Quote from: Dumarest;981582Is that actually for sale and in print again? Every time I check it's out of print with a new edition pending.

I don't see it up for sale at the moment which is too bad as it is excellent (in my top 3 OSR flavors).  It is basically OD&D or Swords and Wizardry plus Akrasia's house rules.

There are other details that Newt added as well, especially the setting and some backgrounds, so the book is worth picking up if you like sword and sorcery and OD&D.  I like Newt's stuff. It is not as polished as some, but his rules are no-nonsense.  Which reminds me that Openquest is a good option for Hyborian Age adventures for those who feel Mythras is on the crunchy end of the spectrum.

Quote from: vivsavage;981578I think this stuff is great for NPCs and monsters, but not for PCs. Conan doesn't get stabbed in the heart or have his limbs crushed or severed in Howard's works. When he gets captured, it''s usually because of poison, magic, or a crack on the head he didn't see coming. In that sense, I find Mythras & Runequest to be ill-fitting. The increasing hit points in d20 works well for Conan, IMHO. He could fall 100' off a cliff onto a bed of razor sharp rocks and still live without any lasting injury. Any why is it? It's because he's Conan. Mythras doesn't allow for that type of 'immunity.' If Conan were to fall off that cliff in RQ/Mythras, he'd either be dead or a mass of shattered body parts and more than likely permanently maimed. When I designed Red Mists, I made the system to specifically allow for the hacking of enemies but not PCs.

As for the 2d20 Conan game, it seems too slow to me. Sword & sorcery combat should be fast & furious, and I'm not convinced the Modiphius system can do that.

As always, a matter of preference & opinion.

What you're talking about has nothing to do with Conan specifically.  It's generic Protagonist Immunity.  Also I just read The Black Stranger, where Conan spends the whole beginning of the story running from Picts, and can't fully outrun them because of a wounded leg, and can't elude them because of a wounded arm leaving a blood trail.

Quote from: CRKrueger;981644What you're talking about has nothing to do with Conan specifically.  It's generic Protagonist Immunity.  Also I just read The Black Stranger, where Conan spends the whole beginning of the story running from Picts, and can't fully outrun them because of a wounded leg, and can't elude them because of a wounded arm leaving a blood trail.

It is indeed protagonist immunity, which we seen in every sword & sorcery tale (except Elric!). The scene you just described fits very well for me, as it portrays the danger of the world he lives in. Nonetheless, it is my preference that characters not lose limbs or become crippled in the S&S games I play. It doesn't fit my vision of the genre at the game table, while hacking through swathes of temple guards does. Now, something like Mythras would be perfect for something like Harn, where that kind of realism is well suited.

Getting back to the Conan 2d20 game, I enjoy reading and looking at it. I would use its flavor and adventures for my own Red Mists RPG. But the mechanics are too fidgety and slow to portray the pacing of Conan's stories IMHO.

Quote from: Madprofessor;981643Which reminds me that Openquest is a good option for Hyborian Age adventures for those who feel Mythras is on the crunchy end of the spectrum.

Can you tell me what differentiates Open Quest from something like Magic World or BRP?

Quote from: vivsavage;981578I think this stuff is great for NPCs and monsters, but not for PCs. Conan doesn't get stabbed in the heart or have his limbs crushed or severed in Howard's works. When he gets captured, it''s usually because of poison, magic, or a crack on the head he didn't see coming. In that sense, I find Mythras & Runequest to be ill-fitting. The increasing hit points in d20 works well for Conan, IMHO. He could fall 100' off a cliff onto a bed of razor sharp rocks and still live without any lasting injury. Any why is it? It's because he's Conan. Mythras doesn't allow for that type of 'immunity.' If Conan were to fall off that cliff in RQ/Mythras, he'd either be dead or a mass of shattered body parts and more than likely permanently maimed. When I designed Red Mists, I made the system to specifically allow for the hacking of enemies but not PCs.

