Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 31, 2023, 05:04:54 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on December 31, 2023, 04:49:37 PM
Let's phrase that differently. Conversation spaces that aren't forced to admit white black people.

Yep, racist confirmed.

Was there any doubt?

The worst part is the guy must think he can't be racist towards white people because buzzword, word salad, buzzword.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 31, 2023, 07:44:26 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 31, 2023, 05:04:54 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on December 31, 2023, 04:49:37 PM
Let's phrase that differently. Conversation spaces that aren't forced to admit white black people.

Yep, racist confirmed.

Was there any doubt?

The worst part is the guy must think he can't be racist towards white people because buzzword, word salad, buzzword.

The entitled racism of people like this is one of the very disconcerting signs of our times.  All the buzzwords and nomenclature boil down to... it's ok to be racist towards white people because they are bad.  These broken people view themselves as modern crusaders on a quest to right the universe, so they feel entitled to behave abominably and still embrace the delusion that they are the good guys.

"The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats." - Aldous Huxley



Aldous Huxley

Looking around various sites for LFG calls, and seeing all the weird hoops people jump through with safety tools and safe gaming. It's insanity.

Safety tools and the sites that host paid gaming and require them... They are literally branches of woke expression and constraint within the TTRPG market. They exist oftentimes as expressions of a sickness in the hobby. And more to the point, they exclude folks both from markets and from tables and from entire games (if the games requiring them have their way) on the basis of a lack of ideological conformity.

I'll also add this video as to why it's a bad idea in the hobby more generally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPlJPHcmd6s

Quote from: KindaMeh on January 06, 2024, 04:56:24 PM
Safety tools and the sites that host paid gaming and require them... They are literally branches of woke expression and constraint within the TTRPG market. They exist oftentimes as expressions of a sickness in the hobby. And more to the point, they exclude folks both from markets and from tables and from entire games (if the games requiring them have their way) on the basis of a lack of ideological conformity.

I'll also add this video as to why it's a bad idea in the hobby more generally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPlJPHcmd6s

It's everywhere in online gaming. Go to almost every place, Discord and such, that are to connect players and GM's. The first thing you see is LGBTQI+, Trans and BLM flags, and blocks of text saying how inclusive and moral they are. It's tagging territory with your gang colors.

Quote from: jhkim on December 13, 2023, 12:35:22 PM
My problem is blatantly misrepresenting what is actually in the books. If you want to complain about a disabled NPC on page 146 of one book, fine, but it's objectively false to say something like "WotC adventures are now all about making friends and going to prom and singing kumbaya" or to say that all dungeons are now wheelchair accessible.

If you want to say that WotC is a soulless corporation churning out generic content where every third book has a token progressive inclusion hidden somewhere in it, then fine. If you want to say that WotC is represents progressive values, then I'm going to disagree.

This is part of the problem. WotC spouts some woke sounding nonesense about a module. But then when you look at the module theres no such thing in it. Candlekeep has nothing that says "wheelchair accessible" and they keep doing this because they know it will get people to scream and that is free advertising.

They know doing a diversity hire for Radiant Citadel would get people riled. More free advertising.

As long as marketing keeps pushing that outrage marketing is profitable they will keep doing it.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 06, 2024, 06:33:34 PM
It's everywhere in online gaming. Go to almost every place, Discord and such, that are to connect players and GM's. The first thing you see is LGBTQI+, Trans and BLM flags, and blocks of text saying how inclusive and moral they are. It's tagging territory with your gang colors.

  Not just online. There's a Champions group in my area that's had a "looking for players" message up on the FLGS bulletin board for several months at least (possibly a couple of years), and the first thing they specify is "18+ and queer-friendly."

>queer-friendly
my thing there is they likely do not define queer friendly the same as me. i've had friends and players who were gay men (he's dead now but we had allen for many years, big gay al as we called him, after the southpark character of same name) and many lesbians (lesbians in my experience seem to outnumber gay men, they seem less frowned on and thus more open about it, two lesbians kissing makes my warp nacelle leak plasma but two gay men kissing makes me retch a little for example), we did not abuse them for it and treated them as we would want to be treated.

