Quote from: Cipher on January 20, 2024, 11:45:55 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 20, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Greetings!

In my world of Thandor, there is a Dark Mutation that transforms the host humanoid into a gigantic, no-neck, undulating behemoth woman.

There are also cults composed entirely of such Behemoth-women members. Some of these Behemoth cults also create and organize civic action groups, where groups of Behemoth women gather together in urban streets to promote protests and riots, as they shriek at, and lecture nearby citizens.

There are also dark cults of Behemoth-women that operate depraved sex rings and clubs, where they dominate and play with hordes of weak male simps. Many of these terrible examples of males also actually *pay* the Behemoth-women to dominate them and engage with them in sexual parties.

Such fun opportunities! I use them periodically as villains, and as encounters that remind the players of how gross, depraved, and disgusting civilized society can be.

Such encounters with Behemoth women always inspire outbursts of humour in my groups. The women are especially savage!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What is the root cause of this mutation?

Can any female character be stroke with it? Or is this something like the "flaking rot" that comes from a ghoul or such foul undead creature?

A degree from a liberal arts college.

Quote from: Cipher on January 20, 2024, 11:45:55 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 20, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Greetings!

In my world of Thandor, there is a Dark Mutation that transforms the host humanoid into a gigantic, no-neck, undulating behemoth woman.

There are also cults composed entirely of such Behemoth-women members. Some of these Behemoth cults also create and organize civic action groups, where groups of Behemoth women gather together in urban streets to promote protests and riots, as they shriek at, and lecture nearby citizens.

There are also dark cults of Behemoth-women that operate depraved sex rings and clubs, where they dominate and play with hordes of weak male simps. Many of these terrible examples of males also actually *pay* the Behemoth-women to dominate them and engage with them in sexual parties.

Such fun opportunities! I use them periodically as villains, and as encounters that remind the players of how gross, depraved, and disgusting civilized society can be.

Such encounters with Behemoth women always inspire outbursts of humour in my groups. The women are especially savage!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What is the root cause of this mutation?

Can any female character be stroke with it? Or is this something like the "flaking rot" that comes from a ghoul or such foul undead creature?

Greetings!

Well, the root-cause of the Dark Mutation comes from Chaos Energy, or Chaos Taint, which comes from the dark, monstrous realms of Nav, and the Dark Gods. Anytime a person rejects righteousness and the natural order, thereby embracing depravity, they can then be afflicted by such Dark Mutations. Dark Mutations can burst forth from within, based upon the individual's depravity and rebellion. Other avenues, as one might imagine, are embracing the worship of Dark and evil gods. Yet another is being exposed to various kinds of Chaos Diseases. Likewise, using various Dark spells, evil magic items, and participating in dark, evil rituals.

So, there are many avenues from which a person may gain such Dark Mutations.

Female humanoids, of course, they are otherwise mortal and can be afflicted with Dark Mutations, in the same manner that any male humanoid can be.

There is also an Undead Variant of the Behemoth Queen mutation. Thus, there are huge, towering Zombie and Ghoul women, ponderously moving along, layers of fetid blubber hanging from them. Clouds of stench hovering around them at all times. Such women also attract clouds of flies that hover and crawl about them, feasting on the sweat, the postules of body fluid and lesions seeping malevolent pus.

With diseases, of course, such creatures are frequently riddled with pestilence. Being touched by their fetid juices can of course be contagious in spreading their diseases. There are depraved cults full of men and women alike, but mostly men--that seek out such Behemoth Ghoul Queens, and make them a twisted focus of worship, sensuality, and servitude. Such pathetic creatures eagerly lay with the Behemoth Ghouls, wallowing in their streams of filth, intentionally hoping to become infected by their diseases, so that they can enter the glories of the new age to come.

The "Ick" factor and shrieking humour practically writes itself whenever my parties encounter these kinds of monstrous women. The players, themselves, will provide you with an endless barrage of humour and dark commentary!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 21, 2024, 12:14:45 AM

Quote from: Cipher on January 20, 2024, 11:45:55 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 20, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Greetings!

