Quote from: BadApple on December 24, 2023, 05:17:28 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on December 23, 2023, 09:46:27 PM
Why is everyone harshing Pawsplay? Dude's been around TTRPG circles for a long time. Decades I think?

Because the dude has posted in some thirty different threads with over a hundred combined posts in just a few days and the vast majority of them were deliberate attempts to derail the conversation or to instigate hostilities with another poster.  I don't care if Pawsplay taught Gary Gygax how to play, hostile is hostile.

I just say what I think. It's not my fault this gathers hostile reactions from other people. If I say something like, "I'm a trans POC gamer," just one, off-handed reference to something that is in fact true, and people go on for pages and pages, I don't think I'm the one with the problem with instigating. The person responding chose to make it an agenda issue.

I've been on this forum over a decade. Apparently some people think they are going to run me off because I don't have the correct orthodoxy. Absolutely ironic, given what people have to say about rigid ideologies. You can look at my posting history, I participate in a variety of topics, truly not hostile at all. I'm just not intimidated by the hostility of others.

I've been topical in this discussion, unlike many people. The topics is, Are TTRPG communities hopelessly woke? The answer is no. They are quite diverse in viewpoints, and generally reflect the conservative and reactionary tendencies of mainstream culture. I've tried to draw a line from A to B to C, and people just aren't willing to see it. Mostly what I get is people discounted by qualifications to participate in the discussion at all. Accusations of being an ideologue, or brainwashed, or belonging to an inferior and less important race or culture.

I wouldn't even call this place an echo chamber. It's everyone from "no, really, I'm a cool progressive due, I just tolerate crappy behavior" to full on white supremacists claiming some "races" are genetically inferior and less intelligent. But one common theme is that a lot of people come here to retreat from reality. White males are not oppressed, though they are, mathematically, a minority. Game companies are not aggressively agenda driven. They are, firstly, driven by creative people who make games, and secondly, by money, in various proportions. The people of gender, sexuality, and ethnic minorities you see in various positions are just reflections of the people who play the games. Calls for people of a specific demographics are just an attempt to correct historic under-representation. And the Pundit may not approve of every garbage thing said on this site, but he certainly tolerates things that make it easier to support his own personal worldview.

So bitch says this:

Quote from: pawsplay on December 29, 2023, 06:41:28 PM
I just say what I think. It's not my fault this gathers hostile reactions from other people. If I say something like, "I'm a trans POC gamer," just one, off-handed reference to something that is in fact true, and people go on for pages and pages, I don't think I'm the one with the problem with instigating.

Then follows it up with this:

Quote from: pawsplay on December 29, 2023, 06:41:28 PM
I wouldn't even call this place an echo chamber. It's everyone from "no, really, I'm a cool progressive due, I just tolerate crappy behavior" to full on white supremacists claiming some "races" are genetically inferior and less intelligent. But one common theme is that a lot of people come here to retreat from reality. White males are not oppressed, though they are, mathematically, a minority. Game companies are not aggressively agenda driven. They are, firstly, driven by creative people who make games, and secondly, by money, in various proportions. The people of gender, sexuality, and ethnic minorities you see in various positions are just reflections of the people who play the games. Calls for people of a specific demographics are just an attempt to correct historic under-representation. And the Pundit may not approve of every garbage thing said on this site, but he certainly tolerates things that make it easier to support his own personal worldview.

But it's not instigating.  LOL!

I'd call you mentally ill, but I don't need to.  You fessed up in the first paragraph...

I'm sure the Pundit will be okay without your valiant defense. But it's sweet of you to think of him.

The position points that don't relate to the site and its members seem moreso  stances than instigations to me. And most of the stuff there more generally does indeed relate either directly or tangentially to some degree to this thread's topic. I'll even acknowledge pawsplay may have originally not meant to offend, though the unreflective white male part in conjunction with identity statement had originally made me feel like a point was being made there about identity tiering or something, even if that probably wasn't the intent.

Anyway, I do think at this point there are going to be instigations thrown in this conversation. I don't have great hopes, but we should probably just try to all focus on the content of the original post and the general thread core, even if we do that I guess?

Most of my arguments that things are woke in the corporate world and for forums and associated community impactors I've already posted. Check especially the corporate thread, I guess, for those interested. (Though that one went a bit off the rails which was partly my own fault.)

TLDR: The creator bans on forums and reddit, YouTube policies and the policies of other sites in restricting speech via corporate sway. Hiring practices which actually go to the point of using race as a disqualifying factor in authorial hiring. Corporate censorship of prior works, including owned works, especially where without consumer consent. Actual rules in the game about who can play, what opinions can be had, and by who (with respect to identity). ESG laws making it the only alternative to actual profit in investing. Subsequent results within the corporate sphere, and blah. It all impacts the community and the hobby more broadly.