But these groups likely mean "militantly pro-queer, anti-hetero, anti-western, anti-christian, etc" when they say pro-queer. You can be gay and play at my table just fine, but not you, nor anyone else, should be making out at the table or doing ERP...we came to kill goblins dammit.

I will not lie and pretend that I do not find male on male to be an abomination and disgusting, but so long as you and your consenting adult partner can keep that out of sight (i don't bend my wife over the table in front of you, i expect the same from you, come on now) I can treat you just like a friend who chooses to drink an inferior brand of whiskey when I'm not looking. I find the male physical form to be disgusting really, so perhaps homophobe would be the right word except that i do not fear, so the phobe part is misassigned.

But I feel, based on having lived too long already, that by "queer friendly" they likely mean that if you don't lie and pretend to be enthusiastic about gaying all the things then you are a bigot. Ok sure I can be a bigot I guess.

I really dislike men acting effeminate though, as a separate issue that goes beyond whether you are queer or not, it really raises my hackles and cutesie shit puts me in a murderous mood, as I find it on a subconcious level to be uncanny valley, a sort of "neener-neener you won't dare hurt me" taunt, the air becomes pregnant with an unfulfilled need to drop harsh reality crashing down hard on the cutesie thing to remind it that this world is not cute, i am not cute, you are not cute, and cute is for the select few who deserve such like children who still believe in santa. It feels like you are somehow taking candy from orphans when a grown ass man tries to do cutesie.

If "queer friendly" means shut up and adopt every plank of my agenda with full rigor then you should be hanged for trying to weaponize language and being a disingenuous twat. You know who is allowed to play a magic anime girl? the 12 year old girl, NOT the 40 something neckbeard. (said girl can also play a pokemon type monster and the rest of you will be told to make normal characters because you are not a 12 y/o girl).

>unnnhhh its not fair
life is not fair, even god got ganked by the romans for equipping cloth armor in a melee slot, you will fair no better, so take this form, draw a picture of your blasted ass on it and shade in the area where it hurts for me so i can kick you there until you straighten up.

Yeah I'm "queer friendly" I'm just not "pedantic dumbshit" friendly I suppose.

Quote from: Slipshot762 on January 07, 2024, 01:07:58 AM
But these groups likely mean "militantly pro-queer, anti-hetero, anti-western, anti-christian, etc" when they say pro-queer.

"Queer" is one of those words with different meanings to different people.
To most people it just means some umbrella term for gay, lesbian, bi, etc.
But there is also an ideological and political meaning of the word.
Queer theory
That is where you get your militant activist mentality.

Quote from: KindaMeh on January 06, 2024, 04:56:24 PM
Safety tools and the sites that host paid gaming and require them... They are literally branches of woke expression and constraint within the TTRPG market. They exist oftentimes as expressions of a sickness in the hobby. And more to the point, they exclude folks both from markets and from tables and from entire games (if the games requiring them have their way) on the basis of a lack of ideological conformity.

I'll also add this video as to why it's a bad idea in the hobby more generally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPlJPHcmd6s

I think he sums it up nicely, and while the "if you need safety tools to play a game, you have bigger issues and probably shouldn't play" sounds harsh, it's absolutely true. These things are primarily in place to have people conform to some weird and arbitrary constraints, not on what you put in your games, but on how you can and must behave. This is indeed, like RPG Elite says, pandering to the lowest common denominator around the table.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 06, 2024, 09:43:35 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 06, 2024, 06:33:34 PM
It's everywhere in online gaming. Go to almost every place, Discord and such, that are to connect players and GM's. The first thing you see is LGBTQI+, Trans and BLM flags, and blocks of text saying how inclusive and moral they are. It's tagging territory with your gang colors.

  Not just online. There's a Champions group in my area that's had a "looking for players" message up on the FLGS bulletin board for several months at least (possibly a couple of years), and the first thing they specify is "18+ and queer-friendly."

