Quote from: Captain_Pazuzu on December 23, 2023, 02:45:18 AM
A more fun question is... where do Filipinos fit into all this? (They were a Spanish colony for 300+ years)

Most Filipinos I know see the Spanish as occupiers and accept that part of their history with a shrug and a "that's life" attitude.  In some areas of the country have a lot of Spanish blood, particularly in southern Luzon and Cebu, but other areas had little to no interbreeding with the Spanish.  My wife and her family are almost pure Malay and physically look different from the more mestizo people that are around.  With this in mind, most Filipinos see themselves as Filipino and more broadly as Asian rather than having any real Spanish roots.  They speak Tagalog and English primarily, with local languages used outside of Manila.  A few affluent families see themselves as Spanish rather than Filipino and speak Spanish at home but this is extremely rare.

Every Filipino I've ever heard talk about it sees the Spanish occupation as something bad where as more than half wish the American would come back.  I'm not saying this is a national consensus, I'm just saying that this is what I've been exposed to.

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2023, 06:18:12 AM

Quote from: Captain_Pazuzu on December 23, 2023, 02:45:18 AM
A more fun question is... where do Filipinos fit into all this? (They were a Spanish colony for 300+ years)

Most Filipinos I know see the Spanish as occupiers and accept that part of their history with a shrug and a "that's life" attitude.  In some areas of the country have a lot of Spanish blood, particularly in southern Luzon and Cebu, but other areas had little to no interbreeding with the Spanish.  My wife and her family are almost pure Malay and physically look different from the more mestizo people that are around.  With this in mind, most Filipinos see themselves as Filipino and more broadly as Asian rather than having any real Spanish roots.  They speak Tagalog and English primarily, with local languages used outside of Manila.  A few affluent families see themselves as Spanish rather than Filipino and speak Spanish at home but this is extremely rare.

Every Filipino I've ever heard talk about it sees the Spanish occupation as something bad where as more than half wish the American would come back.  I'm not saying this is a national consensus, I'm just saying that this is what I've been exposed to.

I guess my sociological inquiry revolves around the question of... do they count as Latinos?  Spanish is ubiquitous within Tagalog.  They are Christian (unlike every other East Asian nation). The influence is absolutely there.

I have no idea what the answer is but it's fun to think about.

If you're interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Boxlz1HA0U

Quote from: Captain_Pazuzu on December 23, 2023, 10:25:04 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2023, 06:18:12 AM

Quote from: Captain_Pazuzu on December 23, 2023, 02:45:18 AM
A more fun question is... where do Filipinos fit into all this? (They were a Spanish colony for 300+ years)

Most Filipinos I know see the Spanish as occupiers and accept that part of their history with a shrug and a "that's life" attitude.  In some areas of the country have a lot of Spanish blood, particularly in southern Luzon and Cebu, but other areas had little to no interbreeding with the Spanish.  My wife and her family are almost pure Malay and physically look different from the more mestizo people that are around.  With this in mind, most Filipinos see themselves as Filipino and more broadly as Asian rather than having any real Spanish roots.  They speak Tagalog and English primarily, with local languages used outside of Manila.  A few affluent families see themselves as Spanish rather than Filipino and speak Spanish at home but this is extremely rare.

Every Filipino I've ever heard talk about it sees the Spanish occupation as something bad where as more than half wish the American would come back.  I'm not saying this is a national consensus, I'm just saying that this is what I've been exposed to.

I guess my sociological inquiry revolves around the question of... do they count as Latinos?  Spanish is ubiquitous within Tagalog.  They are Christian (unlike every other East Asian nation). The influence is absolutely there.

I have no idea what the answer is but it's fun to think about.

If you're interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Boxlz1HA0U

They don't see themselves as Latino, in my experience.

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2023, 11:39:49 AM

Quote from: Captain_Pazuzu on December 23, 2023, 10:25:04 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2023, 06:18:12 AM

Quote from: Captain_Pazuzu on December 23, 2023, 02:45:18 AM
A more fun question is... where do Filipinos fit into all this? (They were a Spanish colony for 300+ years)

Most Filipinos I know see the Spanish as occupiers and accept that part of their history with a shrug and a "that's life" attitude.  In some areas of the country have a lot of Spanish blood, particularly in southern Luzon and Cebu, but other areas had little to no interbreeding with the Spanish.  My wife and her family are almost pure Malay and physically look different from the more mestizo people that are around.  With this in mind, most Filipinos see themselves as Filipino and more broadly as Asian rather than having any real Spanish roots.  They speak Tagalog and English primarily, with local languages used outside of Manila.  A few affluent families see themselves as Spanish rather than Filipino and speak Spanish at home but this is extremely rare.

Every Filipino I've ever heard talk about it sees the Spanish occupation as something bad where as more than half wish the American would come back.  I'm not saying this is a national consensus, I'm just saying that this is what I've been exposed to.

I guess my sociological inquiry revolves around the question of... do they count as Latinos?  Spanish is ubiquitous within Tagalog.  They are Christian (unlike every other East Asian nation). The influence is absolutely there.

I have no idea what the answer is but it's fun to think about.

If you're interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Boxlz1HA0U

They don't see themselves as Latino, in my experience.

IIRC Tenbones is Filipino, you could ask him but...

AFAIK Latino is a narrow term only applied to those cultures created by Spain/Portugal in what would become LatinAmerica. I speak of cultures because IMO a Japanese, descendant of Japanese but either born or raised in México is more Latino than the people who are of Mexican descent but only know American culture.

