Quote from: 1989;796410It's only going to get worse from here on out.

SJWs are hijacking RPGs to appease the 2-3% of the North American population that is gay/whatever.

Pathfinder already prouldy trumpets these anomalies and shoves them down your throat. D&D is close at hand.

You're so fucking ridiculous.  Obviously, no one is forcing you to make your next Ranger gay.  So your problem with this actually amounts to RPG products even acknowledging the factual existence of homosexuality or non-binary gender.  Just saying "this exists" is a problem to you; because no where have I seen D&D do anything other than that; I don't know very much about pathfinder (having never bothered with it) but apparently the big issue the OP has is that it's being portrayed as a thing (and because a paladin is involved, a non-evil thing; which is different from even saying it's objectively good).

So yeah, the lead designer of D&D is right: if you have such a problem with something that actually exists that you want a fantasy setting to be less reflective of reality by not having any mention of it at all, you are a bigot.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;796440are you pissed off because they are not portraying a Paladin in the way you expect and sexual identity has nothing at all to do with that... in which case you have no issue with "current events"?

They use the paladin against his role to depict being in favor of their political position regarding "current events" as lawful good and thereby mark those opposing their political position as evil; thats why i am "pissed". (no more details, cause you probably anyway dislike long posts)

Quote from: Certified;796441I think I'll put this right here.

:rotfl:

Quote from: Will;796433Since when isn't it?

Since battles last longer than 15 mins?

Quote from: Will;796433You're also noticeably avoiding the point that magic weapons aren't rare.

Cause its a waste of space to counter the argument, pal is lev 5, weapon is +2 to pay for the potion with 50% sell value and +2 is great for lev 5.

Quote from: stupidquestion;796449They use the paladin against his role to depict being in favor of their political position regarding "current events" as lawful good and thereby mark those opposing their political position as evil; thats why i am "pissed". (no more details, cause you probably anyway dislike long posts)

So if it was a heterosexual gender-conforming male/female couple, and the paladin needed to sell her sword to free her lover from a non-fatal but devastating curse that had left him in a body not his own, you'd have no problem with her doing so?

Quote from: RPGPundit;796456So if it was a heterosexual gender-conforming male/female couple, and the paladin needed to sell her sword to free her lover from a non-fatal but devastating curse that had left him in a body not his own, you'd have no problem with her doing so?

Still a problem, cause pals are supposed to think futher than people personally dear to her, but less, because it would not indicate anything about today politics and would not indirectly call 20-50% of population of western countries evil (exact numbers i would have to look up in polls).

Quote from: stupidquestion;796458Still a problem, cause pals are supposed to think futher than people personally dear to her, but less, because it would not indicate anything about today politics and would not indirectly call 20-50% of population of western countries evil (exact numbers i would have to look up in polls).

Your answer makes it pretty clear that this whole "we must preserve the role of the paladin" thing is just an irrelevant side-tracking of your main issue: you think transgender people are icky.

To the point that you are willing to go to absurd lengths as to what the game system is saying in what was clearly a paizo-standard 'novel plotline in rpg product railroad' bad-pseudoliterary-drama shitfest (seriously, I can just imagine some second-rate failed-novelist imagining himself to be the next O. Henry for having added that scene to a game supplement).

However stupid it might be, or hipster the motivation might be, let's look at what YOU are doing: you have started a thread in a site you've never been on before (unless you're a sockpuppet, and we're looking into that right now), where you're trying to argue that a Paladin not immediately losing her powers for loving a transgender person is not just a statement that having a transgender love is 'not bad enough to lose abilities' but is rather stating that LGBT relationships are an absolute moral good making those who dislike them a an absolute moral evil, all just because a paladin sold her sword to help her lover.

So let's extrapolate this in another direction: Let's say the paladin's lover was fat, instead of transgender.  And the paladin was selling the sword to pay for liposuction.   IF paizo had done this instead, would they be:
a) putting in a ridiculous anachronism while thinking they're clever, because they're shitty writers and even shittier adventure-designers?
b) stating that its ok for a paladin to give up a treasured magic item in order to help someone she loves?
or
c) claiming that ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LIKE FATTIES IS HITLER?

I mean, I could get it, if paizo had some scene in one of their shitfest adventures where you had, say, an evil order of knights that persecute transgender people and they were the bad guys.  Let me be clear: in the real world, people who persecute transgender people ARE bad guys, but that would probably just be done in the book as heavy-handed and over the top writing that would engage in stupid moralizing masquerading as adventure.
But paizo didn't even fucking do that!

So yeah, all of this, all of this concern about how the paladin theoretically won't be able to kill theoretical demons now because of the Transgender Agenda, and how her god not immediately smiting her for selling a weapon to help someone she loves, is all because you think transgender people are icky.

Just say it.
Admit it.
You'll feel better if you stop trying to hide your true feelings, won't you?
Come out and say it, and stop pussyfooting around if its what you actually believe and you don't think it's wrong.  If you're worried about being banned, take note that I'm the OWNER of this forum (and also the first guy to ever put a transgender character on the cover an RPG rulebook, so there's also that!), and I'm promising you that you won't be banned for sharing what you really think about transgender people.
You might be banned if you turn out to be a sockpuppet, or if you turn every other thread you post in into an soapbox for a totally off-topic personal issue, or if you post porn, or if you stalk someone else. But I absolutely PROMISE that you don't have to hide behind arguments about fictional paladins serving fictional gods and not getting fictionally punished here, you won't be banned for just saying that you don't want any of those icky transgender people in your RPGs, and showing us all just what a stupid fucking bigot you really are.