I know a guy who was regularly running pick-up games at his FLGS, in the year of our Lord 2023. That requires some combination of bravery and brain injury.

If queer friendly means what people say it means, then I find the whole thing to be pointless.  They say it's just a statement that you won't be assholes to queer people.  How about not being an asshole full stop?  This is what I would call a normal game.  You don't need to specify that people not be assholes to this small subset of players.  Just don't be an asshole.  You don't need to virtue signal about it.  Just don't be an asshole.

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 07, 2024, 08:03:51 AM
If queer friendly means what people say it means, then I find the whole thing to be pointless.  They say it's just a statement that you won't be assholes to queer people.  How about not being an asshole full stop?  This is what I would call a normal game.  You don't need to specify that people not be assholes to this small subset of players.  Just don't be an asshole.  You don't need to virtue signal about it.  Just don't be an asshole.

If that's what it meant, I'd be cool with it.  What it means is your game has to be a gay pride celebration. 

Quote from: Slipshot762 on January 07, 2024, 01:07:58 AM
>queer-friendly
my thing there is they likely do not define queer friendly the same as me. i've had friends and players who were gay men (he's dead now but we had allen for many years, big gay al as we called him, after the southpark character of same name) and many lesbians (lesbians in my experience seem to outnumber gay men, they seem less frowned on and thus more open about it, two lesbians kissing makes my warp nacelle leak plasma but two gay men kissing makes me retch a little for example), we did not abuse them for it and treated them as we would want to be treated.

But these groups likely mean "militantly pro-queer, anti-hetero, anti-western, anti-christian, etc" when they say pro-queer. You can be gay and play at my table just fine, but not you, nor anyone else, should be making out at the table or doing ERP...we came to kill goblins dammit.

I will not lie and pretend that I do not find male on male to be an abomination and disgusting, but so long as you and your consenting adult partner can keep that out of sight (i don't bend my wife over the table in front of you, i expect the same from you, come on now) I can treat you just like a friend who chooses to drink an inferior brand of whiskey when I'm not looking. I find the male physical form to be disgusting really, so perhaps homophobe would be the right word except that i do not fear, so the phobe part is misassigned.

But I feel, based on having lived too long already, that by "queer friendly" they likely mean that if you don't lie and pretend to be enthusiastic about gaying all the things then you are a bigot. Ok sure I can be a bigot I guess.

I really dislike men acting effeminate though, as a separate issue that goes beyond whether you are queer or not, it really raises my hackles and cutesie shit puts me in a murderous mood, as I find it on a subconcious level to be uncanny valley, a sort of "neener-neener you won't dare hurt me" taunt, the air becomes pregnant with an unfulfilled need to drop harsh reality crashing down hard on the cutesie thing to remind it that this world is not cute, i am not cute, you are not cute, and cute is for the select few who deserve such like children who still believe in santa. It feels like you are somehow taking candy from orphans when a grown ass man tries to do cutesie.

If "queer friendly" means shut up and adopt every plank of my agenda with full rigor then you should be hanged for trying to weaponize language and being a disingenuous twat. You know who is allowed to play a magic anime girl? the 12 year old girl, NOT the 40 something neckbeard. (said girl can also play a pokemon type monster and the rest of you will be told to make normal characters because you are not a 12 y/o girl).

>unnnhhh its not fair
life is not fair, even god got ganked by the romans for equipping cloth armor in a melee slot, you will fair no better, so take this form, draw a picture of your blasted ass on it and shade in the area where it hurts for me so i can kick you there until you straighten up.

Yeah I'm "queer friendly" I'm just not "pedantic dumbshit" friendly I suppose.

Preach.

I don't make you practice Christianity to play at my table.  I don't make you vote Republican to sit at my table.  I don't make you kiss a girl to be a permanent member of my gaming group.  All you have to do is want to play the game.  So, honestly, my table is far more inclusive than any of these "queer-friendly" tables that demand you behave and believe their narrow ideologies in order to participate.  They are the bigots, not me...

I just don't give a fuck about player's sexuality.  What you do with other consenting adults is your business and doesn't have anything to do with what we are doing here.