Title says it all. Anyone?
Yep. Using just the core book. I already have all the 1st edition books to get ideas from.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1041390Title says it all. Anyone?
No, it doesn't tell me what MgT2 is. I guess I'm not playing it if I can't identify the letters....
EDIT: Based on Shawn's signature I'm guessing "Mongoose Traveller 2"
I've been running a game for about a year now. It's great fun and a real challenge for me creatively.
Players are mostly scientist and ex-navy. Essentially they get paid to explore worlds, but do some trading and take on passengers for extra cash.
Has it been a year already, Vic99:)? Or were you part of the playtest?
Quote from: finarvyn;1041694No, it doesn't tell me what MgT2 is. I guess I'm not playing it if I can't identify the letters....
EDIT: Based on Shawn's signature I'm guessing "Mongoose Traveller 2"
Your guess was right;).
I was unaware that Mongoose Traveller had moved to a 2nd edition. I started off with CT back in the "little black books" era and took a short look at Mongoose's 1st edition stuff, but my group is so much more into fantasy than scifi that I haven't really even done much with Mongoose 1st edition.
Did they change a lot? For the better or worse?
Quote from: finarvyn;1042062Did they change a lot? For the better or worse?
The changed enough, and it was definitely for the worse. Save your money and don't buy MgT2e, I didn't and I was in the playtest.
Quote from: finarvyn;1042062I was unaware that Mongoose Traveller had moved to a 2nd edition. I started off with CT back in the "little black books" era and took a short look at Mongoose's 1st edition stuff, but my group is so much more into fantasy than scifi that I haven't really even done much with Mongoose 1st edition.
Did they change a lot? For the better or worse?
You don't need 2nd edition if you already have 1st edition.
Nope. It seemed to be an edition to make changes just to sell more books (and screw over 3rd parties), not actually improving the game.
Nope. A year and a half ago I did finish a campaign of the 1st edition.
Quote from: jeff37923;1042063The changed enough, and it was definitely for the worse. Save your money and don't buy MgT2e, I didn't and I was in the playtest.
In a few weeks, I am about to become a player in MgT2 game. I am very curious what the changes are, could you elaborate how 2nd edition ruined the game for you?
Quote from: Moracai;1042687In a few weeks, I am about to become a player in MgT2 game. I am very curious what the changes are, could you elaborate how 2nd edition ruined the game for you?
The editing was absolutely substandard - playtesters would send in lists of spelling and wording errors which were ignored. Several of the rules just do not function (animal encounter creation, vehicle combat, etc), and comments on them were ignored. I think it was a cash grab to separate the single Core Rulebook into two books (needlessly altering spacecraft rules and construction so that MgT1e and MgT2e ship stats are incompatible). The artwork is horrendous and the isometric drawing deckplans are useless at the table. The TAS licensing debacle which screwed over third party publishers so badly that they made their own game so as to not lose their IP (Cepheus Engine). I could go on...
Thing is, Mongoose did an excellent job with the Core Rulebook for MgT1e and then took a hot steaming shit on the Traveller fanbase with MgT2e.
And I should point out, Traveller as a game and hobby has not been ruined for me by this. What has been ruined is my faith in Mongoose's good intentions towards its fans.
Thanks a bunch for the clarifications Jeff!
Seems like that since I'm sitting on the player side of the table, I don't need to concern myself with most of the things you mentioned. Sad to hear about the cash grab change-for-changes-sake, and I had previously read a bit about the licensing debacle, but thought nothing much of it because of an announcement from Mongoose.
Quote from: Moracai;1042698Thanks a bunch for the clarifications Jeff!
Seems like that since I'm sitting on the player side of the table, I don't need to concern myself with most of the things you mentioned. Sad to hear about the cash grab change-for-changes-sake, and I had previously read a bit about the licensing debacle, but thought nothing much of it because of an announcement from Mongoose.
If you are just a player, it should be fine. I usually referee and it made the task damn near impossible.
I can testify some of the rules are indeed unplayable. Vehicles chiefly among these.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1042765I can testify some of the rules are indeed unplayable. Vehicles chiefly among these.
Do spaceships count as vehicles in this context?
