Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 11:54:02 AM
I'm done with engaging with hatemongers.

I doubt it's hate so much as concern due to many potential negative consequences associated with it (and because when asshats are the main ones shouting about it, it's easy to desire retaliation against those individuals and the causes they claim to be pushing).

I guess what I don't understand is why receiving treatments of estrogen to deal with a medical situation (migraines) requires swapping one's declared gender; particularly given all the complications associated with the surgical procedures of transitioning.

It's not like men don't have estrogen; it's just typically at much lower levels than is found in women of childbearing years; and it has all sorts of body regulatory functions (many of which could be associated with migraines if imbalanced) beyond sex characteristics.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 11:54:02 AM
<snip> hatemongers.

There's a difference between hate speech and speech that you hate.

I'm more inclined to view the militant activist "stab a transphobe" crowd as propagating actual hate speech than the people who are merely voicing disagreement with the opinions of the lettered folk. Last I checked, opinions are not something that people living in America get to stab other people over having.

As far as I am concerned, I don't hate anyone who is a biological male claiming that they are a woman. I can't believe it and affirm it, though. I don't have to respect and buy into anyone's personal worldview anymore than they have to respect and buy into my own. I'm not going to condemn you for thinking you are a woman. That's your own headspace to deal with not mine.

Just don't expect everyone to affirm you or else. That's where the hate speech really comes out.

Quote from: squirewaldo on December 26, 2023, 12:11:15 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 11:54:02 AM
I'm done with engaging with hatemongers.

What a pity you are incapable of distinguishing between people who simply disagree with you vs people who hate you. It is just another delusion you suffer from. But it only harms you... for now.

Thing is I don't hate anyone, I also only kneel before God and my King.

But the "hate-speech, trans-hate, transphobia, hatemongers, bigots, etc" is just a tool they have grown used to employ to silence any and all criticism of the trans-lobby and particular LGBTQWiffipassword people.

It's become almost 100% useles and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 06:27:28 AM
You know what? I'm done here.

The people here spewing trans hate and misinformation have nothing to do with the reality of the condition itself. It just spreads bigotry. Which I deal with enough every day. I'm done. I've had enough.

I naver had any problem with this Gay/Trans shit until they started coming for the children. 

Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 26, 2023, 11:29:12 AM
I can handle people like Pawsplay misinforming people with pro-tans-hate and racist bigotry.  It's good to have a free speech forum that lets people's true colors be known.

Well with a name like "pawsplay", I think tranny insanity might be only part of the problem.  Everyone has skeletons in their closet.  Not everyone has a fursona in there

edit: made sure I spelled "fursona" properly

Greetings!

"Yes! Let the Hate flow!"

Trimming the fat from culture, and the degenerates from society is necessary for the normal society to thrive and prosper. If normal people refuse to cleanse society of the degenerates, then the society will be corrupted and destroyed.

The same process needs to be fully embraced to save D&D as a hobby.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 09:12:35 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 26, 2023, 08:27:49 AM
Yes they do. They influence policy in government and academia and media. Ostensibly to represent trans people, but really to represent their demented ideology, and exert social control over people.

What they claim they represent has nothing to do with the reality of the condition. That's the bottom line.

That's not the bottom line. The trans activists have wielded the trans cause like a sledgehammer to smash society and get hurtful ideas into the mainstream. So you see a lot of reactionary and resentful attitudes towards trans topics. I'm sorry for all the trans people who feel like it's personal, who just want to live and let live, but that's what happens when ideologues grab an identity and swing it around like a club.

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 26, 2023, 11:22:07 AM
I think most folks would agree that children shouldn't get to suddenly change their medical choice paradigm within a legal context here and only here to act without parental consent. Likewise, I'd be skeptical of any parent who transitioned their child at a young age or the like. Especially since detransitioning can be as hard socially or biologically as it oftentimes is. And children who cannot even vote or have the mental capacity to have guardianship over themselves seem to me potentially vulnerable within that sort of context.

The children factor is one of the big hurtful things the trans activists have been responsible for. The number of detransitioners who have stories about how they were uninformed or misled, and the backlash from the trans activism community towards them for speaking out about the details of their "transition".
In the end, we don't have the medical technology (yet*) to allow someone to change their sex. There are all kinds of bizzare complications and side effects of the cosmetic surgeries and hormone "treatments" that are irreversable, and should not, under any circumstances, be performed on children.

I'm not advocating transition be for anyone but myself. It's a difficult life choice that shouldn't be taken lightly. An adult choice.

I don't support transition for children. Regardless of aspects of transition that would be made easier starting before puberty would be. It's not something a child can truly process.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 04:45:57 PM
I'm not advocating transition be for anyone but myself. It's a difficult life choice that shouldn't be taken lightly. An adult choice.