In my world of Thandor, there is a Dark Mutation that transforms the host humanoid into a gigantic, no-neck, undulating behemoth woman.

There are also cults composed entirely of such Behemoth-women members. Some of these Behemoth cults also create and organize civic action groups, where groups of Behemoth women gather together in urban streets to promote protests and riots, as they shriek at, and lecture nearby citizens.

There are also dark cults of Behemoth-women that operate depraved sex rings and clubs, where they dominate and play with hordes of weak male simps. Many of these terrible examples of males also actually *pay* the Behemoth-women to dominate them and engage with them in sexual parties.

Such fun opportunities! I use them periodically as villains, and as encounters that remind the players of how gross, depraved, and disgusting civilized society can be.

Such encounters with Behemoth women always inspire outbursts of humour in my groups. The women are especially savage!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What is the root cause of this mutation?

Can any female character be stroke with it? Or is this something like the "flaking rot" that comes from a ghoul or such foul undead creature?

A degree from a liberal arts college.

Greetings!

*HOWLING LAUGHTER*!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on January 21, 2024, 12:21:39 AM

Quote from: Cipher on January 20, 2024, 11:45:55 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 20, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Greetings!

In my world of Thandor, there is a Dark Mutation that transforms the host humanoid into a gigantic, no-neck, undulating behemoth woman.

There are also cults composed entirely of such Behemoth-women members. Some of these Behemoth cults also create and organize civic action groups, where groups of Behemoth women gather together in urban streets to promote protests and riots, as they shriek at, and lecture nearby citizens.

There are also dark cults of Behemoth-women that operate depraved sex rings and clubs, where they dominate and play with hordes of weak male simps. Many of these terrible examples of males also actually *pay* the Behemoth-women to dominate them and engage with them in sexual parties.

Such fun opportunities! I use them periodically as villains, and as encounters that remind the players of how gross, depraved, and disgusting civilized society can be.

Such encounters with Behemoth women always inspire outbursts of humour in my groups. The women are especially savage!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What is the root cause of this mutation?

Can any female character be stroke with it? Or is this something like the "flaking rot" that comes from a ghoul or such foul undead creature?

Greetings!

Well, the root-cause of the Dark Mutation comes from Chaos Energy, or Chaos Taint, which comes from the dark, monstrous realms of Nav, and the Dark Gods. Anytime a person rejects righteousness and the natural order, thereby embracing depravity, they can then be afflicted by such Dark Mutations. Dark Mutations can burst forth from within, based upon the individual's depravity and rebellion. Other avenues, as one might imagine, are embracing the worship of Dark and evil gods. Yet another is being exposed to various kinds of Chaos Diseases. Likewise, using various Dark spells, evil magic items, and participating in dark, evil rituals.

So, there are many avenues from which a person may gain such Dark Mutations.

Female humanoids, of course, they are otherwise mortal and can be afflicted with Dark Mutations, in the same manner that any male humanoid can be.

There is also an Undead Variant of the Behemoth Queen mutation. Thus, there are huge, towering Zombie and Ghoul women, ponderously moving along, layers of fetid blubber hanging from them. Clouds of stench hovering around them at all times. Such women also attract clouds of flies that hover and crawl about them, feasting on the sweat, the postules of body fluid and lesions seeping malevolent pus.

With diseases, of course, such creatures are frequently riddled with pestilence. Being touched by their fetid juices can of course be contagious in spreading their diseases. There are depraved cults full of men and women alike, but mostly men--that seek out such Behemoth Ghoul Queens, and make them a twisted focus of worship, sensuality, and servitude. Such pathetic creatures eagerly lay with the Behemoth Ghouls, wallowing in their streams of filth, intentionally hoping to become infected by their diseases, so that they can enter the glories of the new age to come.

The "Ick" factor and shrieking humour practically writes itself whenever my parties encounter these kinds of monstrous women. The players, themselves, will provide you with an endless barrage of humour and dark commentary!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I see. Very interesting. Did you draw inspiration from Warhammer fantasy Chaos corruption for this? Not saying it in a negative manner, there's nothing new under the sun.

