Besides, who said ladies get to have all the (un)fun of sexualised poses and impractical outfits? This is the character I based my D&D 4e Avenger on, Testament from Guilty Gear.

trigger warning: girly dudes, improperly weaponised scythes made of blood

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Quote from: vytzka;620937Likewise, people see a woman fighter wearing boobplate and leg armor with thighs explosed and go all omg that is terrible, she's going to die. I see that and my mind goes "well she's not dead yet so either it's not that inconvenient or she's just so good at fighting that it doesn't inconvenience her at all".

The physics of why boobplate armour is a terrible, terrible idea is quite nicely illustrated here so I don't think you can handwave it away with "Clearly it isn't as big a deal as all that" (quite evidently it is if you're going for physics which work at all like our world) and I'm not sure you can really handwave it away by saying "She's so good she can account for the inconvenience". (If she's that good, why does she hamper herself with the inconvenience in the first place? I mean, maybe I can see fighters deliberately hampering themselves in situations like tourneys where they are specifically trying to show off but there's no space for that sort of showboating in an actual battle.)

Which isn't to say you are wrong for liking that art style but you do have to bite the bullet and say "No, it isn't realistic, and I like it that way because I'm specifically into fantasy settings with an aesthetic which deviates sharply from realism". Trying to weasel in some sort of plausible explanation as to why it isn't so unrealistic after all is a doomed affair because reality isn't a matter of negotiation.

Quote from: vytzka;620940Besides, who said ladies get to have all the (un)fun of sexualised poses and impractical outfits? This is the character I based my D&D 4e Avenger on, Testament from Guilty Gear.

trigger warning: girly dudes, improperly weaponised scythes made of blood

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Yes please.

Quote from: Warthur;620942The physics of why boobplate armour is a terrible, terrible idea is quite nicely illustrated here so I don't think you can handwave it away with "Clearly it isn't as big a deal as all that" (quite evidently it is if you're going for physics which work at all like our world) and I'm not sure you can really handwave it away by saying "She's so good she can account for the inconvenience".

To be honest, correct simulation of boob physics is not very high in my list of priorities when I'm looking at how well the game art portrays its setting or whatever. So while I appreciate you finding the link for me, it is not going to influence my tastes in game art a great deal.

Quote(If she's that good, why does she hamper herself with the inconvenience in the first place? I mean, maybe I can see fighters deliberately hampering themselves in situations like tourneys where they are specifically trying to show off but there's no space for that sort of showboating in an actual battle.)

I dunno, maybe you should ask her? Maybe she's trying to look cooler or sexier? Those are hardly unnatural for people and there has been LOTS of showboating in battle (ever heard about doppelsoldners?). Evidently it's not enough of a problem for her or she would adjust to more practical clothing?

Why do you think she's wearing it?

QuoteWhich isn't to say you are wrong for liking that art style but you do have to bite the bullet and say "No, it isn't realistic, and I like it that way because I'm specifically into fantasy settings with an aesthetic which deviates sharply from realism". Trying to weasel in some sort of plausible explanation as to why it isn't so unrealistic after all is a doomed affair because reality isn't a matter of negotiation.

I never said it was realistic. I said it was reasonable and/or plausible. You're trying to say "yes but it's not realistic" as if it somehow contradicts me. I admit it. It's unrealistic, okay. And that doesn't mean diddly because there have been flamewars going on in Dragon about whether D&D is/isn't/should/shouldn't be realistic before I was born.


Now if you ask me if women should wear boobplate in Sword's Path Glory I'll agree with you that they shouldn't because there's probably a table for results of just that.

Quote from: Warthur;620942The physics of why boobplate armour is a terrible, terrible idea is quite nicely illustrated here so I don't think you can handwave it away with "Clearly it isn't as big a deal as all that" (quite evidently it is if you're going for physics which work at all like our world) and I'm not sure you can really handwave it away by saying "She's so good she can account for the inconvenience". (If she's that good, why does she hamper herself with the inconvenience in the first place? I mean, maybe I can see fighters deliberately hampering themselves in situations like tourneys where they are specifically trying to show off but there's no space for that sort of showboating in an actual battle.)

Which isn't to say you are wrong for liking that art style but you do have to bite the bullet and say "No, it isn't realistic, and I like it that way because I'm specifically into fantasy settings with an aesthetic which deviates sharply from realism". Trying to weasel in some sort of plausible explanation as to why it isn't so unrealistic after all is a doomed affair because reality isn't a matter of negotiation.

The one justification i can think of for it, is it may be ceremonial armor not intended for use in battle (and the character may use it anyway for ome other reason). There is plenty of armor out there that had all kinds of useless or counter productive decor on it, but the intention was for display not battle. Definitely seen some real armors with enormous cod pieces that I think would be hard to justify (unless I am mising something and they served as a kind of medieval cup----though it looks like it just makes it a bigger target).

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;620950The one justification i can think of for it, is it may be ceremonial armor not intended for use in battle (and the character may use it anyway for ome other reason). There is plenty of armor out there that had all kinds of useless or counter productive decor on it, but the intention was for display not battle. Definitely seen some real armors with enormous cod pieces that I think would be hard to justify (unless I am mising something and they served as a kind of medieval cup----though it looks like it just makes it a bigger target).