Here, I just want to echo Pete and CRK, and maybe add a little bit.  The Hyborian Age is a grim blood and guts world, and a game needs to portray that to do it service.  Conan, who was a cut above other men in a kind of Neitzschean or Darwinist sort of way, was always in very real mortal danger in Howard's writing.  That's what makes it riveting and alive.

If you play a game where you know your character can't get maimed, go mad, or die then it will be impossible to capture excitement and savagery of Howard's world and/or stories.

Of course Conan didn't die, he was busy paying Howard's bills.  But you don't read Red Nails or Queen of the Black Coast thinking "I know Conan will win so there is nothing to fear or get excited about" and you wouldn't play a game that way either - it would do more than ruin the experience, it would make the whole effort pointless.

Ever read Conan of the Isles by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter? It embraces the whole "Conan can't die attitude" and it is laughable because of it.  

QuoteAs always, a matter of preference & opinion.

I don't think it is. I never completely bought the whole "it's all subjective" relativism shtick, but that's an argument for another time and place. It is certainly a convenient way to move on when we disagree.

QuoteAs for the 2d20 Conan game, it seems too slow to me. Sword & sorcery combat should be fast & furious, and I'm not convinced the Modiphius system can do that.

This is great point! and one that have made over and over.  Whether you are playing IC or collaborate storytime, pace is critical in capturing the feel of Howard. You don't want a game that slows you down.  This was a problem for me with Mongoose Conan at higher levels - but it probably depends on the group's level of comfort with the rules.  Specifically with 2d20, players can always choose to roll extra dice to shoot for super successes so they are constantly weighing these decisions.  This drags the game down, especially if you have players with chronic analysis paralysis.

If I wanted to run a Conan/S&S campaign with a focus on vulnerability, danger, and risk, I wouldn't hesitate to use some variation of BRP. (Though, likely something more abstract like Elric!/Stormbringer than MRQ2/MRQ6/Mythras). Experiencing the Hyborian world as a developing character in the environment, and not as the pinnacle-protagonist-experience of playing Conan, himself.

If I wanted to more closely model a Conan story, where characters are practically superheroic, and can "hack[...] through swathes of temple guards", I'd use Barbarians of Lemuria. Easy fit; the characters, from the outset, are far above the abilities of normal men and can take on hordes of mooks.

I didn't have a positive experience as a player in a Mutant Chronicles 3 campaign last year, and wouldn't be inclined at all to use 2D20 for Conan. Frankly, I think the system sucks, and is bloated with nonsensical, complex-abstractionist rules. (Complex and abstract rules seems like it should be an oxymoron, but Modiphius found a way to do it). I'm sure that the game is all kinds of pretty, but the system wouldn't be worth the annoyance, for me.

Quote from: Madprofessor;981665Here, I just want to echo Pete and CRK, and maybe add a little bit.  The Hyborian Age is a grim blood and guts world, and a game needs to portray that to do it service.  Conan, who was a cut above other men in a kind of Neitzschean or Darwinist sort of way, was always in very real mortal danger in Howard's writing.  That's what makes it riveting and alive.

If you play a game where you know your character can't get maimed, go mad, or die then it will be impossible to capture excitement and savagery of Howard's world and/or stories.

I'm not suggesting that stuff, except for the maimed bit. Madness and death should certainly be a possibility.

Quote from: Dumarest;981582Is that actually for sale and in print again? Every time I check it's out of print with a new edition pending.

Quote from: Madprofessor;981643I don't see it up for sale at the moment which is too bad as it is excellent (in my top 3 OSR flavors).  It is basically OD&D or Swords and Wizardry plus Akrasia's house rules.

There are other details that Newt added as well, especially the setting and some backgrounds, so the book is worth picking up if you like sword and sorcery and OD&D.  I like Newt's stuff. It is not as polished as some, but his rules are no-nonsense.  Which reminds me that Openquest is a good option for Hyborian Age adventures for those who feel Mythras is on the crunchy end of the spectrum.

