Quote from: James Gillen;786112A roleplaying game where the physical universe is a product of your collective imagination.
What a concept.

JG

That isn't actually the case in Kult.

Quote from: James Gillen;786112A roleplaying game where the physical universe is a product of your collective imagination.
What a concept.

JG

First, is this snark? If so, about which game? If you mean Mage, Kult predates it by two years.

Second, that's... not really what it's about. The idea that I thought was neat is more like some of the deep backstory written up about Hellraiser -- that humans were once godlike beings dwelling in Cities in some realm, they were ousted to this realm.

That we feel apart from the world and constantly build cities because all of this is wrong to us, and we build cities out of a semiconscious desire to recreate the true realm we once built/inhabited. Or something.

It's very literally gnostic, demiurge and everything. Most of the monsters are our former servants who now rejoice in our lowly state.

Quote from: James Gillen;786112A roleplaying game where the physical universe is a product of your collective imagination.
What a concept.

JG

Quote from: Warthur;786125That isn't actually the case in Kult.

Yeah. You can say a lot of stuff about Kult - even some bad stuff - but "consensus reality" isn't one of them.

Kult is a very inspiring setting with a strong need of a better game system. I found a fan-retooled system for Kult on the web and I ran a very satisfying one-shot with it (Echoes from the past featuring Jesus Christ Himself !!!)

Alas, the whole thing is in French (if you are interested, you can PM me and I will send you the link) !

Given that Kult's system strikes me as having a fair amount of BRP influence, I'd be inclined to cook up a BRP version with the Big Gold Book and port over the mental balance rules.

Quote from: Warthur;786180Given that Kult's system strikes me as having a fair amount of BRP influence, I'd be inclined to cook up a BRP version with the Big Gold Book and port over the mental balance rules.

I'd probably try to go with CoC, just because it's already a minimal setup of the BGB... but swap out the Insanity rules for Kult's version... and maybe look at Enlightened Magic for ideas on converting the magic (which I don't remember that well and would have to read again to see how Kult worked it).

Quote from: James Gillen;785774Yeah, if we cleaned up Nightlife a little bit that would be a good alternative.

JG

Quote from: The_Shadow;785810Chaosium's Nephilim has its fans, though its not so heavy on the vampires and werewolves.

Quote from: Simlasa;785765GURPS Cabal, by Kenneth Hite, seems like another good take on the subject. Play as monster hunters or as the monsters. I think it's a bit inspired by WOD, but also by Clive Barker's Nightbreed and maybe the Nightwatch/Daywatch books by Sergei Lukyanenko.

I have this crazy idea of one day mashing up Nightlife, Nephilim, Cabal, and Witchcraft, and running it with Fate.

One day...

Quote from: yabaziou;786049As a Frenchman, it is quite funny to read about old French RPG on a English/American speaking RPG forum in 2014.

INS/MV is at least 20 years old and its original French version is actual a satytical RPG which lambasts religion and France.

Nephilim is at least 15 years old and the French and the American versions are quite similar, for whar I know about it.

To return to OP question, I will also second the motion that Urban Shadows might be able to fulfill your desire of playing WoD without none of the WW/OPP wankery.

The Buffy RPG is quite interesting and solid, according to what I read in it and it also might be a good way to have fun with the creatures of the night.

Thank Benoist, a Frenchman here for many years who touted the wonders of French RPGs, for educating us.

Quote from: Herne's Son;786258I have this crazy idea of one day mashing up Nightlife, Nephilim, Cabal, and Witchcraft, and running it with Fate.

One day...

Those games are all designed to portray magic and the supernatural and as a result their concepts overlap everywhere. Each makes wildly different assumptions about the nature of reality and their backgrounds and mechanics extend from that. Each one of them is written to evoke a particular theme and genre. You can't mash them up without either watering them down completely or creating a nonsensical cosmology.

Nightlife's premise is that monsters are the manifestation of humanity's fears. Vampires, werewolves, wights and whatever all coexist in a supernatural underworld (metaphorically). It is set firmly in the splatterpunk genre and the late 80s.

Nephilim's premise is that sunlight and the earth's magnetic fields are really the magical fields that give rise to the five elements and magical beings born of these elements, but the Bavarian Illuminati are keeping this secret so they can exploit those magical creatures for themselves because humans can't perform magic on their own. It is set firmly in the conspiracy thriller and apocalyptic genres.

I haven't read Cabal, but I know Witchcraft bases its cosmology on Kabalah with Wicca and spiritualism and animism and whatever shoehorned into that. You have witches, intelligent cats, ghosts, emotional vampires, spirits, lycanthropes, demons, Cthulhu wannabes, and so on.  It is set firmly in the "everything and the kitchen sink" urban fantasy genre. In fact, it was created directly in response to World of Darkness, but at least it doesn't suffer the same absurd pretentiousness of The Everlasting.

EDIT:

Quote from: yabaziou;786049Nephilim is at least 15 years old and the French and the American versions are quite similar, for whar I know about it.

