Hello!

Let me tell you that a grew up in the 90s, never played any RPG until recently. Yet I grew up with Conan, Beastmaster, Batman, Willow, Lord of the Ring, Legend, Masters of the Universe, Highlander, John Carter, The Chronicles of Riddick, Tarzan. I'm not a religious person, but Samson was other character I like, and some other I don't remember right now. I never related it to Swords and Sorcery/Planet until now, and everything was a movie not a book  except for a few, which I read.

As you can tell, it's a topic I like (Actually I have a Ferret like Beastmaster, I was very influenced by that as a child.). Although I liked the movie Lord of the Ring, I have always liked the Sword and Sorcery/Planet style more (Now that I can identify it).

As a beginner in the RPG world, I feel very exhausted with some many books and recommendations. I'm aware of Appendix N from Gygax and some other from Holmes and Moldvay. I don't remember if Mentzer have a similar section.

When I look for recommendation one is Howard "Conan" and when I look for Conan there are thousands of books and I don't know which is which. Other authors L. Sprague de Camp, Lin Carter, Fritz Leiber tons of books each.

My main question is:

1) If I want to be up to speed with books that Gary used. What Omnibus or Collections of different authors can I read? Give a short list please.

if you have time to reply:

2) What new authors/books of Sword and Sorcery/Planet you recommend? (I tried to search for new books, what I found was weird books garbage woke/feminist)

3) I'm thinking to buy and read this book "Appendix N: The Eldritch Roots of Dungeons and Dragons Paperback by Peter Bebergal". Your thoughts?


Thank you all for the help!

I've read and written about Appendix N more or less extensively. I often review books in my blog. What I'll share below is my personal taste. All abbreviations of famous fantasy authors.

Appendix N: Start with REH, JRRT, HPL. Vance might be the most "gygaxian", Leieber is very D&Dish, I also like Andre Norton, and The Broken Sword is superb (although 3h3L is more D&Dish). Lord Dunsany is amazing too.

Non-appendix N: the greatest omission is CAS; it is a must read. I also like LeGuin and Borges (not exactly D&Dish). These three are recommended in Moldvay.

Modern stuff: I really like GRRM. I'm reading David Gemmel - it is awesome. Witcher is... good, not great. Same for Glen Cook - but Gygax liked it. I disliked the first Abecrombie and found Eddings exceptionally boring.

Sword and Sorcery: any Conan, Lieber (Fafhrd and grey mouser) or CAS collection will do. Here are some short stories I liked and you can probably find online: Red Nails, The Vaults of Yoh-Vombis, Lean Times in Lankhmar, The Call of Cthulhu, Nyarlathotep, The City of the Singing Flame, The Hoard of the Gibbelins.

As Obi-Wan Kenobi says, "You've taken your first step into a wider world." I can talk about classic fantasy lit for days, but I'll try to keep it succinct.

For Conan, I personally have only read the Howard stories. Others might be able to give you recommendations for the other authors, but I'm a bit of a purist. More importantly, don't restrict your Howard reading to just Conan. For my money, his Solomon Kane stories represent his finest work, and the Kull of Atlantis and Bran Mak Morn series are worthwhile as well. One thing to watch out with Howard is that if you buy older printings of the Conan stories, they're often versions that have been re-written or edited by other authors (particularly L. Sprague De Camp). For the real McCoy, I recommend the recent collections published by Del Rey, which have all of the original Howard stories unabridged in a nice package.

https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Conan-Cimmerian-Original-Adventures/dp/0345461517/ref=pd_bxgy_sccl_2/137-5441181-7594221?pd_rd_w=VfnOI&content-id=amzn1.sym.26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_p=26a5c67f-1a30-486b-bb90-b523ad38d5a0&pf_rd_r=2KYC1Y8FS2AV3CEENR2R&pd_rd_wg=AwTjA&pd_rd_r=94ee725a-3994-4ea5-a9fc-a017b8458056&pd_rd_i=0345461517&psc=1

After Howard, I recommend you move on to Fritz Leiber, particularly his "Swords" series AKA Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. Leiber is not only my favorite S&S author, but also easily one of the most influential on D&D. He invented the concept of the Thieves guild, as well as the thief/rogue archetype and a million other RPG standbys. The first book is called "Swords and Deviltry", but each book in the series is a collection of short stories, which can be read out of order. If you were only to read one thing by him, I'd recommend "Swords of Lankhmar", which is the one full-length novel in the series, but if you want to start with a short story, I would recommend "Thieves' House" or "The Lords of Quarmall"

Next most important is probably Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" Series, which begins with "The Dying Earth", but you might rather start with "The Eyes of the Overworld", which introduces his thief-hero Cugel the Clever. Vance is who people are talking about when they say D&D has "Vancian magic".