You guys must not be looking in the right place because it's right here: Crypts and Things Remastered - D101 Games | Crypts and Things | DriveThruRPG.com.

And I agree on OpenQuest. There's an OpenQuest mini-setting with 4 scenarios for "arctic Conan with the filenumbers removed": The Savage North.

Quote from: vivsavage;981656It is indeed protagonist immunity, which we seen in every sword & sorcery tale (except Elric!).

No, my point is it's every tale in which the Protagonist does not die, from Bruce Willis in Die Hard, to James Bond, to Bugs Bunny.  There's nothing about Sword & Sorcery as a genre that embraces Protagonist Immunity.

Saying my S&S hero shouldn't die or get crippled because {Sword and Sorcery Literary Hero} is nonsensical unless you're saying you want to play a game in which the character is a character inside a literary story, with an OOC eye towards literary genre.  In which case the operative effect is "literary genre" NOT "Sword and Sorcery".

Quote from: CRKrueger;981909Saying my S&S hero shouldn't die or get crippled because {Sword and Sorcery Literary Hero} is nonsensical.

I'm not saying that characters shouldn't die. Let's just leave it that I enjoy something like d20 Conan to Mythras for adventuring in the Hyborean Age.

Quote from: Dumarest;978530I prefer Howard/Conan over Tolkien/hobbits, but that's just utter nonsense:

Domestic box office gross (not counting video/DVD/whatever):
Return of the King
$377,027,325

Two Towers
$339,789,881

Fellowship of the Ring
$313,364,114

The Hobbit
$303,003,568

The Hobbit 2
$258,366,855

The Hobbit 3
$255,119,788

Foreign box office gross (not counting video/DVD/whatever):
Return of the King
$742,083,616

Two Towers
$583,495,746

Fellowship of the Ring
$555,985,574

The Hobbit
$718,100,000

The Hobbit 2
$700,000,000

The Hobbit 3
$700,900,000

Domestic box office gross (not counting video/DVD/whatever):
Conan the Barbarian (2011)
$21,295,021

Conan the Destroyer
$31,042,035

Conan the Barbarian (1982)
$39,565,475

Foreign grosses not readily available for all the Conan movies.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=vs-lotr.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=conan3d.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=conanthedestroyer.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=conanthebarbarian.htm

And you can compare book sales as well if you want further refutation of your assertion. Again, I like Conan better but the world does not. Tolkien's influence on modern fantasy is unfortunately far greater than Howard's. One needs only look at all the knockoffs of Tolkien clogging the bookshelves.

Apples and Oranges, you cannot compare box office receipts from movies more than 20 years apart. Even adjusting for inflation you are still comparing movies made under vastly different conditions, budgets, studio expectations, marketing etc.  

The 1978 Lord of the Rings took in $30.5 million with a $4 million budget
Excalibur (1981) took in $35 million, with an $11 million dollar budget.
Conan the Barbarian (1982) took in $39 million, with an $18 million budget.


The more recent LotR films ran 90-100 million each, the 3 Hobbit films each exceeded $200 million to make. Corrected for inflation Conan the Barbarian (1982) would have a budget of $33 million (2001) or $43 million (2012).


Honestly I don't get this line of discussion, it is sort of like arguing who is better Santa, Jesus or Buddha. Everybody knows the names and "best" is a rather personal choice. Harry Potter puts them both to shame if we just look at the bottom line.

There are lists that do adjust for inflation, like this one. Not that that tells you anything about the quality of a film unless you think Gone with the Wind truly is the greatest film ever.

Quote from: Voros;982192There are lists that do adjust for inflation, like this one. Not that that tells you anything about the quality of a film unless you think Gone with the Wind truly is the greatest film ever.

They can adjust for inflation, but another factor is that movies like Gone With the Wind were perennially re-released in an era when home viewing wasn't an option.

More importantly Gone with the Wind was released before TV when a far larger percentage of the population went to theatres to see films.

So other than CR does anyone have any extensive play experience with the game?

And aside from that how would you rate the art and setting material?