Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2023, 12:09:58 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 27, 2023, 09:22:31 AM
I grew up in a household that was very right-wing. My grandmother was a member of the John Birch Society, and about as racist as one could get. It was really soul-crushing to be in that environment and to be subject to her continual abuse for having a different opinion.

Sexuality I was always taught should be kept in the bedroom. Private. It makes me uncomfortable to have it displayed in public. This is not people in sexy clothing. But the actual sex acts. I was taught they were none of my business. And frankly, I don't want them to be. And honestly, porn movies have always made me uncomfortable.

I don't play games to be made uncomfortable. I don't run games to be made uncomfortable. My solution to sex acts in a game is always to fade to black. Out of sight, out of mind.

I'm a firm believer in consent but so many people forget that observers are participants too.  There are things that make me uncomfortable that I can deal with under the right conditions and some that I don't want anything to do with at all.  None of them are things I think should be open to the general public. 

I use the MPAA ratings standards for how I run games.  I don't do anything more than PG in a public setting and nothing more than PG-13 (with the exception of swear words, I'm a sailor by profession) in home games.

If someone wanted to run a spicy rated-R game, I'm not likely to join but I'm not judging them for doing that.  I would only ask that they find a venue that keeps it away from kids.

Quote from: squirewaldo on December 27, 2023, 11:13:10 AM
It is nice to see a contentious issues discussed like adults. We don't have to agree with each other about everything, we just need to respect boundaries. Not so common with people prone to throw accusations and insults around like old cigarette butts. I think Internet also makes courtesy more difficult for everyone.

Honestly, rule zero for the internet should be "Your communication skills suck so speak and read carefully.  Even you, Mr. English major."

I know I'm not always the best at understanding others or conveying my own thoughts.

This here is why I would never buy ANYTHING from Venger OR Grim Jim, I would need to read the debauchery in order to be able to run a PG/PG13 game using their stuff.

On the other hand adding the lewds (if that's your thing) is pretty simple.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 27, 2023, 07:11:56 AM
Being trans isn't something I would wish on anybody. It's too painful, has too much risk of suicide. It's not a choice I made for myself. It was a realization of a condition that had been an active issue since childhood. It wasn't a phase to get over. It's not something I could just dismiss. It needs proper treatment. And for me, proper treatment is the transition process. No matter how difficult that is.

There is no such thing as "trans" or "transitioning". Males do not become females, nor more than they can become elves, dwarves or magical hamsters. Medical malpractice can only turn a male or female into a butchered and deformed version of who they were.

Homosexuality and this "trans-mania" is mental illness being promoted by the very worst of society for the very worst of reasons.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 27, 2023, 07:11:56 AM
My end goal is to be comfortable in my own body. Something I am not now.

Chopping up yourself won't solve this.

Get real help before the damage can't be reversed.

Quote from: Spinachcat on December 27, 2023, 01:48:56 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 27, 2023, 07:11:56 AM
Being trans isn't something I would wish on anybody. It's too painful, has too much risk of suicide. It's not a choice I made for myself. It was a realization of a condition that had been an active issue since childhood. It wasn't a phase to get over. It's not something I could just dismiss. It needs proper treatment. And for me, proper treatment is the transition process. No matter how difficult that is.

There is no such thing as "trans" or "transitioning". Males do not become females, nor more than they can become elves, dwarves or magical hamsters. Medical malpractice can only turn a male or female into a butchered and deformed version of who they were.

Homosexuality and this "trans-mania" is mental illness being promoted by the very worst of society for the very worst of reasons.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 27, 2023, 07:11:56 AM
My end goal is to be comfortable in my own body. Something I am not now.

Chopping up yourself won't solve this.

Get real help before the damage can't be reversed.

I would suggest that this sub-thread should be taken up on political forum as you've gone beyond pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPG) Discussion.

Quote from: Valatar on December 27, 2023, 12:21:41 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 27, 2023, 03:25:05 AM
Different tastes for different people, but I've generally found a bit of sexuality or romance adds to the verisimilitude of the setting. Even if not the PCs, NPCs will have marriages and families and so forth.