I can see it as ceremonial armor, definitely.  But meant to be worn in battle?  All it takes is a few destroyed sternums to abuse people of the idea of separate cups in armor.  Besides, we're applying current bra/corset standards to armor.  Before then, bindings weren't a modern cup shape.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;620953Besides, we're applying current bra/corset standards to armor.  Before then, bindings weren't a modern cup shape.

This one is easy.

Fantasy armor is shaped like that because we're used to the bra/corset shape and it looks good to us. Not to some fictional medieval/Forgottenrealmser people, to us. The actual audience. That the art is intended for.

Quote from: vytzka;620940Besides, who said ladies get to have all the (un)fun of sexualised poses and impractical outfits? This is the character I based my D&D 4e Avenger on, Testament from Guilty Gear.

trigger warning: girly dudes, improperly weaponised scythes made of blood

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Millia was the best from that series.

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Yes, omgthighs, but this is a character who uses her hair as a weapon... compared to that, anything else seems practically believable. Everybody in GG has given up even pretending to make sense.

Quote from: vytzka;620955This one is easy.

Fantasy armor is shaped like that because we're used to the bra/corset shape and it looks good to us. Not to some fictional medieval/Forgottenrealmser people, to us. The actual audience. That the art is intended for.

But I want to see what the people in the setting see. Not what the artists concerned think we want to see.

Like I said above, I can see sexy anywhere, but the books are my only opportunity to see setting-authentic.

In other words, it's perfectly workable in a more stylized universe?  That's what I'm getting out of it, and I agree if that's the case.  It's just that preferences and thresholds for style over reality very from person-to-person.

And that's okay.  

Quote from: Ladybird;620956Millia was the best from that series.

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Yes, omgthighs, but this is a character who uses her hair as a weapon... compared to that, anything else seems practically believable. Everybody in GG has given up even pretending to make sense.

I don't think anyone really pretended that much... Anyway Millia is awesome, yeah, though I'm more of a fan of Baiken (one of the few characters that makes cybernetic implants look good enough for me as I normally hate the stuff).

QuoteBut I want to see what the people in the setting see. Not what the artists concerned think we want to see.

Like I said above, I can see sexy anywhere, but the books are my only opportunity to see setting-authentic.

Well if we wax philosophical about it then I could say you can't really do that, because you lack anything near the correct frame of mind to see things in the same way someone born in the setting would so everything you see must be filtered through the lens of the modern viewer. For a very simple example, you and our hypothetical medieval/elven viewer will find different things attractive and you can only do something to a degree.

Of course, that is both depressing and might sound at least a little bit dishonest so I'll concede the point to you.

Come to think of it, it would definitely be interesting to see an "authentic" medieval/Rennaissance take on, ahem, sexed up female warrior outfits for lack of a better term.

Quote from: vytzka;620940Besides, who said ladies get to have all the (un)fun of sexualised poses and impractical outfits? This is the character I based my D&D 4e Avenger on, Testament from Guilty Gear.

trigger warning: girly dudes, improperly weaponised scythes made of blood

Spoiler

Bridget from Guilty Gear trumps all in terms of girly dudes in sexualized poses and impractical outfits. English twin boy, raised as a girl because identical sex twins are bad luck, dressed as a sexualized acolyte nun, with an oversized handcuff as belt, and fights with a teddy bear and yo-yo.

*Boooooooooooooom* /head explode-y

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Japan looks at a topic like this and says, "all your arguments are belong to us." We are helpless against their non-Euclidean geometry.

PS: You really do not want to go search up more images on this character without knowing what you're getting into. I tried to find a tame, while iconic, promotional image from the publisher for this post. And deviant artists and cosplayers have had such a field day that you're going to get a heaping of O_o along with your search. Fair warning.

Quote from: The Butcher;620934Declaring one's fondness for oversized anime swords, is pretty much establishing that you don't care much for verisimilitude or consistency, let alone historicity.

Um no. Declaring my fondness for Pop Tarts doesn't mean I don't care much for Capn Crunch or Waffles. Every game doesn't need to be the same genre or style.

Quote from: elfandghost;620939Have you seen this?
Article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21033708

And yet, thats horrible, but the Romance genre, which regularly outsells EVERY othe rgenre of fiction by several magnitudes is all about picture sof beefcake designed to appeal to women.

Quotethis: http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/ which recreates those pictures of revealing women in comic art and replaces them with Hawkeye to see if it still works. They largely don't.

Just like putting human beings in poses by Spider-man don't work. The big problem here is that a large number of people don't know how to tell the difference between sexism and bad art. Its funny how little sexism one finds when one specifically avoids bad art.

They actually had a backstory for Bridget and everything! Apparently if twins of the same gender are born in that village, it's a very bad sign so they, ahem, made one of them dress as a girl.

But yeah, Guilty Gear character designer was on crack. The good kind.

Speaking of video game character's, here's a gorgeous fan picture of Celes Chere from Final Fantasy VI.

I like boobies.