A few years ago I decided to try and reach a bunch of the Appendix N stuff I had never read before, just for fun & edification.  I found most of it overrated and disappointing.  But it's all a matter of taste.  Tolkien is my all-time favorite author.  I like Lovecraft a lot too.  Can't stand Leiber.  CAS is decent, better than Vance, who is slightly better than Saberhagen.  Poul Anderson is like a ridiculous Fast & Furious movie in novel form.  Moorcock?  Elric is whiny and annoying, like Thomas Covenant with a sword.  Conan is one of my favorite fictional characters but the stories, Howard or otherwise, vary widely in quality.

David Gemmel?  Mediocre.  Joe Abercrombie?  Worse than mediocre.  GRRM?  Too verbose; can't finish a story.  I liked David Eddings back in the day but haven't re-read the stuff.  Robert Jordan is a hack.  Haven't read Brandon Sanderson because I've no interest in reading multiple books approaching 1000 pages to finish a series.  Terry Brooks is a knock-off retroclone of Tolkien, especially the first Shannara trilogy.  I've read lots of other stuff and too much D&D and Warhammer fiction, most of which is middling at best, but I'll stop here.

But all this being said, I'm still glad to have at least sampled all these writers.  They're cool for getting inspiration and seeing what inspired D&D.

And if you're really into learning the history of Appendix N and its authors, the Goodman Games website includes regular features on the books and authors of Appendix N.

I don't really disagree with any of the recommendations above from a "D&D inspiration" stand-point.

However, some of these writers were still going strong after Appendix N was first published.  For my money, here are some great stories that aren't inspiration for D&D but could have been had the timing been different:

Poul Anderson: "The King of Ys" series, which you can find all in one book now.

Jack Vance:  The "Lyonesse" trilogy, starting with Suldren's Garden.

Roger Zelazny:  "A Night in the Lonesome October".

There are echoes of their more famous things in those respective books, but the stories are well crafted, with a maturity of writing ability that wasn't always there earlier. 

Quote from: SHARK on April 22, 2023, 04:49:20 PM
Greetings!

All of the books written by the late author, David Gemmel, are absolute gold.

I also recommend the KANE series, by author Karl Edward Wagner. Absolutely genius writing, evocative, and atmospheric. Characterizations are also fun. Probably the best homage to Robert E. Howard ever written. Wagner's KANE series of books are clearly inspired by Conan, though with a bit more magic and sorcery.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Do you know anywhere that the Kane stories can be gotten in hard copy for a reasonable price these days? I've been trying to find them for a couple years now, and the prices are absurd. $300 for the collected stories sometimes.

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 22, 2023, 11:06:31 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 22, 2023, 04:49:20 PM
Greetings!

All of the books written by the late author, David Gemmel, are absolute gold.

I also recommend the KANE series, by author Karl Edward Wagner. Absolutely genius writing, evocative, and atmospheric. Characterizations are also fun. Probably the best homage to Robert E. Howard ever written. Wagner's KANE series of books are clearly inspired by Conan, though with a bit more magic and sorcery.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Do you know anywhere that the Kane stories can be gotten in hard copy for a reasonable price these days? I've been trying to find them for a couple years now, and the prices are absurd. $300 for the collected stories sometimes.

Greetings!

Wow, my friend! I had not realized that the KANE books were so difficult to get!

I also prefer hardbacks, but alas, my collection are all original paperbacks from...back in the 1980's. *Laughing*

Fortunately, I have kept my books all in mint-condition. I think I must have paid $4.99 for them each.

As crazy as the prices are, I would be tempted to just go for it and get a hardcover collection of Wagner's KANE stories. I know it seems very pricey--but, as a fan of Sword & Sorcery and Horror, I still place Wagner at a place of honour in my memories, even after...35 or more years. His gripping style, mixing military, savage combat, scheming and politics, as well as horror, science-fiction, and ancient mythology and history--it is all very unique and awesome.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 22, 2023, 04:49:20 PM
Greetings!

All of the books written by the late author, David Gemmel, are absolute gold.

I also recommend the KANE series, by author Karl Edward Wagner. Absolutely genius writing, evocative, and atmospheric. Characterizations are also fun. Probably the best homage to Robert E. Howard ever written. Wagner's KANE series of books are clearly inspired by Conan, though with a bit more magic and sorcery.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I can't recommend the Kane books enough, if you can find them. Wagner provides some really amazing big picture 'wars' that you can drop character into the middle of.