If you cannot see a distinction between "this is NPC A, who is married to NPC B" and "this is NPC A, here is her two-paragraph monologue about how she cut off her boobs that she is telling the party, who she just met", then I don't much know what to tell you. There's a difference between sex existing in the world and the author's cause du jour being pushed front and center in an encounter.

Quote from: Valatar on December 27, 2023, 12:21:41 PM
And before you say, "Well I've never seen...", my example up there is from an actual Pathfinder adventure where the party encounters a dwarf with chest surgery scars who makes reference to them in conversation with the party. Never mind that: A: Getting your chest carved up in a setting with no established history of surgical practice and that has magical polymorphing that is safe and inexpensive is insane, and B: Going around pointing out the proof that you've had surgery to people undermines the goal of passing as the sex you had that surgery to pass as.

You're bringing in an example that was never mentioned before, and that I've never read. Not having read it, I don't have an opinion on it yet. What's the module and where does the character appear?

For the general points... In my D&D campaigns, it has been normal for there to be scars (magical healing wasn't assumed to eliminate scars), and being permanently polymorphed to a new body isn't commonly available - and certainly not cheap. I've only briefly played Pathfinder, though, and I'm not sure what the setting was.

Transgender characters have been rare in my fantasy campaigns, but when they appear, they typically won't be able to fully pass because bodily transformation isn't easily accessible. For example, I've just been rolling up some characters for Arrows of Indra as I'm learning it, and considered some characters as kliba (third gender) who wouldn't be able to pass as female, but are recognizably kliba and are presumably public about it. Two years ago, I was in a D&D one-shot with a character who could pass via at-will Disguise Self, but he/she was gender fluid - identifying as the gender of the current projected image - so the gender fluidity was obvious to the party who knew him/her.

These RPG games that conform to the zeitgeist are not stupid to do so.
1 the elite are throwing alot of energy and money around to celebrate gender confusion and abnormalities because they dont want to be sued or worse for putting the stuff that creates it into our food and medicine. Its not 1996 anymore its nolonger 0.05% of the population its much higher. Also with this rise even in the cases that its not it also makes sense to pander to these types as these are the new cultural warriors replacing the Christians and the last time D&D did not find a way to conform it did not go well and this time its so much easier, We got a group of people who think of so many identities for themselves even heralding flags for it in daily life even calling themselves DRAGONKIN seems kinda stupid to be on the wrong side of this. Better for them to ingratiate these types instead of being on the wrong end of a satanic panic. This way the game can be played with the whole family in public in mixed company. Anti colonialist, well the culture has been leaning into the colonialists are the bad guys and its not without merit for a long time and white people have not been so prideful that they arent willing to take an L on this. If you are marketing to the whole world you want the whole world at the table and not get them triggered.

Quote from: Korvosa on December 28, 2023, 01:44:20 AMAnti colonialist, well the culture has been leaning into the colonialists are the bad guys and its not without merit for a long time and white people have not been so prideful that they arent willing to take an L on this.

Very emotionally healthy


One group apologizing for simply doing what every other group has done throughout history. Except white people were on top most recently, when they made the unprecedented decision that it was bad.

Imagine Zulus and Māori pointing the finger for being colonialists, it's wild. The Persian Empire, which continued as the Ottoman Empire, thousands of years of conquering and enslaving on unimaginable scale, and their descendants waving the POC victim card.

Quote from: Korvosa on December 28, 2023, 01:44:20 AM
These RPG games that conform to the zeitgeist are not stupid to do so.
1 the elite are throwing alot of energy and money around to celebrate gender confusion and abnormalities because they dont want to be sued or worse for putting the stuff that creates it into our food and medicine. Its not 1996 anymore its nolonger 0.05% of the population its much higher. Also with this rise even in the cases that its not it also makes sense to pander to these types as these are the new cultural warriors replacing the Christians and the last time D&D did not find a way to conform it did not go well and this time its so much easier, We got a group of people who think of so many identities for themselves even heralding flags for it in daily life even calling themselves DRAGONKIN seems kinda stupid to be on the wrong side of this. Better for them to ingratiate these types instead of being on the wrong end of a satanic panic. This way the game can be played with the whole family in public in mixed company. Anti colonialist, well the culture has been leaning into the colonialists are the bad guys and its not without merit for a long time and white people have not been so prideful that they arent willing to take an L on this. If you are marketing to the whole world you want the whole world at the table and not get them triggered.