Traveller is near the top of my "want to play" list. I've seen it mentioned in multiple places that 1e is better and more complete than 2e. I grabbed what I believe is the 2e pdf. Is this (http://drivethrurpg.com/product/56586/Traveller-Main-Rulebook?cPath=161_4511) the 1e? I didn't think so at first because it looked like one of those old little black books. I'd just like to make sure before plunking down another $24 when I already have the 2e pdf.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1042878Traveller is near the top of my "want to play" list. I've seen it mentioned in multiple places that 1e is better and more complete than 2e. I grabbed what I believe is the 2e pdf. Is this (http://drivethrurpg.com/product/56586/Traveller-Main-Rulebook?cPath=161_4511) the 1e? I didn't think so at first because it looked like one of those old little black books. I'd just like to make sure before plunking down another $24 when I already have the 2e pdf.
Your link goes to 1st edition. If your copy has a 2008 copyright date it's definitely 1st. 2nd looks like this (http://drivethrurpg.com/product/171643/Traveller-Core-Rulebook).
I may be the only one I know who didn't convert, but isn't outraged by 2e. Splitting ship creation out into it's own book from the start saves having two competing ship building systems in the same game, which strikes me as reasonable. Then again, I wasn't in the playtest and didn't run out and buy the new line, so it's easy for me to stay philosophical. It's fair to say their implementation left a lot to be desired.
I do like Mongoose's game design, but their editing and quality control has always been poor. I was hopeful the new line would be stronger, by using feedback from 1st, but it appears that is not the case.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1042878Traveller is near the top of my "want to play" list. I've seen it mentioned in multiple places that 1e is better and more complete than 2e. I grabbed what I believe is the 2e pdf. Is this (http://drivethrurpg.com/product/56586/Traveller-Main-Rulebook?cPath=161_4511) the 1e? I didn't think so at first because it looked like one of those old little black books. I'd just like to make sure before plunking down another $24 when I already have the 2e pdf.
PM me your mailing address and I will send you a copy of the MgT1e Core Rulebook. Free. When something is good, I advocate it.
Or you can just play the Cepheus Engine for free.
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Yep, already switched but it's a matter of preference. I don't see a clear superiority.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1043110Yep, already switched but it's a matter of preference. I don't see a clear superiority.
How does Cepheus compare to Mongoose Traveller 1e? I hear that 2e material is just different enough(probably earlier in this thread, but I'm not going to reread the whole thing to check my sources) to not be compatible with 1e without doing extra work. How does Cepheus compare?
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1043114How does Cepheus compare to Mongoose Traveller 1e? I hear that 2e material is just different enough(probably earlier in this thread, but I'm not going to reread the whole thing to check my sources) to not be compatible with 1e without doing extra work. How does Cepheus compare?
It is Mongoose 1e scrubbed of all 3I IP and a few Mongoose specific mechanics like character creation events.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39088
What is Classic Traveller, now, chopped liver?
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043142What is Classic Traveller, now, chopped liver?
Nope.
But you can't legally write stuff for it and sell it due to licensing.
The OP is not about writing for Traveller, but playing it.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1043114How does Cepheus compare to Mongoose Traveller 1e?
Instead of using MT1's careers with 3 specialties, CE has 24 careers and no specialties. For example: MT1 has the Drifter career, with Barbarian, Scavenger, Wanderer as specialties. But CE has Barbarian, Belter, and Drifter as three seperate careers. Also, the default in CE is a failed survival roll = death. Optionally, the GM may allow you to roll on the Survival table, which gives results like "dishonorably dicharged, serve 4 years in prison..." CE has a section on generic aliens (Insectoids, Reptiloids, etc.) where as MT1 has the trad Trav races (Aslan, Hivers, etc.)
What kills CE for me is that the careers don't have the detailed Events, Mishaps, and Life events like MT1/2.
There may be other differences, but those stood out at a quick glance.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1043114I hear that 2e material is just different enough(probably earlier in this thread, but I'm not going to reread the whole thing to check my sources) to not be compatible with 1e without doing extra work. How does Cepheus compare?
I think that may be overstated. MT2 added "boon and bane" dice which are something like dis/advantage in 5E. MT 2 uses increasing TN's for more difficult tasks rather than penalties to the roll. MT2's dodge is -Dex mod, rather than always -1. So far that all works fine with MT1. MT2 also adds a new phase to character creation: University/Academy. And I think instead of mustering out with a ship, you get ship's shares. There may be critical differences in starship or vehicle combat; I haven't made it that far yet.