However, before Vance, I personally would recommend either  Poul Anderson or Michael Moorcock.

Anderson's most famous fantasy novel is "Three Hearts and Three Lions", from which D&D derives the Paladin class and probably its alignment system. If you're only going to read one, though, I recommend "The Broken Sword", which is IMO his finest work, and will change the way you think about elves and trolls forever. If you want sci fi, Anderson's "Flandry of Terra" series, which starts with "Ensign Flandry" is tons of fun, too. Basically James Bond in space.

Michael Moorcock is most famous for his "Elric" series. The first story published was "The Dreaming City", but the first in narrative order is "Elric of Melnibone". My personal pick for the best story in the series is "The Fortress of the Pearl". Moorcock's "Hawkmoon" series is also extremely good, and trades the traditional medieval fantasy aesthetic in for a science-fantasy one. Also, if you want a break from prose fiction, Titan Comics did a recent run of Elric graphic novels which are worthwhile.

https://www.amazon.com/Michael-Moorcocks-Elric-1-4-Boxed/dp/178773854X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1Z2RAHY34YIYO&keywords=elric+comic&qid=1682191636&s=books&sprefix=elric+comic%2Cstripbooks%2C89&sr=1-1

There's also Clark Ashton Smith, who's a pretty important figure in fantasy short stories. There's a good series of collections of his short stories from Night Shade Books, but if you want one to start with, I'd recommend the "Colossus of Ylourgne" or "The Black Abbot of Puthuum".

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1597808369/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you want to get into sword and planet, there's no better place to start than with the original, Edgar Rice Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars". The film adaptation "John Carter" from 2012 isn't bad either. I also recommend the Gor series, by John Norman, which starts with "A Tarnsman of Gor".

As far as the Appendix N book goes, I don't own it, but I've looked at the story selection. It's a pretty good primer. Personally I'm deep enough into it that I have a lot of the stories in other collections, but it's by no means a bad place to start.

EDIT: I left HP Lovecraft out originally, because he is only tangentially a fantasy author. That's not to say he isn't hugely important in the history of speculative fiction as a whole, though. For my money, his magnum opus is "At the Mountains of Madness", but "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" is not far behind, and is much more of a fantasy novel.

When I first started playing AD&D after moving away from BECMI my total experience with the swords and sorcery and pulp genres was the Conan movies and comics. I had read everything from Tolkien and some of those Forgotten Realms novels, lots of scifi, but no real S&S stuff whatsoever. So much like you, I decided to actually go through the Appendix N stuff and read whatever I could. I was a huge Zelazny fan and had already read those books, as well as HP Lovecraft and lots of Poul Anderson scifi (my dad had a subscription to Analog, actually, so I read those whenever he got a new one). Anyway, I ended up reading everything listed and here's what I recommend.

REH Conan. I get that some people like the other author's take on them, but I do not. Howard has such a unique style that it's impossible to replicate. I actually went to Howard Days a few years back in Cross Plains and saw the museum and stuff, dude was a nutjob but a great writer. There's a Conan anthology you can get with all his stuff, read that and ignore anything else. Also read Kull while you're at it.

Fritz Leiber is pretty good. I am not a huge fan of The Grey Mouser but you can 100% tell Gygax got a ton of inspiration from these stories. I'd say just pick one anthology like Swords Against Death (someone else might have a better recommendation) and use that as a factor in deciding if you want to read more.

Moorcock, read Stormbringer and the other Elric stuff. You do not need to read all the eternal champion stuff beyond these novels unless you want to, but they really do a good job of understanding how alignment works in the game.

HP Lovecraft, read all of it. The stories aren't very long, so you can burn through everything rather quickly. Dude has no equal when it comes to weird and creepy evocative writing.

Zelazny is great, and the Amber series is pretty much worth reading regardless of its relevance to D&D. Jack of Shadows and Lord of Light are pretty good, too, so I'd read them if you want something fun and out of the ordinary.