Quote from: pawsplay on December 29, 2023, 06:41:28 PM

I've been topical in this discussion, unlike many people. The topics is, Are TTRPG communities hopelessly woke? The answer is no. They are quite diverse in viewpoints,

Oh horseshit.  At TBP, there is one and only once acceptable viewpoint.  For several issues, it's not even an unwritten rule.  It's written directly into the forum rules.  You can discuss Trump but you can't support him.  You can discuss police shooting incidents but you can't support the police.  You can talk about sexism or racism in games but you can't contradict or even be skeptical of claims of sexism or racism.  It's hardly the only forum where you better have the correct, Progressive viewpoint or keep quiet.  Diverse viewpoints?  Who are you trying to lie to here: us or yourself?

Actually, now that I think of it, are there any rpg forums other than this one that allow minimally moderated political conversation within the topic of TTRPGs? I legit am drawing blanks here. Most seem either like big purple in censorship trends or like rpg pub and the like in not allowing that kind of discussion. Scary if I'm getting this right and we only have 10,000 or so members...

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 29, 2023, 07:58:36 PM
Actually, now that I think of it, are there any rpg forums other than this one that allow minimally moderated political conversation within the topic of TTRPGs? I legit am drawing blanks here. Most seem either like big purple in censorship trends or like rpg pub and the like in not allowing that kind of discussion. Scary if I'm getting this right and we only have 10,000 or so members...

If one exists, I don't know about it.  Either political discussion isn't allowed at all or there's one acceptable viewpoint which is pretty much always the current, standard issue Progressive NPC viewpoint.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 29, 2023, 08:03:42 PM

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 29, 2023, 07:58:36 PM
Actually, now that I think of it, are there any rpg forums other than this one that allow minimally moderated political conversation within the topic of TTRPGs? I legit am drawing blanks here. Most seem either like big purple in censorship trends or like rpg pub and the like in not allowing that kind of discussion. Scary if I'm getting this right and we only have 10,000 or so members...

If one exists, I don't know about it.  Either political discussion isn't allowed at all or there's one acceptable viewpoint which is pretty much always the current, standard issue Progressive NPC viewpoint.

Nah, they are the same thing.  The "no politics allowed" forums always degenerate into mods who post (or allow) leftists politics because "It's not politics; it's just the facts/politeness/reality."  Always.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 29, 2023, 08:12:46 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 29, 2023, 08:03:42 PM

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 29, 2023, 07:58:36 PM
Actually, now that I think of it, are there any rpg forums other than this one that allow minimally moderated political conversation within the topic of TTRPGs? I legit am drawing blanks here. Most seem either like big purple in censorship trends or like rpg pub and the like in not allowing that kind of discussion. Scary if I'm getting this right and we only have 10,000 or so members...

If one exists, I don't know about it.  Either political discussion isn't allowed at all or there's one acceptable viewpoint which is pretty much always the current, standard issue Progressive NPC viewpoint.

Nah, they are the same thing.  The "no politics allowed" forums always degenerate into mods who post (or allow) leftists politics because "It's not politics; it's just the facts/politeness/reality."  Always.

I bailed on a gaming club's Facebook group because it had a no politics rule, and when I complained a poster was repeatedly posting pro-BLM posts, the Moderator told me "that's not politics, that's just basic morality". I quit then and there.

Quote from: pawsplay on December 29, 2023, 06:41:28 PMI just say what I think. It's not my fault this gathers hostile reactions from other people. If I say something like, "I'm a trans POC gamer," just one, off-handed reference to something that is in fact true, and people go on for pages and pages, I don't think I'm the one with the problem with instigating. The person responding chose to make it an agenda issue.

Have you considered transitioning to a person that argues in good faith?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 29, 2023, 07:05:11 PM
So bitch says this:

Quote from: pawsplay on December 29, 2023, 06:41:28 PM
I just say what I think. It's not my fault this gathers hostile reactions from other people. If I say something like, "I'm a trans POC gamer," just one, off-handed reference to something that is in fact true, and people go on for pages and pages, I don't think I'm the one with the problem with instigating.

Then follows it up with this:

Quote from: pawsplay on December 29, 2023, 06:41:28 PM
I wouldn't even call this place an echo chamber. It's everyone from "no, really, I'm a cool progressive due, I just tolerate crappy behavior" to full on white supremacists claiming some "races" are genetically inferior and less intelligent. But one common theme is that a lot of people come here to retreat from reality. White males are not oppressed, though they are, mathematically, a minority. Game companies are not aggressively agenda driven. They are, firstly, driven by creative people who make games, and secondly, by money, in various proportions. The people of gender, sexuality, and ethnic minorities you see in various positions are just reflections of the people who play the games. Calls for people of a specific demographics are just an attempt to correct historic under-representation. And the Pundit may not approve of every garbage thing said on this site, but he certainly tolerates things that make it easier to support his own personal worldview.

But it's not instigating.  LOL!

I'd call you mentally ill, but I don't need to.  You fessed up in the first paragraph...

The bitch already derailed and got one thread locked, stop playing into his hands.

I'm not even in the discussion on the last few pages of the locked topic, don't try to pin that one on me. Try responding to the thread topic once in a while, see if that works out better for y'all.

It seems this thread has been somewhat hijacked in no small part to Pawplay. which I had directed a couple questions at then was flatly ignored and then proceeded to focus on the drivel and political banter as opposed to  reasonable questions. he baited several people and said people took it hook, line, and sinker.

Captain Pazuzu seems to have the right idea.