Quote from: RPGPunditKicks sockquestion's ass into his hat.

Holy crap, that was a thing of beauty.  Good to know the old boy still has it in him.

Quote from: Certified;796441I think I'll put this right here.

That's an Oglaf cartoon if I ever read one. :rotfl:

The Paladin in question is not "wrong" for selling off her father's +2 Sword. Here's why: She's 5th level and has a Divine Bond which allows her to enhance any weapon she's wielding with a +1 bonus. This means that at MOST she's losing a +1 to attack and damage rolls. I think that's a fair compromise for the potion she wants for her spouse.

But I don't think this is really about paladin's possibly breaking their vow or the code.

Quote from: RPGPundit;796466Come out and say it, and stop pussyfooting around if its what you actually believe and you don't think it's wrong.  If you're worried about being banned, take note that I'm the OWNER of this forum (and also the first guy to ever put a transgender character on the cover an RPG rulebook, so there's also that!), and I'm promising you that you won't be banned for sharing what you really think about transgender people.

Boom, motherfuckers.

Quote from: Batman;796522The Paladin in question is not "wrong" for selling off her father's +2 Sword. Here's why: She's 5th level and has a Divine Bond which allows her to enhance any weapon she's wielding with a +1 bonus. This means that at MOST she's losing a +1 to attack and damage rolls. I think that's a fair compromise for the potion she wants for her spouse.

But I don't think this is really about paladin's possibly breaking their vow or the code.

As written, the half-orc paladin NPC seems to exist only to validate the sex-swap Rogue NPC. Her attitude to him/her is exactly the same at all stages of his /her identity. They are romantic lovers, then married:

1. When the Paladin thinks the Rogue is a woman.
2. When the Paladin knows the Rogue is a man pretending to be a woman.
3. When the Paladin gives the Rogue the magic potion so that the Rogue has had a magical sex change and become a woman.

The Paladin as written seems to have no sexual orientation (there's no indication that she's bisexual). It's stated that the sex of the Rogue is irrelevant to the Paladin. The way it's written, her love for the Rogue is described as a sort of exalted 'on a higher plane' thing, transcending bodily concerns. But they are also happily (and officially) married, presumably involving conjugal relations.
I can't make sense of this character, or at least I can't make sense of the author's attempt to depict the character. She comes across more as a political statement than a person.

Quote from: S'mon;796527As written, the half-orc paladin NPC seems to exist only to validate the sex-swap Rogue NPC. Her attitude to him/her is exactly the same at all stages of his /her identity. They are romantic lovers, then married:

1. When the Paladin thinks the Rogue is a woman.
2. When the Paladin knows the Rogue is a man pretending to be a woman.
3. When the Paladin gives the Rogue the magic potion so that the Rogue has had a magical sex change and become a woman.

The Paladin as written seems to have no sexual orientation (there's no indication that she's bisexual). It's stated that the sex of the Rogue is irrelevant to the Paladin. The way it's written, her love for the Rogue is described as a sort of exalted 'on a higher plane' thing, transcending bodily concerns. But they are also happily (and officially) married, presumably involving conjugal relations.
I can't make sense of this character, or at least I can't make sense of the author's attempt to depict the character. She comes across more as a political statement than a person.

Potions must be how the cool kids are doing it these days. I remember when you had to wear a belt in D&D land to get gender swapped. I also remember a +2 to Strength but that's besides the point.

Quote from: S'mon;796527As written, the half-orc paladin NPC seems to exist only to validate the sex-swap Rogue NPC. Her attitude to him/her is exactly the same at all stages of his /her identity. They are romantic lovers, then married:

1. When the Paladin thinks the Rogue is a woman.
2. When the Paladin knows the Rogue is a man pretending to be a woman.
3. When the Paladin gives the Rogue the magic potion so that the Rogue has had a magical sex change and become a woman.

The Paladin as written seems to have no sexual orientation (there's no indication that she's bisexual). It's stated that the sex of the Rogue is irrelevant to the Paladin. The way it's written, her love for the Rogue is described as a sort of exalted 'on a higher plane' thing, transcending bodily concerns. But they are also happily (and officially) married, presumably involving conjugal relations.
I can't make sense of this character, or at least I can't make sense of the author's attempt to depict the character. She comes across more as a political statement than a person.