Robert E Howards Conan stories provide module level adventures that are fairly easy to strip for content.

I'd also toss Keith Taylor's Bard series into the  mix if you can find them. They are more historical than the other two but really give you a nice since of a magical world.

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 22, 2023, 11:06:31 PM
Do you know anywhere that the Kane stories can be gotten in hard copy for a reasonable price these days? I've been trying to find them for a couple years now, and the prices are absurd. $300 for the collected stories sometimes.

No, but one of Wagner's Horror books showed up as an Audio Novel on Audible.com a few months ago, I have high hopes they intend to release more of his work.

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 22, 2023, 11:06:31 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 22, 2023, 04:49:20 PM
Greetings!

All of the books written by the late author, David Gemmel, are absolute gold.

I also recommend the KANE series, by author Karl Edward Wagner. Absolutely genius writing, evocative, and atmospheric. Characterizations are also fun. Probably the best homage to Robert E. Howard ever written. Wagner's KANE series of books are clearly inspired by Conan, though with a bit more magic and sorcery.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Do you know anywhere that the Kane stories can be gotten in hard copy for a reasonable price these days? I've been trying to find them for a couple years now, and the prices are absurd. $300 for the collected stories sometimes.

Nevermind...wrong tales.

Quote from: Persimmon on April 22, 2023, 08:39:31 PM
A few years ago I decided to try and reach a bunch of the Appendix N stuff I had never read before, just for fun & edification.  I found most of it overrated and disappointing.  But it's all a matter of taste.  Tolkien is my all-time favorite author.  I like Lovecraft a lot too.  Can't stand Leiber.  CAS is decent, better than Vance, who is slightly better than Saberhagen.  Poul Anderson is like a ridiculous Fast & Furious movie in novel form.  Moorcock?  Elric is whiny and annoying, like Thomas Covenant with a sword.  Conan is one of my favorite fictional characters but the stories, Howard or otherwise, vary widely in quality.

David Gemmel?  Mediocre.  Joe Abercrombie?  Worse than mediocre.  GRRM?  Too verbose; can't finish a story.  I liked David Eddings back in the day but haven't re-read the stuff.  Robert Jordan is a hack.  Haven't read Brandon Sanderson because I've no interest in reading multiple books approaching 1000 pages to finish a series.  Terry Brooks is a knock-off retroclone of Tolkien, especially the first Shannara trilogy.  I've read lots of other stuff and too much D&D and Warhammer fiction, most of which is middling at best, but I'll stop here.

But all this being said, I'm still glad to have at least sampled all these writers.  They're cool for getting inspiration and seeing what inspired D&D.

And if you're really into learning the history of Appendix N and its authors, the Goodman Games website includes regular features on the books and authors of Appendix N.

I'm with you. Most of Appendix N is garbage along the lines of the fiction Gygax wrote. Some good ideas, but poor writing outside of CAS, Howard, Lovecraft, Tolkien, Moorcock (his Corum books are easily his best), Zelazny, and maybe a couple more. I usually skip threads about the appendix N writers due to me seeing most of them as junk - same with alignment arguments.

I tried one Sanderson book several years back and I gave up in under 20 pages. Nothing in it interested me and I found the writing to be abysmal.

Vance's best stuff, by far, is his Demon Princes novels. Dying Earth is boring. I can't think of any protagonist from it that is even likable.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 23, 2023, 11:24:31 AM

Quote from: Persimmon on April 22, 2023, 08:39:31 PM
A few years ago I decided to try and reach a bunch of the Appendix N stuff I had never read before, just for fun & edification.  I found most of it overrated and disappointing.  But it's all a matter of taste.  Tolkien is my all-time favorite author.  I like Lovecraft a lot too.  Can't stand Leiber.  CAS is decent, better than Vance, who is slightly better than Saberhagen.  Poul Anderson is like a ridiculous Fast & Furious movie in novel form.  Moorcock?  Elric is whiny and annoying, like Thomas Covenant with a sword.  Conan is one of my favorite fictional characters but the stories, Howard or otherwise, vary widely in quality.

