear if they've ever been in an rpg book or how common they are (Google results are based on popularity, IIRC and sexy pictures are going to be popular). Some of the posters in one of the petition threads even said (or let it slip) that they hadn't looked at a D and D book recently.

Quote from: TristramEvans;620769t. And having an art degree and as someone who used to regularly draw and sell cheesecake art (to a majority female customer base, amusingly enough), .

That's interesting... most of the more overtly sexy character designs and descriptions in my games have been created and played by women.

I wasn't specifically praising the image I'd singled out; I was only pointing out that I personally tend to generally prefer RPG art of women who look like actual adventurers rather than being dressed and posed like playboy models.

RPGPundit

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;620810Well, I am not going to not buy a book over this. It is just a minor gripe I have.

You sir, have a disappointing lack of rage.  This is serious buzness you know.

Quote from: RPGPundit;620825I wasn't specifically praising the image I'd singled out; I was only pointing out that I personally tend to generally prefer RPG art of women who look like actual adventurers rather than being dressed and posed like playboy models.

Yeah, you gotta wonder what some of these artists have been using for their anatomical references...

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;620806This is purely a preference issue. I think there is nothing wrong with your position. But, and I am saying this as 5'7" guy with a slender frame, I really find it hard to believe in an image of a fighter when they don't look athletic or a bit muscled. Not expecting arnold, but am expecting more than skin and bone.

I like intelligent decisions when it comes to the portrayal of mighty warriors. Take for example Al's right hand man in Deadwood, he was a big fat lumpy looking brute, because that's what the muscle men looked like back then. And of course we also have the heroes in The 13th Warrior, not a man under 35.

I've no idea why someone's physique might influence what they see as physically powerful though, I'd appear stocky till you realise I'm six one but I have no illusions about what the likes of a wedge-shaped weightlifter could do if they got annoyed enough.

So I guess here's a vote for the conspicuously absent fat bastards.

Quote from: The Traveller;620839I have no illusions about what the likes of a wedge-shaped weightlifter could do if they got annoyed enough.

Weightlifter's usually aren't cut and ripped like bodybuilders.  Bodybuilders can lift a lot of weight, so can weightlifters, but take one of those guys and tack on 60-100 pounds of fat and he's gonna generate a whole lot more momentum.

Quote from: The Traveller;620839So I guess here's a vote for the conspicuously absent fat bastards.

Yeah, power-lifters aren't the prettiest men on Earth. I wouldn't mind having a couple on my side in a brawl, either. So the misrepresentation goes beyond just women.

I did my senior thesis in ethics on comics books. And during my presentation I showed the class a picture by Adi Granov of She-Hulk and Spider-man. I asked the class to point out unrealistic things about the picture. Of course everyone talked about She-Hulk, but no one mentioned Spider-man's sculpted body, washboard abs, amazing shoulders, perfect pecs, etc, etc.

I don't have a problem with cheesecake for the sake of cheesecake, but I also want shit to look cool. I don't want naked broads on the cover just for the sake of having nudity on it. Give me "Cool." That's the most important part.

And as far as defining that, I'll go with the Supreme Court's ruling on pornography. "I know it when I see it."

Quote from: flyerfan1991;620787Of course, if the warrior tradition in her country has a lot of long haired warriors, tying back the hair isn't an issue.

Could be in her culture all knights wear their hair long so they can braid it, coil it, and wear it as cushioning under the helm.

Quote from: mythusmage;620848Could be in her culture all knights wear their hair long so they can braid it, coil it, and wear it as cushioning under the helm.

Yep.  Good one.

I also like the idea of shaving the head, putting a tattoo on it, and letting the hair grow back.  Kind of a rite of passage for a warrior.

Quote from: Kaz;620843Yeah, power-lifters aren't the prettiest men on Earth. I wouldn't mind having a couple on my side in a brawl, either. So the misrepresentation goes beyond just women.

This is clearly "what about the menz" which is forbidden.  No acknowledgement of stereotypes of the majority is allowed.  

Quote from: Sacrosanct;620859This is clearly "what about the menz" which is forbidden.  No acknowledgement of stereotypes of the majority is allowed.  

I don't mind talking about male stereotypes, it's just that the uber-buff guy is also a male fantasy.  It ain't my male fantasy, but I can see where they're coming from.  But since that acknowledgement is out of the way, we can carry on.