Go watch Boys Don't Cry (starring Hilary Swank) and you might get a better understanding of that sort of relationship. In the movie Hilary Swank is a girl who adopts a male persona and finds love from another girl. The girl in the movie, discovers that Hilary is really a girl, and is OK with it.

So, from that perspective, the Paladin loves this person no matter what their sex is and the Rogue in question wants to change their sex. The paladin, wanting to see their spouse truly happy, does something expensive to make her lover's dreams come true.

It does seem odd to me that marital status, lovers, etc. were largely ignored in D&D products up until the last five years or so. And that their inclusion by Paizo coincides with American culture wars over gay marriage, and now transgender rights. I suppose it could be a coincidence. More likely it's political signalling.

Some people don't seem to understand that someone can be fully supportive of gay marriage and real-world transgendered rights, and have no interest in seeing it in RPGs not because of politics, but because modern real-world social issues and politics are simply dumb and irksome in D&D adventures. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Paizo adventure path includes a magical version of fracking. The evil elemental warlock Egson is using water elementals to force primordial ooze out of the earth and fouling the elvish Meadows of Dahko-tah. Can you help your elvish step-brother Connor stop Egson, and restore the Meadows to their natural state?

But it seems politics and group-signally trump all on the interwebz these days.

Quote from: Batman;796532Go watch Boys Don't Cry

Or "The Crying game", which has a real twist to the story, but applicable to this thread somewhat.

Quote from: S'mon;796527The Paladin as written seems to have no sexual orientation (there's no indication that she's bisexual). It's stated that the sex of the Rogue is irrelevant to the Paladin. The way it's written, her love for the Rogue is described as a sort of exalted 'on a higher plane' thing, transcending bodily concerns. But they are also happily (and officially) married, presumably involving conjugal relations.
I can't make sense of this character, or at least I can't make sense of the author's attempt to depict the character. She comes across more as a political statement than a person.

It does seem odd, and not necessarily something some folks (myself included) can relate to. On the other hand, I know a married couple, one of whom is TG, and they were together before she underwent her transition, so it does happen.

Eh. I think Pundit has the right of it. Stupidquestion's primary beef doesn't seem to have anything to do with the rules or setting, (s)he just thinks trans people are icky.

Edit: Also, what Haffrung said.

Quote from: woodsmoke;796539It does seem odd, and not necessarily something some folks (myself included) can relate to. On the other hand, I know a married couple, one of whom is TG, and they were together before she underwent her transition, so it does happen.

That seems to be common with middle-aged couples. Husband becomes a lesbian, wife stays with him-her.

I guess my biggest problem with the half-orc Paladin is actually the middle stage - she seems to be lesbian, but she has no problem with her girlfriend being a man. But is also happy to get him the sex-change potion.

Quote from: S'mon;796546That seems to be common with middle-aged couples. Husband becomes a lesbian, wife stays with him-her.

I guess my biggest problem with the half-orc Paladin is actually the middle stage - she seems to be lesbian, but she has no problem with her girlfriend being a man. But is also happy to get him the sex-change potion.

Or, you know, she's bisexual, and cares about the person more than their gender.

Yeah, that doesn't really make sense to me either. I'm content to just chalk it up to crappy writing possibly/probably backed up by a postmodernist "it's all just socialization" belief. Which is mildly irritating, but it's also an adventure module. I learned to stop taking anything in those seriously decades ago (right about the time I started playing tabletop RPGs in the first place).

Edit: Or what Ladybird said. Again, adventure module. I'm even less impressed with those than I am with most splatbooks.

Or, you know, or

And I know this one might be hard for people to get

Cause apparently it is

She saw her wife was a woman the whole time whether she had man parts or not? Cause she was. That is what being transgender is.

Quote from: Certified;796528Potions must be how the cool kids are doing it these days. I remember when you had to wear a belt in D&D land to get gender swapped.

Given that (in the Greyhawk magic item tables) there were 2 chances of a girdle of femininity/masculinity and one chance of a girdle of giant strength, we thought ourselves very clever for recruiting a character who wanted to change gender to test out any magical girdles.  Little did we suspect that we could also have demanded +2 swords for the privilege.