Quote from: Skywalker;785753I can think of a few:

1. Dresden Files - well known licence, popular system if a little crunchy - http://www.evilhat.com/home/dresden-files-rpg/

Played it, wasn't impressed really. For my money it cleaves far too closely to the books; Wizards are better than everyone else (because magic Can Do Anything) so unless you're playing one, be prepared to be a sidekick. I was left feeling the Dresdenverse works better for a series of novels about a wizard than RPGing.

Quote from: Piestrio;785754Oh there are also the older Buffy and Angel games. A bit more lighthearted and campy but could be used to run a more serious game.

Angel also has demon creation rules which are basically a toolkit for making any sort of "being with power", which is neat. And rules for organisations.

Quote from: yabaziou;785796the game itself is only made 6 books, one of which has been disavowed by Palladium Publishing

That I didn't know! Which one?

Quote from: yabaziou;785796You can have a look at Kult (but maybe it has become hard to find and the system is a bit tedious) or WitchCraft by C.J CARELLA, the author beyond Nightbane, which is also worth reading, unless tou are allergic to random character creation and/or the Palladium system (the game itself is only made 6 books, one of which has been disavowed by Palladium Publishing and I thin you can find the 4 older books at a faire price in second hand market).

Which one was disavowed and why?

Cyberpunk 2020 with the Night's Edge expansion supplement was the best.

Chaosium's Nephilim has its fans, though its not so heavy on the vampires and werewolves.

More options...

Savage Worlds has a horror expansion.

Another Palladium option is Beyond the Supernatural.   Or RIFTS, even, depending on how much gonzo breaks your suspension of disbelief.

As for 'monsters behind the veil' there's always Cthulu.

Or, going the other way, the MtG Bloodlines game on Steam can probably sell you on the mythos.  With the mods that update it to modern graphics anyway.

Quote from: LibraryLass;785776On the Vampire side there's Night's Black Agents, which uses the same GUMSHOE system as Trail of Cthulhu.

The author is quite explicit in his opinions on "playing the vampire" games, though (Although it would be pretty easily hackable).

Quote from: Warthur;785806Which one was disavowed and why?

@Warthur and the Butcher : It is Shadows of Light, credited to Jason Vey. It is the 5th book in the Nightbane RPG line and it is not avalaible through the Palladium Store website : https://palladium-store.com/1001/category/Nightbane.html

As the reason why, I don't know precisely but I think creative differences/bad public reception of the book which is very different from the 4 other books.

Since I don't remember it well, I will not speculate futher about it.

Quote from: Ladybird;785814The author is quite explicit in his opinions on "playing the vampire" games, though (Although it would be pretty easily hackable).

When was this? I thought Ken Hite wrote for Vampire: the Masquerade once upon a time...

Quote from: Warthur;785833When was this? I thought Ken Hite wrote for Vampire: the Masquerade once upon a time...

According to what I read on the internet, Kenneth Kite has freelanced in the following books for WW :

Bygone Bestiary (oWod) ;
Caïnite Heresy (VtDa) ;
Chicago (VtR) ;
Chicago Workings (VtR) ;
Crusade Lore (MtSC) ;
Guide to the Camarilla (VtM) ;
Mage the Sorcerers Crusade (MtSC) ;
Requiem for Rome (VtR) ;
Secrets of the Ruined Temple (MtAw).

So, yes, Kenneth Hite has written for VtM.

Yeah, I checked RPG.net's index to check on what stuff he's published (which is quite useful for that).

Googling around I've still not found any sources on him slamming RPGs where you play the vampires so hopefully Ladybird will be able to clarify.

Quote from: jibbajibba;785762what is it that bothers you?

When we played WoD we used the alternate paths , so humanity wasn't your only option, we dumped the angst and went to superhero monster mode but we used the masquerade, princes, the Sabat etc as that stuff makes a pretty playable game space.

If you look at most of the urban horror genre from Blade to Twilight to Dresden to True Blood they have a similar set of setting assumptions.
i. Mosters are amongst us
ii. They are hidden from mortal eyes
iii. There is a governing body of some sort that ensures stuff stays hidden and enforces the rules
iv. there are lots of politicking and rivalries

What is it that puts you off the game? Setting? mechanics?