Also, I assume this can have mechanical representation in gameplay. Say, a player character can be afflicted by these?

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 20, 2024, 06:52:48 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 20, 2024, 06:38:47 PM
In my experience, female players use images of attractive women for their characters even if that doesn't match their stats.  Their characters are always good looking even if they dump charisma.   

A woman doesn't have to be unattractive, to have low Charisma.  Just add a scornful bitchy scowl, to the face of any woman.  Instantly, Low Charisma.

They aren't that either.

Quote from: zircher on January 20, 2024, 08:33:50 PM

Quote from: jhkim on January 20, 2024, 02:05:40 AM
I liked it when the standard for characters looked like this:



These characters don't look like beasts. They look plain, which is fine. I'm not opposed to characters looking like Fabio or Hemsworth, but I don't think it needs to be the majority of all characters.

Maybe my fictional societies are malnourished.  Fat only happens when you're living high off the hog and not burning those calories.  So, a little meat on their bones is fine and even desirable.  Gluttony on the other hand is seen as what it is whether you are low or high class. Scars and pock marks are rare when healing magic exists.  On the other hand, body builders and super models are the greyhounds of society, they are high maintenance forms that are rare (and perhaps even supernatural.)

I'm not sure what the general point is you're driving at here. But I think I agree in that I don't prefer the constant standard should be adventurers looking like body builders and super models posing for the camera.

Obviously, it's a matter of taste, but I happen to like the tone original Player's Handbook by Trampier as well as the Erol Otus covers for the Basic Set. From this thread, though, it sounds like many posters don't like this - that they want PCs to be attractive and highlighted, as became more common in 2E.

Quote from: Cipher on January 21, 2024, 01:39:57 AM

Quote from: SHARK on January 21, 2024, 12:21:39 AM

Quote from: Cipher on January 20, 2024, 11:45:55 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 20, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Greetings!

In my world of Thandor, there is a Dark Mutation that transforms the host humanoid into a gigantic, no-neck, undulating behemoth woman.

There are also cults composed entirely of such Behemoth-women members. Some of these Behemoth cults also create and organize civic action groups, where groups of Behemoth women gather together in urban streets to promote protests and riots, as they shriek at, and lecture nearby citizens.

There are also dark cults of Behemoth-women that operate depraved sex rings and clubs, where they dominate and play with hordes of weak male simps. Many of these terrible examples of males also actually *pay* the Behemoth-women to dominate them and engage with them in sexual parties.

Such fun opportunities! I use them periodically as villains, and as encounters that remind the players of how gross, depraved, and disgusting civilized society can be.

Such encounters with Behemoth women always inspire outbursts of humour in my groups. The women are especially savage!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What is the root cause of this mutation?

Can any female character be stroke with it? Or is this something like the "flaking rot" that comes from a ghoul or such foul undead creature?

Greetings!

Well, the root-cause of the Dark Mutation comes from Chaos Energy, or Chaos Taint, which comes from the dark, monstrous realms of Nav, and the Dark Gods. Anytime a person rejects righteousness and the natural order, thereby embracing depravity, they can then be afflicted by such Dark Mutations. Dark Mutations can burst forth from within, based upon the individual's depravity and rebellion. Other avenues, as one might imagine, are embracing the worship of Dark and evil gods. Yet another is being exposed to various kinds of Chaos Diseases. Likewise, using various Dark spells, evil magic items, and participating in dark, evil rituals.

So, there are many avenues from which a person may gain such Dark Mutations.

Female humanoids, of course, they are otherwise mortal and can be afflicted with Dark Mutations, in the same manner that any male humanoid can be.

There is also an Undead Variant of the Behemoth Queen mutation. Thus, there are huge, towering Zombie and Ghoul women, ponderously moving along, layers of fetid blubber hanging from them. Clouds of stench hovering around them at all times. Such women also attract clouds of flies that hover and crawl about them, feasting on the sweat, the postules of body fluid and lesions seeping malevolent pus.