I don't support transition for children. Regardless of aspects of transition that would be made easier starting before puberty would be. It's not something a child can truly process.

Good for you. But we're talking about the trans activist community who do.

https://opa.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2023-08/gender-affirming-care-young-people.pdf

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 04:45:57 PM
I'm not advocating transition be for anyone but myself. It's a difficult life choice that shouldn't be taken lightly. An adult choice.

I don't support transition for children. Regardless of aspects of transition that would be made easier starting before puberty would be. It's not something a child can truly process.

This is a brave and solid stance, especially for someone in your societal position, where there may potentially be pressure at times to the contrary. (Can't speak for you on that, so consider this an uninformed shot in the dark.)

I don't support hate, and also think people have the right to decide that kind of thing for themselves as adults once they have that degree of learned autonomy. Doesn't mean I buy into mainstream trans ideology or the like, or that people should have to, but live and let live is the name of the game for me politically. I fear when ideologues of either side start repressing speech and the like, and it's unfortunate that this sort of thing seems to be more and more mainstream on both sides of the political spectrum. I fear for our constitutional liberties and freedoms, and I am suspect of corporate power and more to the point related governance and censorship at this point. We seem to be facing a series of related turning points as a nation, and I get that tensions are understandably high as a result. Hopefully it all works out and cooler heads prevail, but I think it's hard for anyone on whatever side to trust folks at the moment, so I get where you too would be a little sensitive to such things.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 04:45:57 PM
I'm not advocating transition be for anyone but myself. It's a difficult life choice that shouldn't be taken lightly. An adult choice.

I don't support transition for children. Regardless of aspects of transition that would be made easier starting before puberty would be. It's not something a child can truly process.

For you as an adult, I support your right to make that decision.  I don't support the decision itself as I've seen too many disasters, but I wish you well.  It's like joining the Hell's Angels or marrying a stripper, it's your life to fuck up any way you see fit.  Being trans won't exclude you from my table or my BBQs, only bad behavior.

Sadly, it seems that trans issues are being shoved into every aspect of daily life now.  As far as gaming goes, there seems to be a lot of products and companies that are pushing the political agenda.  Much of what's being pushed isn't helpful to trans people, it's just ruining the fun we could be having.  I don't like sexual themes at my table, even when they align with my sexuality.  Why would I want to delve into someone else's and why would someone else want me involved in their intimate thoughts on the issue?

Finally, I really wish that more tans people that want more balanced and honest representation would talk to the activists carrying their flag to STFU because they are hurting everyone.

I have enough issues allowing a trans character to exist within my fiction. I don't want to play them in my gaming. It cuts too close to real life. And I play RPGs to escape.

I don't want anyone bringing their political agenda to my table. I just want to run games and escape the real world while I am doing so.

I got no problems with people playing any character of any sexuality they want. I just don't want it up in my face. The games I run have very little to do with any sexuality. Because I see that as truly a side issue in my adventure design. It's not a prime motivator.

I don't want anyone's sexuality up in my face. No matter what it is.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 05:47:53 PM
I have enough issues allowing a trans character to exist within my fiction. I don't want to play them in my gaming. It cuts too close to real life. And I play RPGs to escape.

I don't want anyone bringing their political agenda to my table. I just want to run games and escape the real world while I am doing so.

I got no problems with people playing any character of any sexuality they want. I just don't want it up in my face. The games I run have very little to do with any sexuality. Because I see that as truly a side issue in my adventure design. It's not a prime motivator.

I don't want anyone's sexuality up in my face. No matter what it is.

All very reasonable positions. Yet again, not talking about you or others like you when talking about the decisions of corporations like WotC to go down a different path. Or when talking about specific parts of the trans movement more broadly who push for that kind of thing.

Kind of get what you're expressing, though. A lot of times folks hear I trend conservative, or take a look at my skin color, outfit, and beard, and assume I support things that I don't. (Such as more authoritarian or overreaching "conservative" policy.) Never fun, that.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on December 26, 2023, 05:47:53 PM
I have enough issues allowing a trans character to exist within my fiction. I don't want to play them in my gaming. It cuts too close to real life. And I play RPGs to escape.

I don't want anyone bringing their political agenda to my table. I just want to run games and escape the real world while I am doing so.

I got no problems with people playing any character of any sexuality they want. I just don't want it up in my face. The games I run have very little to do with any sexuality. Because I see that as truly a side issue in my adventure design. It's not a prime motivator.

I don't want anyone's sexuality up in my face. No matter what it is.

So we have common ground.  We have some differences.  That's ok.  We aren't at cross purposes as far as I can see from here. 

Let's make a deal, I won't assume that the activists speak for you and others and you don't take our frustrations with the activist personally.