Quote from: Will;797075One thing I've grown to appreciate as I've gotten older is understanding how accurate snap judgements can be.

In this case, bigotry.


So what you're saying is that dressing like a woman is a sweet sweet temptation that you needed parents to keep from you?

That's interesting.

So essentially you have no legitimate counterargument and have resorted to simple ad hominem. Glad we got that cleared up.

Quote from: Bren;797076Wearing a dress gives you cavities? Who knew?

EDIT: OK, Will's response is funnier.

Yep

Quote from: Will;797062What exactly do you suggest? Beating it out of the child?

I suggest not labelling them as 'trans' - or anything else - in preschool. Let him wear a dress, or at least gender-neutral clothing, to nursery school if he wants; don't tell him 'Ok, that means you're Trans now'.

Quote from: Brad;797081Yep

Interesting. Cute. But nothing in the study is related to attire.

Perhaps looking at the effects of penmanship training on handedness would be a more apt analogy.

Quote from: S'mon;797082I suggest not labelling them as 'trans' - or anything else - in preschool. Let him wear a dress, or at least gender-neutral clothing, to nursery school if he wants; don't tell him 'Ok, that means you're Trans now'.

Nobody has. But when he insists on dresses, playing with girlie things, and being called 'she'...

Again, why are you assuming people are foisting their attitudes on her?

Eh, I personally think that that age is a bit young for trans.

I mean, my son likes dresses. He doesn't wear them out, but he would put on play dress dresses when he was younger in his room. My wife and I didn't really care if he wanted to do it, so we ended up just moving the play dress stuff into his room if he wanted to.

If he comes out to me when he is in his teens and thinks he is trans, I'll be there for him, but at the age he is now, its not that uncommon to experiment with identity like that.

While I think Brad is wrong on the whole, OMG take away the dresses! I also think that age is a bit young to declare trans status, unless there was extensive sessions done with a child psychologist with no vested interest into trans politics to back it up. Anyone who knows they are trans at preschool age is ridiculously rare.

Quote from: Brad;797080So essentially you have no legitimate counterargument and have resorted to simple ad hominem. Glad we got that cleared up.

No, just lauding you for your consistency in presentation.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;797086While I think Brad is wrong on the whole, OMG take away the dresses! I also think that age is a bit young to declare trans status.

Whether or not you want the kid to wear a dress isn't the point. If a parent decides something is inappropriate for their child, then they should say, sorry, and be done with it. And, yes, specifically with the age thing...a five year old isn't capable of making informed decisions about what socks to wear, much less if they're having issues with gender identity. This is an entirely different question if we're talking about a ten year old.

Quote from: Will;797087No, just lauding you for your consistency in presentation.

You're allowed to be stupid. It's okay.

And I still have no idea what this has to do with roleplaying games.

Quote from: Brad;797088And, yes, specifically with the age thing...a five year old isn't capable of making informed decisions about what socks to wear, much less if they're having issues with gender identity. This is an entirely different question if we're talking about a ten year old.

What is your basis for saying this?

Quote from: Emperor Norton;797086Eh, I personally think that that age is a bit young for trans.

I mean, my son likes dresses. He doesn't wear them out, but he would put on play dress dresses when he was younger in his room. My wife and I didn't really care if he wanted to do it, so we ended up just moving the play dress stuff into his room if he wanted to.

If he comes out to me when he is in his teens and thinks he is trans, I'll be there for him, but at the age he is now, its not that uncommon to experiment with identity like that.

While I think Brad is wrong on the whole, OMG take away the dresses! I also think that age is a bit young to declare trans status, unless there was extensive sessions done with a child psychologist with no vested interest into trans politics to back it up. Anyone who knows they are trans at preschool age is ridiculously rare.

QFT.

Quote from: Will;797090What is your basis for saying this?

A boy wanting to wear dresses doesn't make him transgendered...he could just like them. You start throwing labels around and putting people into groups before they're old enough to develop an identity, you're going to fuck them up for life. Actually I agree with Emperor Norton: if a five year old boy wants to wear a dress, wtf is it going to hurt? When I was five I wanted to wear a Spiderman costume 24/7. I wasn't labeled something other than a kid who liked Spiderman.

She might not turn out to be trans, perhaps it's a several year-long phase. But she definitely seems to be progressing in that direction.

But my starting point for mentioning it, in case anyone has forgotten, is 'my kids are dealing with these issues already.'


(Also, age 9 is too early for hormone therapy unless they are delaying puberty : http://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-teens-become-happy-healthy-young-adults/ )

Quote from: Brad;797093A boy wanting to wear dresses doesn't make him transgendered...he could just like them. You start throwing labels around and putting people into groups before they're old enough to develop an identity, you're going to fuck them up for life. Actually I agree with Emperor Norton: if a five year old boy wants to wear a dress, wtf is it going to hurt? When I was five I wanted to wear a Spiderman costume 24/7. I wasn't labeled something other than a kid who liked Spiderman.

Ok, yet again for the reading impaired:

Nobody is throwing labels on the person in question. Nobody is telling her she's transgendered. People are, in fact, taking a cautious 'let's see how things develop' approach without demanding she do one thing or another.

She started wearing dresses from an early age, consistently. She started demanding people refer to her as 'she.'


And as for asking about your basis for saying so... my kids are 6. Sometimes they make very intelligent decisions. Sometimes they don't. Gender identity quite often starts fairly early, and assuming that the parents are stupid/crazy or that they saw one trans-promoting psychiatrist is very stupid.

Quote from: Will;797096Nobody is throwing labels on the person in question. Nobody is telling her she's transgendered.

QuoteMy daughter had a trans girl in her class in preschool.

You just called him/her a "trans girl". Sorry, this is exactly what you're doing.