With diseases, of course, such creatures are frequently riddled with pestilence. Being touched by their fetid juices can of course be contagious in spreading their diseases. There are depraved cults full of men and women alike, but mostly men--that seek out such Behemoth Ghoul Queens, and make them a twisted focus of worship, sensuality, and servitude. Such pathetic creatures eagerly lay with the Behemoth Ghouls, wallowing in their streams of filth, intentionally hoping to become infected by their diseases, so that they can enter the glories of the new age to come.

The "Ick" factor and shrieking humour practically writes itself whenever my parties encounter these kinds of monstrous women. The players, themselves, will provide you with an endless barrage of humour and dark commentary!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I see. Very interesting. Did you draw inspiration from Warhammer fantasy Chaos corruption for this? Not saying it in a negative manner, there's nothing new under the sun.

Also, I assume this can have mechanical representation in gameplay. Say, a player character can be afflicted by these?

Greetings!

Oh, yes. Totally inspired from Warhammer's Chaos Corruption!

And, yes indeed there is mechanical representation in the game. I have an entire Dark Mutations Table that I can either choose from, or make random dice rolls from. Each Dark Mutation having a thorough rules and mechanics profile.

Player Characters can, and have been afflicted with such Dark Mutations. That always results in lots of drama. *Laughing* I have game mechanics detailed where Players, for example, have some chance of being healed from such Dark Mutations, and restored to their normal selves. However, the process typically involves dangerous quests, sacrifice, and much dedication and faith for such redemption and cleansing to be achieved.

Most people or creatures that are afflicted with Dark Mutations are, well, just effed. Most of the time, they embrace wickedness and evil, spurred on by growing madness and depravity. As doomed Slaves to Darkness, they join the ranks of The Lost and the Damned

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jhkim on January 21, 2024, 07:57:09 AM
I'm not sure what the general point is you're driving at here. But I think I agree in that I don't prefer the constant standard should be adventurers looking like body builders and super models posing for the camera.

Obviously, it's a matter of taste, but I happen to like the tone original Player's Handbook by Trampier as well as the Erol Otus covers for the Basic Set. From this thread, though, it sounds like many posters don't like this - that they want PCs to be attractive and highlighted, as became more common in 2E.

I remember when I was in the British Territorial Army Reserve, I noticed that pretty well all the younger soldiers were well above average attractiveness, both sexes - though I paid more attention to the girls. I remember one somewhat overweight 'curvy' female soldier at a snooker game; no supermodel, but because she was fit, she was definitely still sexy, and very attractive bending over that snooker table. 

I think adventurers are a lot like soldiers, the older veteran ones may look beaten up like the 1e PHB cover characters, but young ones will generally be good looking, simply through being in near peak physical shape.

Quote from: S'mon on January 21, 2024, 05:26:20 PM

Quote from: jhkim on January 21, 2024, 07:57:09 AM
I'm not sure what the general point is you're driving at here. But I think I agree in that I don't prefer the constant standard should be adventurers looking like body builders and super models posing for the camera.

Obviously, it's a matter of taste, but I happen to like the tone original Player's Handbook by Trampier as well as the Erol Otus covers for the Basic Set. From this thread, though, it sounds like many posters don't like this - that they want PCs to be attractive and highlighted, as became more common in 2E.

I remember when I was in the British Territorial Army Reserve, I noticed that pretty well all the younger soldiers were well above average attractiveness, both sexes - though I paid more attention to the girls. I remember one somewhat overweight 'curvy' female soldier at a snooker game; no supermodel, but because she was fit, she was definitely still sexy, and very attractive bending over that snooker table. 

I think adventurers are a lot like soldiers, the older veteran ones may look beaten up like the 1e PHB cover characters, but young ones will generally be good looking, simply through being in near peak physical shape.

Sure. Being physically fit with no major health issues will skew the demographic more attractive.

What did you think of the 1E PHB cover, though, with this in mind? Specifically, did you have a problem with it because you thought that the adventurers should look more attractive?

There's a huge difference between art where the subjects look like people who are physically attractive, and art where the subjects look like models just out of hair and makeup posing for the camera.

