Quote from: The Traveller;620839I have no illusions about what the likes of a wedge-shaped weightlifter could do if they got annoyed enough.

Weightlifter's usually aren't cut and ripped like bodybuilders.  Bodybuilders can lift a lot of weight, so can weightlifters, but take one of those guys and tack on 60-100 pounds of fat and he's gonna generate a whole lot more momentum.

Quote from: The Traveller;620839So I guess here's a vote for the conspicuously absent fat bastards.

Yeah, power-lifters aren't the prettiest men on Earth. I wouldn't mind having a couple on my side in a brawl, either. So the misrepresentation goes beyond just women.

I did my senior thesis in ethics on comics books. And during my presentation I showed the class a picture by Adi Granov of She-Hulk and Spider-man. I asked the class to point out unrealistic things about the picture. Of course everyone talked about She-Hulk, but no one mentioned Spider-man's sculpted body, washboard abs, amazing shoulders, perfect pecs, etc, etc.

I don't have a problem with cheesecake for the sake of cheesecake, but I also want shit to look cool. I don't want naked broads on the cover just for the sake of having nudity on it. Give me "Cool." That's the most important part.

And as far as defining that, I'll go with the Supreme Court's ruling on pornography. "I know it when I see it."

Quote from: flyerfan1991;620787Of course, if the warrior tradition in her country has a lot of long haired warriors, tying back the hair isn't an issue.

Could be in her culture all knights wear their hair long so they can braid it, coil it, and wear it as cushioning under the helm.

Quote from: mythusmage;620848Could be in her culture all knights wear their hair long so they can braid it, coil it, and wear it as cushioning under the helm.

Yep.  Good one.

I also like the idea of shaving the head, putting a tattoo on it, and letting the hair grow back.  Kind of a rite of passage for a warrior.

Quote from: Kaz;620843Yeah, power-lifters aren't the prettiest men on Earth. I wouldn't mind having a couple on my side in a brawl, either. So the misrepresentation goes beyond just women.

This is clearly "what about the menz" which is forbidden.  No acknowledgement of stereotypes of the majority is allowed.  

Quote from: Sacrosanct;620859This is clearly "what about the menz" which is forbidden.  No acknowledgement of stereotypes of the majority is allowed.  

I don't mind talking about male stereotypes, it's just that the uber-buff guy is also a male fantasy.  It ain't my male fantasy, but I can see where they're coming from.  But since that acknowledgement is out of the way, we can carry on.

Quote from: vytzka;620661Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know we were talking about history. I thought the topic was art in fantasy games.

As in, not real.

Do you complain that Conan isn't wearing enough armor too?

Also, your first picture is boring as fuck and would turn me off your product. The second is nice.

Depends on context right. Conan is not a knight I was talking about female knights. A feamle barbarian would be differently dressed because the likelihood is that her culture lacks the technology to build plate armour.

Also usage. I stated in another post that was talking about weapon v armour that realistically no one would wear plate armour if they were an "adventurer" whch is to say someone exploring, travelling and getting into ad hoc fights. It's hot, impractical, slow and you can't climb in it.You can't shoot a bow etc etc . Now as I watched Brienne of Tarth drag Jamie Lannister round Westeros I actually began to think Plate mail might be okay for a journey providing you aren't climbing and jumping too much.
 
The most likely adventurer kit is a chain mail shirt (thigh length) or a breastplate with sturdy boots or maybe 1/2 greaves, leather on the arms, open face helmet.

So I don't think a female knight and a female adventurer would look the same at all.

On that basis the really odd thing is that the one person who isn't going to be doing a lot of climbing and exploring is usually the wizard so he should be the one in the armour. In a role context he is your artilery and artilery is generally well armoured and immobile.

Quote from: vytzka;620661Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know we were talking about history. I thought the topic was art in fantasy games.

As in, not real.

This is a cop-out.

Quote from: vytzka;620661Do you complain that Conan isn't wearing enough armor too?

No, I complain when games insist on giving Conan a better armor class instead of more hit points.

But Conan actually wears armor in the books, so your point is moot anyway.

Quote from: vytzka;620661Also, your first picture is boring as fuck and would turn me off your product.

All of the pictures you posted in the thread turn me off.

Yay, diversity.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;620880This is a cop-out.

It's not a cop out. It's rejecting criticism that is inappropriate for the context.



This is Cloud Strife with the Fusion Sword(s). If you try to tell me that sword is unrealistic and too heavy to use comfortably I'm gonna laugh in your face.

QuoteNo, I complain when games insist on giving Conan a better armor class instead of more hit points.

But Conan actually wears armor in the books, so your point is moot anyway.

Fair enough, though armor class/hit points divide in D&D is so amorphous it seems odd to be so specific about it.

QuoteAll of the pictures you posted in the thread turn me off.