Vance...pretty much defines how magic works in D&D. If you read only one thing on the list, it should be this. There's a Dying Earth anthology, read it all. Cugel is the last half, and that shit made me laugh excessively. Dude is the prototypical character in a roleplaying game.

Tolkien, obviously. It's sort of like required, I'd think, even if it's not S&S. Same with Lord Dunsany. These are your basic math classes; you won't be able to do calculus (play S&S) until you understand these guys.

Anderson, you must read the three books in the appendix. Three Hearts and Three Lions is where Gygax got trolls and paladins and swanmays and a bunch of other stuff, The High Crusade is great because it's EXACTLY how I'd envision an alien landing taking place, and The Broken Sword is just badass. It's his version of creating a new myth using old ones, and fantastic for understanding how the fae are supposed to operate in D&D (including elves).

If you're like, fuck that, I am not reading 20k pages, then at the absolute minimum I'd do Dying Earth and a couple Leiber stories, but that's really pushing it.


RE: new authors, I have no idea. I pretty much only read technical documentation anymore or crap like the Handbook of Parapsychology. Fiction is not my bag, honestly. Contrast with my wife who reads four or five novels a week...

RE: that book, I am unfamiliar with it, but here is the synopsis.

Drawing upon the original list of "inspirational reading" provided by Gary Gygax in the first Dungeon Master's Guide, published in 1979, as well as related periodicals that helped to define the modern role-playing game, Appendix N offers a collection of short fiction and resonant fragments that reveal the literary influences that shaped Dungeons & Dragons, the world's most popular RPG. The stories in Appendix N contextualize the ambitious lyrical excursions that helped set the adventurous tone and dank, dungeon-crawling atmospheres of fantasy roleplay as we know it today.


Hmmm...sounds like some sort of literary analysis? I honestly wouldn't bother, and I mean it. YOU need to read those novels and then YOU can pick out the parts in D&D and decide how they work. If you want some actual books like this, then the Jon Peterson stuff is worth reading, like Playing at the World. Tons and tons of interesting stuff. I know I'll get raked over the coals for this, but Shared Fantasy by Gary Alan Fine...I love that book. I was told it was pure horseshit and an egregious display of garbage academia, but I think it's awesome.

EDIT: The wizard above me said a lot of the same stuff...so maybe I'm on the right track.

As they said, read Conan by Howard only. I'd also recommend his Kull stories.

I think people skip ERB as a major influence. I'd start with this: https://www.amazon.com/Mars-Trilogy-Princess-Gods-Warlord/dp/1442423870/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=john+carter+book&qid=1682192763&sprefix=John+Carter%2Caps%2C106&sr=8-4

It really captures everything about the series you need for D&D. If you like it you can read the rest.

Another one people don't discuss much is Sign of the Labrys by Margaret St. Clair, but the mega-dungeon idea is probably best illuminated in it: https://www.amazon.com/Sign-Labrys-Dover-Doomsday-Classics-ebook/dp/B01M5DUJ2M/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=sign+of+the+labrys&qid=1682192844&sprefix=sign+of+the+l%2Caps%2C105&sr=8-1

Her other book in Appendix N, The Shadow People, may have been a major source for the Drow. I can't prove it, but that's my feeling. You're stuck searching used book sellers for it.

A. A. Merritt is another good one with public domain versions, but I'd recommend skipping The Moon Pool. I found it slow moving compared to Dwellers in the Mirage.

For Moorcock I'd recommend either starting with the Hawkmoon books or, if you have to start with Elric, use this version: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074CDRNJD?binding=paperback&searchxofy=true&ref_=dbs_s_aps_series_rwt_tpbk&qid=1682193080&sr=8-9
I see the first book has gotten very expensive, but they are in order of publication which I think is much better than in order chronologically. If they are too rich then look at the ToC of the first of those and read those first, in that order, for any source you choose.

Avoid the silver covered 70/80 mass market paper. They do some editing to make a long narrative that I was not a fan of.

For "new" authors my big recommendation is the late David Gemmell.  His novel Legend was first published in the US as Against the Horde by Gygax's post TSR company Infinite Realities. I'd really recommend everything he wrote for S&S vibe.

I'd also recommend a new kinda monthly (more like every two months), Savage Realms Monthly https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08V1W68QD?binding=kindle_edition&ref_=dbs_s_ks_series_rwt_tkin&qid=1682193354&sr=1-1

Like any mag it is hit and miss but clearly in a S&S style.