As far as setting goes, I take issue with the supernatural underworld being ruled by a global conspiracy. The logistics involved make it impossible to maintain. Secondly, the different monster classes aren't integrated socially. If there were several different types of supernatural monster living in secret, I would expect that a supernatural underworld where they all interact would form. Thirdly, the monster classes have very specific backgrounds out of the box that prevent many character concepts. For example, out of the box werewolves always run in families and you can't perform a ritual to become one or pass on the condition.

As far as rules go, the system in World of Darkness is very clunky and the character classes each use completely different rules for adjudicating supernatural powers and the powers themselves are fairly restricted. Vampires out of the box are generally unable to levitate, crawl up walls, or teleport through doors like they can in plenty of movies. Powers are structured into linear paths that require you to buy filler powers before you can get the ones you actually want. There are pages and pages of laundry lists of powers because of the clunky rules.

I'm loosely familiar with Everlasting, Nephilim, Nightbane, Nightlife, Witchcraft, Immortal: The Invisible War, and Other Court Game's Factions RPG, but most don't seem to be supported anymore and use clunky 90s rules (in some cases ripped-off from World of Darkness). A lot of them have clear improvements (Everlasting has an integrated magical underworld and universal powers, Witchcraft has more flexible monster classes, etc), but the downside is that they aren't as popular or supported as World of Darkness despite these improvements.

Quote from: Kiero;785798I was left feeling the Dresdenverse works better for a series of novels about a wizard than RPGing.

I find that ironic.  As quite a fan of the supernatural detective genre, one of the things that turned me off of the Dresden Files books was the very RPG-ish nature of the supernatural beings in the setting.

QuoteAngel also has demon creation rules which are basically a toolkit for making any sort of "being with power", which is neat. And rules for organisations.

We did something similar back in the day, playing in the world of Clive Barker's Cabal post-Midian using the Freak Legion book for oWoD.

Quote from: Warthur;785850Googling around I've still not found any sources on him slamming RPGs where you play the vampires so hopefully Ladybird will be able to clarify.

Night's Black Agents, page 126.

Quote from: Ken HiteVampire Agents
“I want to play the good vampire.” If it were up to me, nobody would ever get to play the good vampire ever again in any medium. It is, sadly, not up to me.
As written, vampires are, obviously, much more powerful and versatile than  human agents with the same fund of points. Further, the vampire powers are not balanced against each other, because in  Night’s Black Agents,vampires are intended to be scary enemies rather than game-mechanical constructs.
If a player absolutely insists on playing a vampire agent, and you as Director  have made the foolhardy decision to contravene my whim on the topic, make sure he suffers all applicable vampire weaknesses and an incurable Addictive Disorder (p. 84) for human blood. In addition, player vampires draw special attention from enemy vampires; this may affect their Difficulty in contests of Surveillance, for example, if vampires can always spot their own in a crowd. Humans or player-character vampires in general must buy each vampire power as a separate ability with their fund of General ability points; rather than power them all with Aberrance, they must use the pool for the specific ability to power it. This especially includes each separate mental attack; the Director should also break, e.g., Mesmerism down into its component abilities: Entrance, Deepen Slumber, Command, Sway Emotions. Treat such powers as Paramormal abilities (see p. 196)
In addition, “being a vampire” (with whatever  standard  benefits  and  free powers that conveys in terms of armor, strength, talons, etc.) costs 20 build points at character creation. Player characters who get vampirized during the course of the campaign but do not fall completely under their sire’s sway (thus becoming NPCs) must spend those points from experience as they slowly turn. They may shift points from their existing abilities to new vampiric power abilities at the Director’s discretion (one new ability per session, for example). The Director can always rule any given vampire powers off limits to agents, even if enemy vampires have them.
Another option is to allow player character Renfields (see p. 152). This is far less unbalancing, because the package of specific abilities and bonuses falls more closely under the Director’s control.
However it works, though, the Director should remember that the purpose of the game is horror and mystery: being — or being on the same team as — a vampire should expose players to vastly higher levels of both.
{Burn-mode games} Beginning as or becoming a vampire almost certainly removes a Symbol as a Source of Stability, and may make true Solace impossible as well.
{Burn-mode games} Every use of vampiric powers also requires a 4-point Stability test to embrace one’s essential inhumanity.
{Mirror-mode games} Human agents cannot give Trust to vampire or Renfield agents.

Note that because he is a quality author not a ranting maniac, he tells you how much he hates "good" vampires, then gives you rules for them anyway.

(In practice, doing a WoD-esque vamp hack for Gumshoe wouldn't be too difficult.)

Even when he is unhappy about something, Mr Hite is able to stay classy !