Yay, diversity.

It's cool, we like different things. I suggest you stay away from Iron Kingdoms and Anima: Beyond Fantasy then. Mind posting something from your favorites, like that Flashing Blades thing?

Quote from: Kaz;620843I did my senior thesis in ethics on comics books. And during my presentation I showed the class a picture by Adi Granov of She-Hulk and Spider-man. I asked the class to point out unrealistic things about the picture. Of course everyone talked about She-Hulk, but no one mentioned Spider-man's sculpted body, washboard abs, amazing shoulders, perfect pecs, etc, etc.

Not to mention that you can see all of that THROUGH the costume.

JG

Quote from: flyerfan1991;620854Yep.  Good one.

I also like the idea of shaving the head, putting a tattoo on it, and letting the hair grow back.  Kind of a rite of passage for a warrior.

Simply going bald is a perfectly cool and practical style female warriors don't get to use often enough in art.  That's part of why I like Pathfinder's Shoanti culture do much.

Quote from: vytzka;620901It's not a cop out. It's rejecting criticism that is inappropriate for the context.



This is Cloud Strife with the Fusion Sword(s). If you try to tell me that sword is unrealistic and too heavy to use comfortably I'm gonna laugh in your face.

How about if I point out that the sword looks like it has a fair thinckness to it so it probably weighs c 30-35 Kilos and the tang and handle are so short and narrow that even were it weildable if it were to actually hit something the force of pressure on the point where the tang enters the blade would be so great as to either break the wrist of the weilder or it they were magically stong enough result in the sword bending or shattering at at point.....
the hilt is also too narrow to actually hold comfortably.

Declaring one's fondness for oversized anime swords, is pretty much establishing that you don't care much for verisimilitude or consistency, let alone historicity.

Mind you, I think this sort of image has its place (I've played Exalted characters with daiklaives, and D&D 4e characters wielding fullblades), but I firmly prefer traditional RPGs (such as TSR-era D&D or Runequest) to exhibit in their art the same sort of vaguely historical (or, more often, literary) consistency that you get from the ruleset. Which is why I expect knights with broadswords and barbarians with bearded axes and legionnaires with spears, but Cloud Strife and his giant fucking sword would come across as rather jarring if I were to find it illustrating an OSR ruleset. But in Exalted? He's right at home.

Quote from: jibbajibba;620932How about if I point out that the sword looks like it has a fair thinckness to it so it probably weighs c 30-35 Kilos and the tang and handle are so short and narrow that even were it weildable if it were to actually hit something the force of pressure on the point where the tang enters the blade would be so great as to either break the wrist of the weilder or it they were magically stong enough result in the sword bending or shattering at at point.....
the hilt is also too narrow to actually hold comfortably.

That's cute.


But I just realised that the difference perhaps lies in the way we approach such material from opposite directions.

You look at that sword and go OMG it's not realistic (you're right, it's not realistic). I look at that sword and go okay yeah it's crazy big but he swings it around with no apparent difficulty. Either he's REALLY strong, the sword is made of some ultralight material or there's some other explanation. Hey, remember how people thought Western longswords weighted 20 kilograms or whatever and it didn't cause them any significant failure of suspension of disbelief? Maybe it's the reverse here.

Likewise, people see a woman fighter wearing boobplate and leg armor with thighs explosed and go all omg that is terrible, she's going to die. I see that and my mind goes "well she's not dead yet so either it's not that inconvenient or she's just so good at fighting that it doesn't inconvenience her at all".


Food for thought.

Quote from: The Butcher;620934Declaring one's fondness for oversized anime swords, is effectively the same as thumbing one's nose towards ideas of verisimilitude or consistency.

Mind you, I think this sort of image has its place (I've played Exalted characters with daiklaives, and D&D 4e characters wielding fullblades), but I firmly prefer traditional RPGs (such as TSR-era D&D or Runequest) to exhibit in their art the same sort of consistency that you get from the ruleset.

I didn't say I would like my character to have a sword like that in any game. I play people with more regular sized swords in D&D and related stuff, and in Anima if you want to have a huge sword like that you can but you need a lot of strength to wave it around. It was an illustration for a genre where standard pseudo-historical assumptions about nature of combat gear have no place.

And I don't think it's one or the other, either Berserkxalted anime swords bonanza or historical full plate or go home. I think there are a lot of shades of gray in the middle and that's where most cool but impractical armor and weapons fit in.

Have you seen this?

QuoteScience fiction and fantasy novels routinely portray scantily clad woman on their covers - a device that draws the heterosexual male eye but may turn away women readers. Lynsea Garrison finds one fantasy author aiming to zap gender stereotypes.

Article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21033708

AND

this: http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/ which recreates those pictures of revealing women in comic art and replaces them with Hawkeye to see if it still works. They largely don't.