The Renegade Swords anthologies are mix of old and new published by DMR books.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09HR3S3B1?binding=kindle_edition&qid=1682193417&sr=1-6&ref=dbs_dp_rwt_sb_pc_tukn

They have other anthologies including this one which has all of Manly Wade Wellmans's Atlantis stories. They aren't his most famous (that would be Silver John) but I liked their take on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Heroes-Atlantis-Lemuria-Manly-Wellman-ebook/dp/B07XPHF96Q/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2WS4UNFVBUWV&keywords=Atlantis+DMR&qid=1682193523&s=digital-text&sprefix=atlantis+dmr%2Cdigital-text%2C93&sr=1-1

If you are serious about reading a lot of this a Kindle Unlimited account is your friend.

As for an Appendix N book, get Jeffro's. He can be a bit of an ass with the BrOsr purity sometimes, but the book is well worth reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Appendix-Literary-History-Dungeons-Dragons-ebook/dp/B01MUB7WS6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2XEMLP6YA316M&keywords=Appendix+N&qid=1682193659&s=digital-text&sprefix=appendix+n%2Cdigital-text%2C109&sr=1-1

For those curious about the appendix N book the OP mentioned, here's a table of contents from it that a friend of mine posted a while back.

Greetings!

All of the books written by the late author, David Gemmel, are absolute gold.

I also recommend the KANE series, by author Karl Edward Wagner. Absolutely genius writing, evocative, and atmospheric. Characterizations are also fun. Probably the best homage to Robert E. Howard ever written. Wagner's KANE series of books are clearly inspired by Conan, though with a bit more magic and sorcery.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

If you don't mind listening to books instead of reading them, then several
Titles are available free of charge on YouTube, or on LibriVox.

I recommend "The Face in the Frost", and "Eyes of the Overworld".

I've read "Gardens of the Moon", but don't remember much about it.

"Once and Future King" is really good. Most think it's a kid's book, because Disney did the cartoon based on the first part, "The Sword in the Stone", but the rest of the book has some very adult themes, like adultery, torture, murder, and the like. The theme is how attempts to make a better world often contain the elements to fail miserably.

If you aren't averse to more young adult titles, then "The Hero and the Crown" and "The Blue Sword" by Robin McKinley are good. I read the "Hero" one first, but I think it is supposed to be read second. "Chronicles of Prydain" has been one of my favorite series since junior high.

N.D. Wilson has a trilogy, "100 Cupboards", "Dandelion Fire", and "The Chestnut King" that has some interesting ideas. They are "person from this world chucked into fantasy land" stories.

As others have said, you can't go wrong with Robert E Howard, Conan and Kull in particular.  Michael Moorcock's Elric stories and Fritz Lieber's Elric stories are really good.

For more of a crash course there are anthologies and collections of short stories that can cover a lot of ground quickly.

If you can find the Issac Asimov's Wizards anthology, it's got a number of good short stories including Mazerian the Magician by Jack Vance.

I used to have a Treasury of Fantasy from the eighties that had a number of older works like The King of the Golden River and George MacDonald's Phantasies but also has HP Lovecraft's The Doom That Came To Sarnath and Robert E Howard's Swords of the Purple Kingdom.

Some great recommendations but I'll add the following, all newer than the Appendix N list:

The Bard series by Keith Taylor.
The Thieves World shared world anthologies. I suggest you stick to the first three.
Gord the Rogue series by EGG himself.
The Midkemia series by Ray Feist.
The Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust.

Ok  I bought the book, it was cheap where I live. What shocked me how fast they delivered. Here are some pictures (Images below)

Appendix N: The Eldritch Roots of Dungeons and Dragons Paperback by Peter Bebergal

Front Cover


Back of the Front Cover


Content


Page 1 (Before the Introduction)


First page of the introduction


Back of the "Backcover"


Backcover


Almost at the end of the book it has some great black and white pictures, I think is for an adventure. I was not sure if is allowed to share the first page of that section for people to see the drawing. As you can see in the background, a blue map maybe from this adventure??

I am reading all the comments (I need to read it again later). Excellent recommendations, I am going to make a list and prioritize.

Quote from: David Johansen on April 22, 2023, 05:50:10 PM
For more of a crash course there are anthologies and collections of short stories that can cover a lot of ground quickly.

Exactly