David Gemmel?  Mediocre.  Joe Abercrombie?  Worse than mediocre.  GRRM?  Too verbose; can't finish a story.  I liked David Eddings back in the day but haven't re-read the stuff.  Robert Jordan is a hack.  Haven't read Brandon Sanderson because I've no interest in reading multiple books approaching 1000 pages to finish a series.  Terry Brooks is a knock-off retroclone of Tolkien, especially the first Shannara trilogy.  I've read lots of other stuff and too much D&D and Warhammer fiction, most of which is middling at best, but I'll stop here.

But all this being said, I'm still glad to have at least sampled all these writers.  They're cool for getting inspiration and seeing what inspired D&D.

And if you're really into learning the history of Appendix N and its authors, the Goodman Games website includes regular features on the books and authors of Appendix N.

I'm with you. Most of Appendix N is garbage along the lines of the fiction Gygax wrote. Some good ideas, but poor writing outside of CAS, Howard, Lovecraft, Tolkien, Moorcock (his Corum books are easily his best), Zelazny, and maybe a couple more. I usually skip threads about the appendix N writers due to me seeing most of them as junk - same with alignment arguments.

I tried one Sanderson book several years back and I gave up in under 20 pages. Nothing in it interested me and I found the writing to be abysmal.

Vance's best stuff, by far, is his Demon Princes novels. Dying Earth is boring. I can't think of any protagonist from it that is even likable.

Greetings!

Interesting! I have read that Brandon Sanderson seems to be viewed as an absolute genius. LEGIONS of fans that support and admire him.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 23, 2023, 03:28:29 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 23, 2023, 11:24:31 AM

Quote from: Persimmon on April 22, 2023, 08:39:31 PM
A few years ago I decided to try and reach a bunch of the Appendix N stuff I had never read before, just for fun & edification.  I found most of it overrated and disappointing.  But it's all a matter of taste.  Tolkien is my all-time favorite author.  I like Lovecraft a lot too.  Can't stand Leiber.  CAS is decent, better than Vance, who is slightly better than Saberhagen.  Poul Anderson is like a ridiculous Fast & Furious movie in novel form.  Moorcock?  Elric is whiny and annoying, like Thomas Covenant with a sword.  Conan is one of my favorite fictional characters but the stories, Howard or otherwise, vary widely in quality.

David Gemmel?  Mediocre.  Joe Abercrombie?  Worse than mediocre.  GRRM?  Too verbose; can't finish a story.  I liked David Eddings back in the day but haven't re-read the stuff.  Robert Jordan is a hack.  Haven't read Brandon Sanderson because I've no interest in reading multiple books approaching 1000 pages to finish a series.  Terry Brooks is a knock-off retroclone of Tolkien, especially the first Shannara trilogy.  I've read lots of other stuff and too much D&D and Warhammer fiction, most of which is middling at best, but I'll stop here.

But all this being said, I'm still glad to have at least sampled all these writers.  They're cool for getting inspiration and seeing what inspired D&D.

And if you're really into learning the history of Appendix N and its authors, the Goodman Games website includes regular features on the books and authors of Appendix N.

I'm with you. Most of Appendix N is garbage along the lines of the fiction Gygax wrote. Some good ideas, but poor writing outside of CAS, Howard, Lovecraft, Tolkien, Moorcock (his Corum books are easily his best), Zelazny, and maybe a couple more. I usually skip threads about the appendix N writers due to me seeing most of them as junk - same with alignment arguments.

I tried one Sanderson book several years back and I gave up in under 20 pages. Nothing in it interested me and I found the writing to be abysmal.

Vance's best stuff, by far, is his Demon Princes novels. Dying Earth is boring. I can't think of any protagonist from it that is even likable.

Greetings!

Interesting! I have read that Brandon Sanderson seems to be viewed as an absolute genius. LEGIONS of fans that support and admire him.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Legions of fans drink Miller Lite and like McDonalds.  That hardly makes them good.  So if you like generic, super-sized fantasy, by all means enjoy your Brandon Sanderson.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 23, 2023, 11:24:31 AM
Vance's best stuff, by far, is his Demon Princes novels. Dying Earth is boring. I can't think of any protagonist from it that is even likable.

Yeah, by the 'likable protagonist' standard, Dying Earth is an abysmal failure. 

Quote from: S'mon on April 23, 2023, 04:39:59 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 23, 2023, 11:24:31 AM
Vance's best stuff, by far, is his Demon Princes novels. Dying Earth is boring. I can't think of any protagonist from it that is even likable.