The three are so alike you can't go wrong with whatever you choose. But the more I read MT2, the more I like it.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043253The OP is not about writing for Traveller, but playing it.
Be a little more detailed in your aggro. Are you complaining about playing Traveller or Cepheus Engine as a Referee or as a Player? Are you complaining that the introduction of MgT2e has caused a rift in the fanbase? Are you saying that people should choose Classic Traveller over MgT or Cephesu Engine?
I for one love Cepheus Engine... as a vehicle for publishing adventures for Traveller without getting sued, or signing over all rights. Why I would choose CE over the edition I'm already comfortable with when CE looks suspiciously like an an exercise in outputting stats compatible with both Classic and Mongoose Traveller I have no idea.
Quote from: jeff37923;1043274Are you saying that people should choose Classic Traveller over MgT or Cephesu Engine?
Yes. Though I've not seen the latter, it may be almost as fabulous as that other 2d6 system, GAMERS.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043290Yes. Though I've not seen the latter, it may be almost as fabulous as that other 2d6 system, GAMERS.
Yeah, this is just you being aggro if you are making a spelling error and your own game an issue.
Nope, I am genuinely curious why anyone would play MGT if they have access to CT. Note: I have MGT, so I've done my own comparison. It's just CT with complexity and modifier creep. All those pages didn't add anything that a moderately imaginative GM and players couldn't.
Traveller's got to be the game with the most editions and rules adaptations. Honestly, I don't see the need.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043295Nope, I am genuinely curious why anyone would play MGT if they have access to CT. Note: I have MGT, so I've done my own comparison. It's just CT with complexity and modifier creep. All those pages didn't add anything that a moderately imaginative GM and players couldn't.
Traveller's got to be the game with the most editions and rules adaptations. Honestly, I don't see the need.
Personal preference and trade offs.
I like the way that MgT1e handles personal combat and character generation while I like how CT handles world generation and private messages. I like that MgT1e has a Book 0 that is much better at introducing players to Traveller than CT does. I like how CT has a High Guard starship creation system that works much more fluidly than MgT1e High Guard.
I love how you can port 99.99% of the material from MgT1e over to CT and vice versa.
Quote from: estar;1043140It is Mongoose 1e scrubbed of all 3I IP and a few Mongoose specific mechanics like character creation events.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39088
Well, it's not like there aren't Character Creation Events in Cepheus Engine settings. And it's not like there weren't "events" in MegaTraveller/Traveller 4 chargen. They were just called "special duties" and the like...
Which is what Mongoose's "events" tend to be, as well (apart from the "personal life events".
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043295Nope, I am genuinely curious why anyone would play MGT if they have access to CT.
I've got access to CT, TNE, MgT 1&2, T4&5, Cepheus Engine, several settings for Cepheus Engine, and a few games that are moderately to obviously inspired by Traveller...and am I forgetting something? Possibly, BoH makes following them hard;).
(And yes, I've been raising my Traveller education lately, thank you very much:p! The learning itself has been loads of fun, too!)
Anyway, I'm not likely to always play CT over any of the other editions.
Sometimes I want less broader skills. Sometimes I want more.
Sometimes I want more pre-determined modifiers. Sometimes I want them to come naturally to the Referee.
Sometimes I want armour as damage reduction...
Wait, I basically don't want armour to be armour class, ever:D. So that's a strike against CT: I have to import the combat from MgT/CE anyway!
But it's doable. So I might some day play CT, just with houserules when it comes to combat.
And I love the fact that Traveller has so many editions. There's always an edition that does things the way I want them to be done, no matter what I'm planning.
Quote from: jeff37923;1043306I love how you can port 99.99% of the material from MgT1e over to CT and vice versa.
Except for the MgT PCs having quite a bit more skills, you mean;)?
But yes, you can. It's just that by number of skills and the broadness of their skills, CT PCs are closer to Barbarian of Lemuria's PCs:D!
So BoL might be a better fit for porting stuff over from!
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043295Nope, I am genuinely curious why anyone would play MGT if they have access to CT. Note: I have MGT, so I've done my own comparison. It's just CT with complexity and modifier creep. All those pages didn't add anything that a moderately imaginative GM and players couldn't.
Traveller's got to be the game with the most editions and rules adaptations. Honestly, I don't see the need.
Why play MGT, CT, or CE when you can play TNE? :p
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043295Traveller's got to be the game with the most editions and rules adaptations. Honestly, I don't see the need.