This is all a fair bit more complex than I would have originally assumed. Even given that I was assuming there would be complexity. Just goes to show, I guess.

Hopefully not jumping topics too much, but are there significant differences in Woke positioning or influence and the like in say Latin America's TTRPG market as compared to the USA's? I'd guess in advance that there would be significant international differences more broadly, but I guess might as well ask those who might know. (Also Pundit is in Uruguay, right? Unlikely he'll see this part of the thread, but he might have some takes on this industry question too, I guess.)

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 23, 2023, 12:13:14 PM
IIRC Tenbones is Filipino, you could ask him but...

My wife is Filipina (not Fil-Am, right from the islands) and she thought the idea of being Latino was funny.  Then I asked her what did she think she was and she asked me if I was feeling all right.

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 23, 2023, 12:31:26 PM
This is all a fair bit more complex than I would have originally assumed. Even given that I was assuming there would be complexity. Just goes to show, I guess.

Hopefully not jumping topics too much, but are there significant differences in Woke positioning or influence and the like in say Latin America's TTRPG market as compared to the USA's? I'd guess in advance that there would be significant international differences more broadly, but I guess might as well ask those who might know. (Also Pundit is in Uruguay, right? Unlikely he'll see this part of the thread, but he might have some takes on this industry question too, I guess.)

Brazil's is overwhelmingly woke, as in all the big players are.

In México the scene is much smaller, mainly because there's zero local TTRPG publishers TIKO and because Mexicans tend to be very proud of their ignorance and don't read, speak, understand anything but Spanish and most very poorly at that.

No idea how are things in the rest of the continent.

I don't know why, but I had always assumed Mexico's inhabitants tended to be multilingual or at least better about that than Joe Sixpack of USA inhabitance. I guess that they wouldn't necessarily be thus makes sense though, since Mexico  may be less a nation of language-differentiated immigrants? I may have just made the (in retrospect somewhat odd) assumption that English was common among random members of the populous, for no good reason, outside the borders of places where that's the primary language.

Are most Portuguese language games from Brazil, I wonder? Where are the majority of spanish language games or translations from? The USA? (Wouldn't have guessed that, if so.)

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 23, 2023, 02:28:37 PM
I don't know why, but I had always assumed Mexico's inhabitants tended to be multilingual or at least better about that than Joe Sixpack of USA inhabitance. I guess that they wouldn't necessarily be thus makes sense though, since Mexico  may be less a nation of language-differentiated immigrants? I may have just made the (in retrospect somewhat odd) assumption that English was common among random members of the populous, for no good reason, outside the borders of places where that's the primary language.

Are most Portuguese language games from Brazil, I wonder? Where are the majority of spanish language games or translations from? The USA? (Wouldn't have guessed that, if so.)

Most Spanish written RPGs are from Spain.

That makes sense, in retrospect. Are translations also Spain? Or varying more based on the original country or locality?

Edit: Actually, dunno if this even matters. In the US relatively few TTRPG games of major success are translated from the languages of other areas. I can think of a few Japanese ones and the like, but yeah... are translated games a big thing, even? I had heard often when TTRPGs are successful elsewhere it's the result of a locality making it their own, but I don't know how true that is.

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 23, 2023, 02:36:59 PM
That makes sense, in retrospect. Are translations also Spain? Or varying more based on the original country or locality?

Edit: Actually, dunno if this even matters. In the US relatively few TTRPG games of major success are translated from the languages of other areas. I can think of a few Japanese ones and the like, but yeah... are translated games a big thing, even? I had heard often when TTRPGs are successful elsewhere it's the result of a locality making it their own, but I don't know how true that is.

Everything from Free League is originally in Swedish though some of their games are developed simultaneously in English.  The Dark Eye is a German game that's had pretty good success in the US.  Brancalonia is an Italian product that's going bananas right now.  Dragon Bane is a recent translation and import as well.  Finally, every Shadowrun player I know is using the German version and translating it into English because Catalyst Labs sucks.

Huh. Maybe I'm just not in a social group that plays a lot of them or hears about them a lot. Might have been me assuming my individual experience/sampling was more common than it was in practice.

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 23, 2023, 03:27:44 PM
Huh. Maybe I'm just not in a social group that plays a lot of them or hears about them a lot. Might have been me assuming my individual experience/sampling was more common than it was in practice.

It may be more of a thing where you've come across games and not known they were translations and imports.  Take a look at Free League and their massive list of games.  Most people I know think they were originally in English.  (I swear their translation team is as good as their art team.)

Good catch. Even I'm not living under a rock to the point where the one ring and forbidden lands aren't names I know. 

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 23, 2023, 02:28:37 PM
I don't know why, but I had always assumed Mexico's inhabitants tended to be multilingual or at least better about that than Joe Sixpack of USA inhabitance. I guess that they wouldn't necessarily be thus makes sense though, since Mexico  may be less a nation of language-differentiated immigrants? I may have just made the (in retrospect somewhat odd) assumption that English was common among random members of the populous, for no good reason, outside the borders of places where that's the primary language.

I grew up in the Central Valley in California.  There are a lot of Mexicans there.  I mean Mexicans not Americans whose ancestors immigrated from Mexico generations ago.  A large majority of them only speak Spanish.  They don't speak any English and don't care to learn.  They don't need to because there are whole neighborhoods where everything is in Spanish.  It's easy to tell when you are in a neighborhood like that because the signage is all in Spanish.  You can live your whole life in the Central Valley without ever learning a word of English and there are a lot of people who do just that.  There are far more white Americans who speak Spanish than Mexicans who bother learning English.