You'll just be ruthlessly mocked, and have your arguments torn to shreds by people smarter than you.

Because I strongly believe no one should ever be banned or censored for saying stupid fucking bigoted things.  It causes us all to lose learning opportunities that way.

You know what they say, there are no stupid questions, only inquisitive idiots.

Quote from: RPGPundit;796466But I absolutely PROMISE that you don't have to hide behind arguments about fictional paladins serving fictional gods and not getting fictionally punished here, you won't be banned for just saying that you don't want any of those icky transgender people in your RPGs, and showing us all just what a stupid fucking bigot you really are.

You'll just be ruthlessly mocked, and have your arguments torn to shreds by people smarter than you.

Because I strongly believe no one should ever be banned or censored for saying stupid fucking bigoted things.  It causes us all to lose learning opportunities that way.

For some reason I feel like clapping.
:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:

RPGPundit lays the smack down. Well said on all points.

Quote from: Certified;796441I think I'll put this right here.

I just laughed aloud at work. Weird looks from everyone around me and a quizzical eyebrow from my supervisor. I'm just glad he didn't come over and ask me what was so funny.

Thank you so, so much for that.

Quote from: RPGPundit;796466Your answer makes it pretty clear that this whole "we must preserve the role of the paladin" thing is just an irrelevant side-tracking of your main issue: you think transgender people are icky.

Dear petty, mercurial gods on Olympus, that was fucking beautiful.

Quote from: stupidquestion;796339Paizo Adventure Path 73, Paladin selling the magic sword inherited from her father to pay for "gender reassignment magic" as a wedding gift to her spouse suffering from biologically being male, so that their marriage can be more happy and complete.

Considering that a paladin per RAW must be lawful good and may not commit an evil act or act against code of conduct, especially act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), without losing Pal class abilities, and that the repective pal did not have any such problems, the respectives paladins actions are declared by the respective authors (and Paizo leadership agrees as far as i know) to be exemplary conduct and any suggestions, that what that pal did was wrong in some way, are without base according to Paizo. Thats "political commentary" or maybe more precisely "moral commentary about issues currently fought about in politics".

Paizo is of course free to do this. And I am free not to pay for.

But since i paid inadvertently for this, because i never considered some RPG stuff might contain such blatant nonsense (a paladin, sworn to live a life of not metamophorically but literal fighting evil resistant or immune to non-magic weapons, selling her only magic weapon - also inherited from her father slain by demons - to please her lover and herself and she doesn't need attonement for this?) for "commentary" purposes, i decided to inform myself about any tendencies some company i consider buying products from might have for "commentary".

And i am not only interested about what the current books contain, but whether there's any guess about future products. Because i would mind buying basic rulebooks and then realize that further supplemental stuff again is used for "commentary" (in case you did not guess, Pathfinder basic rules do not contain any such hint).


And thats of course not the only example, but the most blatant and annoying, paladin selling her magic sword directly for personal pleasure and indirecty for authors "commentary" is nuts on so many levels.

I have a bunch of Paizo stuff and that (Book 1 of Wrath of the Righteous) is by far the most extreme bit in anything they've put out. Rise of the Runelords also has a gay Paladin in a committed long term relationship but it's pretty conventional modern liberal morality, not the off-the-deep-end-SJWing tone I got from Wrath of the Righteous.

WoTC traditionally avoided any commentary on modern "World War G/World War T" type stuff - when I decided some of the official-WoTC NPCs in their 4e FR setting were gay in my Loudwater campaign, that was a choice I got to make myself, not something WoTC declared; WoTC avoided discussing the sexuality of their NPCs at all, whereas Paizo often spend several paragraphs on it - or a couple pages in the case of that WoTR couple (and I'm still not sure I understand what can possibly be going through the head of that half-orc Paladin - the sex-swap Rogue character actually makes a lot more sense).

I think if you stick with WoTC material up to 2014 you should be ok. Probably even current & future material - I don't think they'll be going Full Paizo, though you never know.

Quote from: Certified;796441I think I'll put this right here.

Awesome. Reminds me of my half-orc bard who wanted to open a bakery/pastry shop.

Quote from: stupidquestion;796405And for people misreading, the issue is not having LGBT-chars in, the issue is use them in a way to make a political statement.

They've got much more extreme on this over time. The 2007 Runelords gay couple could easily be taken as "these characters just happen to be gay." Some other NPCs disapprove of them, most don't, the text indicates that this is normal in a NG-aligned settlement but there is no hit-you-over-head with it. By 2013 with 'World War T' in the media they had gone far, far more overtly political in their stance, and I expect that will continue. Presumably this works for them financially, but I've started finding it pretty tiresome. I guess I'd suggest if you buy any more Paizo stuff, get 2012 or earlier - they were always strongly socially liberal but it didn't come across as fetishised the way it does now.

Quote from: S'mon;796514They've got much more extreme on this over time. The 2007 Runelords gay couple could easily be taken as "these characters just happen to be gay." Some other NPCs disapprove of them, most don't, the text indicates that this is normal in a NG-aligned settlement but there is no hit-you-over-head with it. By 2013 with 'World War T' in the media they had gone far, far more overtly political in their stance, and I expect that will continue. Presumably this works for them financially, but I've started finding it pretty tiresome. I guess I'd suggest if you buy any more Paizo stuff, get 2012 or earlier - they were always strongly socially liberal but it didn't come across as fetishised the way it does now.

Can you believe them, now they want to give robots their own gods.

http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/ironGods