Classic Traveller is a 1st-gen RPG. Mongoose Traveller is a 2nd-gen RPG. Players decide from there which to go with.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1043446Classic Traveller is a 1st-gen RPG. Mongoose Traveller is a 2nd-gen RPG. Players decide from there which to go with.
WTF does that even mean?
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1043295Nope, I am genuinely curious why anyone would play MGT if they have access to CT.
MongTrav runs smoother for me. In Classic every skill is a special case I have to look up or remember, with different target numbers and different dice modifiers for skill levels, while the unified skill system in Mongoose means all I have to remember is 8+ add skill level and stat mod, and I can GM skill rolls without opening a book. Also MongTrav careers are balanced against each other, and I don't have to choose between or houserule Book 1 or Mercenary character generation.
Now it happens that Mongoose was my first exposure to Traveller, so there may be an element of imprinting to my choice. But I suspect the same applies to GMs who choose Classic; I know the one Classic Trav GM I know in the real world started with it.
Quote from: Aglondir;1043273What kills CE for me is that the careers don't have the detailed Events, Mishaps, and Life events like MT1/2.
Well the Clement Sector setting and These Stars Are Ours! Add them back in. Simples.
Quote from: middenface;1043590Well the Clement Sector setting and These Stars Are Ours! Add them back in. Simples.
And I'd argue that special events have been part and parcel of lifepath mechanics long before Mongoose;).
Quote from: AsenRG;1043604And I'd argue that special events have been part and parcel of lifepath mechanics long before Mongoose;).
I'm not arguing a thing, just those are two CE settings that have them...
Quote from: middenface;1043607I'm not arguing a thing, just those are two CE settings that have them...
Fair enough:). I'm just correcting the IMO erroneous statement that those events are "Mongoose mechanics", but I didn't mean to imply that you are supporting the same opinion!
Quote from: AsenRG;1043604And I'd argue that special events have been part and parcel of lifepath mechanics long before Mongoose;).
I don't see how, unless you're making it up or using a supplement. (Edit: Unless you mean in general? Like the lifepaths in the Ral Tal games?) Niether the CT or CE corebooks have stuff like this:
Quote from: Mongoose Trav SRDYour ship is ambushed by enemy vessels. Either run, and throw Pilot 8+ to escape, or treat with them and throw Persuade 10+ to bargain with them. If you fail the check, then your ship is destroyed and you may not re-enlist in the Scouts at the end of this term. If you succeed, you survive and gain Sensors 1. Either way, gain an Enemy.
Which is my answer to this question:
Quote from: Kyle AaronI am genuinely curious why anyone would play MGT if they have access to CT.
Quote from: Dave R;1043476Now it happens that Mongoose was my first exposure to Traveller, so there may be an element of imprinting to my choice. But I suspect the same applies to GMs who choose Classic; I know the one Classic Trav GM I know in the real world started with it.
True. Most players tend to stick with the edition of Traveller they first started RPGing with.
Quote from: Aglondir;1043644I don't see how, unless you're making it up or using a supplement. (Edit: Unless you mean in general? Like the lifepaths in the Ral Tal games?)
I mean lifepaths in general, yes. What's Ral Tal? Not familiar with it, unless it's a different name for R. Talsorian games:)!
Either way, I was thinking exactly CP2020 (so R. Talsorian), Sengoku, Artesia, and Maelstrom Domesday/Gothic;).
In addition to it, you get stuff like medals and awards, promotions and the like in T4, which are determined in chargen. And I'd say that's close enough for me.
QuoteNiether the CT or CE corebooks have stuff like this:
But other books do:p.
What you posted amounts to "Gain an Enemy", with a roll that either makes it worse, or makes it better because you gain a skill point.
QuoteWhich is my answer to this question:
Of course, it's a legit answer as far as I'm concerned. I like the events in the Mongoose books, too:)!
I just don't consider them "a Mongoose-made innovation".
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1043652True. Most players tend to stick with the edition of Traveller they first started RPGing with.
And here I'm unlike most players yet again;)!
Quote from: AsenRG;1043781I mean lifepaths in general, yes. What's Ral Tal? Not familiar with it, unless it's a different name for R. Talsorian games:)!
Oops I meant R. Tal. I must have fuzed "Ral Partha" with "R. Talsorian." I think they were they first Lifepath games I encountered.