I'm pretty sure it came out in 1992. It released a 20th anniversary edition volume that obviously wasn't just an attempt to cash in on the craze of Vampire: The Masquerade 20th anniversary edition.

Quote from: Warthur;786024Eh, I found Witchcraft kind of bland myself.

In Witchcraft the splats don't run into each other that often and only work together on occasion. Hunter the Vigil is almost the same. The splats don't interact that often. They only work together on a hunt. Politics isn't the focus. Do you think that game is bland as well?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;786276T
I haven't read Cabal, but I know Witchcraft bases its cosmology on Kabalah with Wicca and spiritualism and animism and whatever shoehorned into that. You have witches, intelligent cats, ghosts, emotional vampires, spirits, lycanthropes, demons, Cthulhu wannabes, and so on.  It is set firmly in the "everything and the kitchen sink" urban fantasy genre. In fact, it was created directly in response to World of Darkness, but at least it doesn't suffer the same absurd pretentiousness of The Everlasting.
.

That's why I like Witchcraft. Yes it is generic. But yes it's a kitchen sink. It's so broad you make it what you want it to be. I find it more flexible than new WoD. Maybe I just like maximalistic (kitchen sink) settings better than minimalistic (toolkit) ones? Mage the Awakening is a bit vague in it's background, but I don't think you can turn the game into an angel-demon war, a Great Old One horror setting or a setting where the apocalypse is happening right now.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;786284That's why I like Witchcraft. Yes it is generic. But yes it's a kitchen sink. It's so broad you make it what you want it to be. I find it more flexible than new WoD. Maybe I just like maximalistic (kitchen sink) settings better than minimalistic (toolkit) ones? Mage the Awakening is a bit vague in it's background, but I don't think you can turn the game into an angel-demon war, a Great Old One horror setting or a setting where the apocalypse is happening right now.

I saw someone once refer to Witchcraft as: "If 'Call of Cthulhu' is the official H.P. Lovecraft RPG, then 'Witchcraft' is the unofficial Stephen King RPG."

I think that's a pretty decent description.

Quote from: Herne's Son;786329...'Witchcraft' is the unofficial Stephen King RPG."

So interesting characters but the book is at least twice as long as it ought to be and desperately needed a good editor and at least one more rewrite?

OK, I'm trying to sort through what the OP actually wants:

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;785749I like the premise of World of Darkness where a paranormal underworld hides vampires, werewolves and other monsters and the players take on the roles of said monsters, but I don't particularly like the background or the restrictive and idiosyncratic rules.

Are there are any alternatives or competitors to that game?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;785855I'm loosely familiar with Everlasting, Nephilim, Nightbane, Nightlife, Witchcraft, Immortal: The Invisible War, and Other Court Game's Factions RPG, but most don't seem to be supported anymore and use clunky 90s rules (in some cases ripped-off from World of Darkness). A lot of them have clear improvements (Everlasting has an integrated magical underworld and universal powers, Witchcraft has more flexible monster classes, etc), but the downside is that they aren't as popular or supported as World of Darkness despite these improvements.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;786069Witchcraft sounds like it might be great, but the free PDF is crap quality with missing fonts and stuff. It's never received a new book since 2004 despite promises and the official website with bonus content was taken down years ago (I could only find it with the wayback machine).

Most of the games competing for the dark urban fantasy niche are OOP, have badly aged rules, bad writing, or heavily reference future books that were never produced. It's frustrating for someone who wants a more or less complete experience.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;785905Urban Shadows sounds like it might be what I'm looking for. It's rules-lite, has a flexible background, and includes the popular archetypes (vampires, werewolves, witches, fairies, ghosts, dragons) out of the box. I can only hope it will prove a viable competitor to World of Darkness with its own vibrant community.

Sounds like you're much better informed than the OP would suggest. In which case you probably know the answer is no, there is no urban fantasy rpg that is current and as well supported as WoD — if well supported means "lots of supplements to spoon-feed me the metaplot".

You realise Urban Shadows is a brand new PbtA game with indie roots, and therefore pretty much a toolkit system? You're happy with indie's DIY approach ("flexible background"), but lament the lack of mainstream alternatives to WoD with lots of supplements?

You don't like Witchcraft for the fonts? Really?

I mean, I'm not sure what to tell you. If you don't like the rules, use different ones. If you don't like the conspiracy, reject it. If no commercial product exists that scratches your itch, do what we all do, suck it up and make your own. But given how well informed you are I suspect you already know this.

Quote from: smiorgan;786351You realise Urban Shadows is a brand new PbtA game with indie roots, and therefore pretty much a toolkit system? You're happy with indie's DIY approach ("flexible background"), but lament the lack of mainstream alternatives to WoD with lots of supplements?

Indeed; * World games are designed with quite a few specific assumptions about the world they are played in, but don't have "a setting" as such. It's really up to the GM to build that world, sometimes asking players for suggestions.

* World games also attract a lot of misguided hate and false assumptions, because REASONS!!!, I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I KS'd it, but it ain't going to be the next big thing in urban fantasy games.