Quote from: Elfdart on December 03, 2023, 07:52:57 PM
The real problem is that for most of the IP owners, who didn't create the material and don't feel any special connection to it, it's considered less hassle to simply pay off the troublemakers by giving in to their demands, shelling out chump change to them, or both*. Eventually, this backfires because it pisses off loyal customers who will not only NOT buy the new product, but will go elsewhere to spend their money -or in many cases, will find new pastimes.

I watched the NFL religiously since 1978. By 2016 I was done and haven't watched more than a few minutes of any pro football game. The same goes for Star Wars, which I started watching in 1977 and stopped watching after Solo.

Among RPGs, a lot of the IP is held by the original creators -- but that doesn't consistently mean the best product. Personally, I stopped watching Star Wars after the first prequel which was by George Lucas - not watching the others or any other Star Wars for over a decade. My favorite edition of the HERO System is 4th edition, after it was taken over by ICE and Rob Bell rather than the original creators (MacDonald and Peterson). IPs can be screwed up no matter whose hands they are in. Handling them well long-term is a rare talent.

As I look over the history, RPGs most often fail with later editions getting more and more bloated with material. They fail to find new players, and so they cater increasingly to the most vocal hard-core fans. This is true regardless of whether the original creator was in charge or not.

It's am extremely tricky balance keeping old fans happy while also seeking new blood which is essential to any long-term IP.

---

Specifically about WotC and wokeness, what struck me is how the recent print products (i.e. actual printed material) bear little resemblance to the online controversies about them. In the limited sampling I've seen, there's virtue signaling over some tiny point and lots of posts pushing back, when 99% of the material is fairly pedestrian D&D (good or bad).

That isn't the wokeness of something like the Barbie movie. This is the wokeness of Dumbledore being gay, or "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" implied gay background character in a Disney movie like Finding Dory.

So no answer then, pawsplay? I'll take your silence as an admission that you haven't actually thought seriously about anything you claim to believe (not that you actually believe anything).

Quote from: Domina on December 04, 2023, 12:24:03 AM
So no answer then, pawsplay? I'll take your silence as an admission that you haven't actually thought seriously about anything you claim to believe (not that you actually believe anything).

Did you have some greater contribution than asking why a human life is significant? If so, I missed it.

Quote from: Domina on December 04, 2023, 12:24:03 AM
So no answer then, pawsplay? I'll take your silence as an admission that you haven't actually thought seriously about anything you claim to believe (not that you actually believe anything).

Thought? Are you implying a trans POC needs to THINK about anything? Nay, good sir, they are merely handed a packet of marching orders and opinions to espouse, they don't THINK about anything.

Quote from: Elfdart on December 03, 2023, 07:52:57 PM
I watched the NFL religiously since 1978. By 2016 I was done and haven't watched more than a few minutes of any pro football game. The same goes for Star Wars, which I started watching in 1977 and stopped watching after Solo. I quit Hasbro D&D more than 20 years ago and never looked back. Fretting over things you used to like out of misplaced loyalty or nostalgia is unhealthy and a waste of time.

Truth, especially because the thing you used to like doesn't actually exist anymore in anything but name.

(That said, to the NFL's credit they effectively got rid of both politics and Colin Kaepernick ... while companies like Hasbro were doubling and tripling down on the stupid.)

Quote from: Brad on December 05, 2023, 09:25:59 AM

Quote from: Domina on December 04, 2023, 12:24:03 AM
So no answer then, pawsplay? I'll take your silence as an admission that you haven't actually thought seriously about anything you claim to believe (not that you actually believe anything).

Thought? Are you implying a trans POC needs to THINK about anything? Nay, good sir, they are merely handed a packet of marching orders and opinions to espouse, they don't THINK about anything.

Are you suggesting that a PoC, by virtue of being so, is incapable of reason? That's definitely a take.

Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2023, 01:24:59 AM
Are you suggesting that a PoC, by virtue of being so, is incapable of reason? That's definitely a take.

Whenever I'm in a social setting and someone starts off an argument by saying something like, "Well, I have a PhD, and this is my opinion..." I know immediately that the next thing out of their mouth is going to be the dumbest shit possible. Start off with some alleged credentials to make an idiotic statement appear to have merit. Same with, "Well I'm a POC. I'm a tranny" Who gives a fuck? Just proves you have nothing valuable to say and are hiding behind labels to avoid criticism.

Funny how you keep talking about being some sort of racial minority based purely on color, while in another thread there's a clown saying race doesn't even exist. Fucking Schrodinger's racism.

Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2023, 04:56:14 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2023, 01:24:59 AM
Are you suggesting that a PoC, by virtue of being so, is incapable of reason? That's definitely a take.

Whenever I'm in a social setting and someone starts off an argument by saying something like, "Well, I have a PhD, and this is my opinion..." I know immediately that the next thing out of their mouth is going to be the dumbest shit possible. Start off with some alleged credentials to make an idiotic statement appear to have merit. Same with, "Well I'm a POC. I'm a tranny" Who gives a fuck? Just proves you have nothing valuable to say and are hiding behind labels to avoid criticism.

Funny how you keep talking about being some sort of racial minority based purely on color, while in another thread there's a clown saying race doesn't even exist. Fucking Schrodinger's racism.

I didn't start an argument. You put forward the thesis that trans POCs are automatons, or dare I say it, slaves. Incapable of thinking for themselves. I'm not trying to prove a point, I'm analyzing your words.

As for race... racism is real, and one of the qualities of it is believing things about race that aren't true. Race is, at best, a demographic category, and often a superficial one at that. Yet the societal attitudes surrounding race affect the destinies of billions of people. For instance, the Age of Sail era belief that PoC lacked reason and needed to be trained, and could be exploited, by white people.

Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2023, 06:41:54 PM

Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2023, 04:56:14 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2023, 01:24:59 AM
Are you suggesting that a PoC, by virtue of being so, is incapable of reason? That's definitely a take.

Whenever I'm in a social setting and someone starts off an argument by saying something like, "Well, I have a PhD, and this is my opinion..." I know immediately that the next thing out of their mouth is going to be the dumbest shit possible. Start off with some alleged credentials to make an idiotic statement appear to have merit. Same with, "Well I'm a POC. I'm a tranny" Who gives a fuck? Just proves you have nothing valuable to say and are hiding behind labels to avoid criticism.

Funny how you keep talking about being some sort of racial minority based purely on color, while in another thread there's a clown saying race doesn't even exist. Fucking Schrodinger's racism.

I didn't start an argument. You put forward the thesis that trans POCs are automatons, or dare I say it, slaves. Incapable of thinking for themselves. I'm not trying to prove a point, I'm analyzing your words.

As for race... racism is real, and one of the qualities of it is believing things about race that aren't true. Race is, at best, a demographic category, and often a superficial one at that. Yet the societal attitudes surrounding race affect the destinies of billions of people. For instance, the Age of Sail era belief that PoC lacked reason and needed to be trained, and could be exploited, by white people.

Obviously the point was that when someone has to announce that they are a trans-non-white, and then make a groupthink statement, is the point.  That person is the one pointing out his or her demographic, and associating the opinion with it, not the observer.

Quote from: pawsplay on December 05, 2023, 12:50:24 AM

Quote from: Domina on December 04, 2023, 12:24:03 AM
So no answer then, pawsplay? I'll take your silence as an admission that you haven't actually thought seriously about anything you claim to believe (not that you actually believe anything).

Did you have some greater contribution than asking why a human life is significant? If so, I missed it.

How about reading what I actually wrote, jackass?

I wonder how much of the wokeness we see in some RPG companies is due to new ESG requirements for preferred business loans which companies usually take out to keep things running, then for a higher ESG score to get better loans they need to do certain things like having diversity and inclusion officers, and then when those leeches get hired they start to influence the company towards the woke.

Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2023, 04:56:14 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2023, 01:24:59 AM
Are you suggesting that a PoC, by virtue of being so, is incapable of reason? That's definitely a take.

Whenever I'm in a social setting and someone starts off an argument by saying something like, "Well, I have a PhD, and this is my opinion..." I know immediately that the next thing out of their mouth is going to be the dumbest shit possible. Start off with some alleged credentials to make an idiotic statement appear to have merit. Same with, "Well I'm a POC. I'm a tranny" Who gives a fuck? Just proves you have nothing valuable to say and are hiding behind labels to avoid criticism.

Funny how you keep talking about being some sort of racial minority based purely on color, while in another thread there's a clown saying race doesn't even exist. Fucking Schrodinger's racism.

Whenever I'm on the internet and someone mentions their PhD anywhere in an argument, I don't believe them unless they're willing to dox themselves.

I'm also not impressed by anyone's PhD, because I have three.

Quote from: Corolinth on December 07, 2023, 11:42:30 AM

Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2023, 04:56:14 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2023, 01:24:59 AM
Are you suggesting that a PoC, by virtue of being so, is incapable of reason? That's definitely a take.

Whenever I'm in a social setting and someone starts off an argument by saying something like, "Well, I have a PhD, and this is my opinion..." I know immediately that the next thing out of their mouth is going to be the dumbest shit possible. Start off with some alleged credentials to make an idiotic statement appear to have merit. Same with, "Well I'm a POC. I'm a tranny" Who gives a fuck? Just proves you have nothing valuable to say and are hiding behind labels to avoid criticism.

Funny how you keep talking about being some sort of racial minority based purely on color, while in another thread there's a clown saying race doesn't even exist. Fucking Schrodinger's racism.

Whenever I'm on the internet and someone mentions their PhD anywhere in an argument, I don't believe them unless they're willing to dox themselves.

I'm also not impressed by anyone's PhD, because I have three.

It reminds me of back in the day when people said their dad worked at nintendo and they had secret codes to capture Mewthree

Quote from: Slambo on December 07, 2023, 12:03:48 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on December 07, 2023, 11:42:30 AM

Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2023, 04:56:14 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2023, 01:24:59 AM
Are you suggesting that a PoC, by virtue of being so, is incapable of reason? That's definitely a take.

Whenever I'm in a social setting and someone starts off an argument by saying something like, "Well, I have a PhD, and this is my opinion..." I know immediately that the next thing out of their mouth is going to be the dumbest shit possible. Start off with some alleged credentials to make an idiotic statement appear to have merit. Same with, "Well I'm a POC. I'm a tranny" Who gives a fuck? Just proves you have nothing valuable to say and are hiding behind labels to avoid criticism.

Funny how you keep talking about being some sort of racial minority based purely on color, while in another thread there's a clown saying race doesn't even exist. Fucking Schrodinger's racism.

Whenever I'm on the internet and someone mentions their PhD anywhere in an argument, I don't believe them unless they're willing to dox themselves.

I'm also not impressed by anyone's PhD, because I have three.

It reminds me of back in the day when people said their dad worked at nintendo and they had secret codes to capture Mewthree

It's probably the same people. Although to be fair, it's not all that farfetched to think many of them actually do have PhDs. After all, a black or brown person with designer pronouns is at the top of the list for university admissions.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 06, 2023, 08:59:05 PM
Obviously the point was that when someone has to announce that they are a trans-non-white, and then make a groupthink statement, is the point.  That person is the one pointing out his or her demographic, and associating the opinion with it, not the observer.

I didn't invite anyone to say PoC can't think for themselves.