Yeah, by the 'likable protagonist' standard, Dying Earth is an abysmal failure. 

Depends on how you measure it.  Given what he does, Cugel is remarkably likable.  Compare him to, say, the same character written by Stephen King.

Quote from: Persimmon on April 23, 2023, 04:24:52 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 23, 2023, 03:28:29 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 23, 2023, 11:24:31 AM

Quote from: Persimmon on April 22, 2023, 08:39:31 PM
A few years ago I decided to try and reach a bunch of the Appendix N stuff I had never read before, just for fun & edification.  I found most of it overrated and disappointing.  But it's all a matter of taste.  Tolkien is my all-time favorite author.  I like Lovecraft a lot too.  Can't stand Leiber.  CAS is decent, better than Vance, who is slightly better than Saberhagen.  Poul Anderson is like a ridiculous Fast & Furious movie in novel form.  Moorcock?  Elric is whiny and annoying, like Thomas Covenant with a sword.  Conan is one of my favorite fictional characters but the stories, Howard or otherwise, vary widely in quality.

David Gemmel?  Mediocre.  Joe Abercrombie?  Worse than mediocre.  GRRM?  Too verbose; can't finish a story.  I liked David Eddings back in the day but haven't re-read the stuff.  Robert Jordan is a hack.  Haven't read Brandon Sanderson because I've no interest in reading multiple books approaching 1000 pages to finish a series.  Terry Brooks is a knock-off retroclone of Tolkien, especially the first Shannara trilogy.  I've read lots of other stuff and too much D&D and Warhammer fiction, most of which is middling at best, but I'll stop here.

But all this being said, I'm still glad to have at least sampled all these writers.  They're cool for getting inspiration and seeing what inspired D&D.

And if you're really into learning the history of Appendix N and its authors, the Goodman Games website includes regular features on the books and authors of Appendix N.

I'm with you. Most of Appendix N is garbage along the lines of the fiction Gygax wrote. Some good ideas, but poor writing outside of CAS, Howard, Lovecraft, Tolkien, Moorcock (his Corum books are easily his best), Zelazny, and maybe a couple more. I usually skip threads about the appendix N writers due to me seeing most of them as junk - same with alignment arguments.

I tried one Sanderson book several years back and I gave up in under 20 pages. Nothing in it interested me and I found the writing to be abysmal.

Vance's best stuff, by far, is his Demon Princes novels. Dying Earth is boring. I can't think of any protagonist from it that is even likable.

Greetings!

Interesting! I have read that Brandon Sanderson seems to be viewed as an absolute genius. LEGIONS of fans that support and admire him.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Legions of fans drink Miller Lite and like McDonalds.  That hardly makes them good.  So if you like generic, super-sized fantasy, by all means enjoy your Brandon Sanderson.

*Laughing* So true, huh, my friend? Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of Miller Lite or McDonalds. Generic, super-sized fantasy! *Laughing* I don't know much about Brandon Sanderson. I imagine though there are many of the more recent authors that I am clueless about.

Your commentary about many of the Appendix N authors being mediocre--that kind of reminded me, I remember reading Moorcock as an adolescent, and I then thought that Moorcock was awesome and brilliant!

However, as an adult, coming back to Moorcock many years later, I was relatively unimpressed.

In contrast, I have to say, Tolkien has maintained the stronghold of brilliance, wondrous joy, and inspiration. I first read The Hobbit, when I was in the 5th Grade, and soon followed by reading the Lord of the Rings, and then, the Silmarillion. In all the years since, Tolkien has endured as an inspiration!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 23, 2023, 05:55:37 PM
Depends on how you measure it.  Given what he does, Cugel is remarkably likable.  Compare him to, say, the same character written by Stephen King.

Cugel is a PC in a D&D campaign. His likeability is in laughing at his total ineptitude and failure.

There are a few dimensions to consider here. For example, I find Edgar Allan Poe a much better writer then Howard Phillips Lovecraft, but HPL it's more influential to D&D (Gygax) and probably has more things you can use in your games.

Poul Anderson is another example. I find "the broken sword" much better than "three hearts and three Lions", but 3H3L has more D&D stuff.

Tolkien is great at both things.

And then there are things like Eddings that managed to be badly written and also contain no monsters, spells, items, or situations to inspire your D&D games.