This assumes the whole world outside of the USA agrees with the woke...

I've got news for you, the woke are 8% of the US population, outside of the first world? Much less, take Latin America for example, we despise the woke.

So, they are pandering to a niche within a niche: The tiny percentage within the 8% that will both pay and play their shit.

On the other hand you could market to the tiny percentage within the 92% of the population that will both pay and play their shit.

Which is a higher number and a better business decision?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 28, 2023, 02:27:48 AM
This assumes the whole world outside of the USA agrees with the woke...

I've got news for you, the woke are 8% of the US population, outside of the first world? Much less, take Latin America for example, we despise the woke.

So, they are pandering to a niche within a niche: The tiny percentage within the 8% that will both pay and play their shit.

On the other hand you could market to the tiny percentage within the 92% of the population that will both pay and play their shit.

Which is a higher number and a better business decision?

well I was talking more about the anti colonialist side. I never hear anything about the the rest of the world trying to talk about the self deprecating behavior of the west is a problem instead I only see the rest of the world encoraging it (publicly). I know the woke stuff isnt popular in the rest of the world. But ttrpgs in general is western culture and if it presents itself in its current zeitgeist then we have these woke rpgs. What group of people in the world are attracted to english language and foreign products? The leftists in most countries while some of the wokeness in these products is infact shocking when you look at the worst of it, the actual products are very palatable and imo a higher quality product. The lore in PF2 imo is better than that of D&D 2e 3e and PF1. Yes some of it is likely not something I want to encourage like the adventure paths as because its so hard coded. Otherwise the wokeness of PF2 in a PF2 game is pretty subtle . All you need to do to remove it is just homebrew it slightly different and spin it the other way. It is an imagination game after all.

Quote from: jhkim on December 27, 2023, 02:22:41 PM
For the general points... In my D&D campaigns, it has been normal for there to be scars (magical healing wasn't assumed to eliminate scars), and being permanently polymorphed to a new body isn't commonly available - and certainly not cheap. I've only briefly played Pathfinder, though, and I'm not sure what the setting was.

That may be the case in your D&D campaign.  It's not the case in Golarion.  In Golarion, it's possible to fully transform into the opposite sex using alchemy with no surgery required.  We know because there is a character called Anevia in Wrath or the Righteous who did just that.  That adventure came out in 2013. 

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 06:46:05 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 26, 2023, 06:38:53 AM
I'd say that if anything spread bigotry it is the militant, radical, totalitarian (to the point of wanting to criminalize anyone disagreeing with their ideology) and aggressive (to the point of violence) nature of "trans activism", which has completely hijacked the left, and clearly presents a kind of lifestyle that has nothing to do with sexual dysmorphia itself, but rather the aggressive attempt to garner power and control over society/culture (including families and education).

The ideologues have nothing to do with the people who actually have the condition. You would be surprised how different the opinions of real trans people are with those involved in the culture war are. How different and diverse those opinions are.

My personal belief it that being trans is a transitory condition. A purgatory waiting to be corrected. And I sure as heck do not want the whole world to be about that ugly phase.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. I know many LGBT people and most of the ones I know are really disgusted at the co-opting of some kind of 'trans culture' (as well as the general LGBT moniker) for the purpose of ideological terrorism.
That was kind of the point of what I said in the post above.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 05:47:53 PM
I have enough issues allowing a trans character to exist within my fiction. I don't want to play them in my gaming. It cuts too close to real life. And I play RPGs to escape.

I don't want anyone bringing their political agenda to my table. I just want to run games and escape the real world while I am doing so.

I got no problems with people playing any character of any sexuality they want. I just don't want it up in my face. The games I run have very little to do with any sexuality. Because I see that as truly a side issue in my adventure design. It's not a prime motivator.

I don't want anyone's sexuality up in my face. No matter what it is.

This should be every gamer's position.

I'm sorry that I wasn't paying enough attention to this thread and allowed it to veer away from the specific topic of the video and into broader off-topic discussion. Given how badly it has gone in that direction, in this case with a mea culpa for not keeping a close eye, I'm closing this topic. While reminding everyone that RPG topics that involve culture war issues MUST stick to the RPG context.