---

EDITED TO ADD: To clarify, I have no problem with Boris Vallejo art and posed models in general - in places where it fits. For example, I am a fan of Macho Women With Guns, where that is largely the premise of the game. Or a glam Rocker in Cyberpunk. But a lot of the 2E D&D art looked like posed models (both male and female) standing around looking at the camera, rather than conveying action in a vivid dungeon.

When I was a virginal pre-teen boy early 80s, sure, I obsessed over the Succubus and Sylph in the Monster Manual - and the slave girls in the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide. But as an adult, I have plenty of outlets for seeing models in skimpy outfits. Heck, I have a hard time avoiding them in Internet advertising.

Quote from: jhkim on January 21, 2024, 09:06:07 PM
There's a huge difference between art where the subjects look like people who are physically attractive, and art where the subjects look like models just out of hair and makeup posing for the camera.

Out of curiosity, into which of those two categories would you sort these two KMart-brand Eowyns? (from Against the Darkmaster):


And just for laughs, what about this absolute gigachad?

Quote from: jhkim on January 20, 2024, 02:05:40 AM

Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2024, 06:53:20 PM
As for art, well, yeah, I always like yummy looking women. The men need to look like beasts as well. That should be the norm, and the constant standard.

Having said that, on occasion, a very different character is fine, and appropriate. Based on subject matter, etc.

I liked it when the standard for characters looked like this:



These characters don't look like beasts. They look plain, which is fine. I'm not opposed to characters looking like Fabio or Hemsworth, but I don't think it needs to be the majority of all characters.

I like that cover, too.  It gets the probable sex of the adventurers correct, along with the aesthetic.  I'm kind of surprised you'd pick an example with no women as your example in a thread about ugly women in RPGs, but it's nice to see you coming around...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 21, 2024, 11:30:37 PMI'm kind of surprised you'd pick an example with no women as your example in a thread about ugly women in RPGs....

Goes to the greater logic being examined. Part of the reason unattractive and un-athletic female characters are rare is the general player tendency to avoid such characters whatever their sex. However, the other extreme of unrealistically gorgeous characters (especially if every character in a particular product is so depicted) is likewise worth criticizing, from a verisimilitude/plausibility standpoint.

As a result, if the optimum is to go back to the original "old school" art style, some reminder examples of just what that used to be -- decent but unspectacular looks for adventurers, mostly male with the occasional (and most likely somewhat better looking) female adventurer among them -- would not be out of place.

Greetings!

Yeah, 2-Time World Kickboxing Champion, Belorussian Katya Kavaleva puts all the fat, bloated, blue-haired landwhales to shame. Katya is 6'5" and weighs 200-lbs. Omagine wrestling with her!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

@JhKim yes I like the grizzled 1e PHB adventurers a lot. But I like Morgan Ironwolf and Aleena too. I agree re Vallejo art.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on January 22, 2024, 12:58:54 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 21, 2024, 11:30:37 PMI'm kind of surprised you'd pick an example with no women as your example in a thread about ugly women in RPGs....

Goes to the greater logic being examined. Part of the reason unattractive and un-athletic female characters are rare is the general player tendency to avoid such characters whatever their sex. However, the other extreme of unrealistically gorgeous characters (especially if every character in a particular product is so depicted) is likewise worth criticizing, from a verisimilitude/plausibility standpoint.

Yup. And a lot of people are posting pictures of non-ugly, non-fat women -- which is also outside the strict topic. SHARK and Opaopajr both explicitly said that the same standard should apply for men and women - the men should be "beefcake" or "beasts".

I think that for both men and women, it's fine to have attractive PC illustrations, and it's also fine to have some unattractive PC illustrations - for both men and women.

Quote from: S'mon on January 22, 2024, 04:57:22 AM
@JhKim yes I like the grizzled 1e PHB adventurers a lot. But I like Morgan Ironwolf and Aleena too. I agree re Vallejo art.

As I said, I don't have a problem with attractive PCs - just that it shouldn't be the constant standard. I also like Dee's cover for Module A1 which is on topic for the thread.



I don't think Elwita on the right is ugly (it's hard to tell), but she's certainly shown in action rather than posing.