Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 19, 2023, 11:22:37 AM
Reading it right now. It's a blatant ripoff and the author even admits to this in the intro. Which... I mean, I give him credit for honesty after the author of Vampire: Undeath openly lied that he was being original when he obviously wrote a blatant ripoff. But it's still a blatant ripoff with a direct 1:1 correspondence between splats and mechanics that are renamed to avoid lawsuits. Everlasting was obviously a clone but the author of that tried very hard to make it distinct by using folklore as the basis for splats.

The renames aren't even very good, but feel arbitrary, random and torturous. Which is actually how the White Wolf games pick names, so I give the author credit for accurately mimicking that. But I hate that style of naming things. It's like how hack writers pick overly flowery words from thesaurus rather than using simple English.

No offense to the writer. It's his choice to write a ripoff and he admits this, so I can't blame him.

Sorry for the late reply.
Yeah, I just picked up these two. And you're not wrong. In some cases, it's virtually a pound-for-pound copy with some name changes. Masquerade - Charade!
As you pointed out, at least he admits that this is his 'own take' on a popular game of the 90s.
Just for my own personal preference, I'm not sure I like the black hack rules for a vampire game, but I'd have to try it out before making a proper assessment.

It's not bad at all but I think if you are going to do a game like this I'd like to see you add something new & cool as opposed to trying to just recreate the past.

I have to admit, shamefully, that I once did my own rename of the splats for an OSR thing in case anyone else wanted to do their own ripoffs. My intent was to wean disillusioned open-minded fans off their addiction to this tired outdated 90s IP and encourage them to make up their own stuff. I  tried picking names that feel like something real people would come up with, compared to whatever Rein-Hagen was smoking.

I checked out the author's blog, and I have to admit that he is way more charitable towards this IP than I am. Although his original ideas genuinely look interesting. He has a group of enlightened anarchists who run crime syndicates to destroy civilization from within so they can replace it with enlightened anarchy; they acknowledge this is evil and hate doing it, but believe it is necessary in service of their good ends. My approach by contrast was to make a cult of weresnakes who worship Apophis and seek to despoil civilization from within, opposed by a cult of were-salukis who worship Seth in his original incarnation as protector of Ra from Apophis.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2023, 11:05:19 AM
I have to admit, shamefully, that I once did my own rename of the splats for an OSR thing in case anyone else wanted to do their own ripoffs. My intent was to wean disillusioned open-minded fans off their addiction to this tired outdated 90s IP and encourage them to make up their own stuff. I  tried picking names that feel like something real people would come up with, compared to whatever Rein-Hagen was smoking.

I checked out the author's blog, and I have to admit that he is way more charitable towards this IP than I am. Although his original ideas genuinely look interesting. He has a group of enlightened anarchists who run crime syndicates to destroy civilization from within so they can replace it with enlightened anarchy; they acknowledge this is evil and hate doing it, but believe it is necessary in service of their good ends. My approach by contrast was to make a cult of weresnakes who worship Apophis and seek to despoil civilization from within, opposed by a cult of were-salukis who worship Seth in his original incarnation as protector of Ra from Apophis.

To be fair I quite like what you came up with as those clans do feel like you've put your own stamp on them so-to-speak. So good job.

Yeah indeed. In fairness to the author he's totally held his hands up and said, 'My dudes, I'm making my own OSR product that is effectively VTM with some extra bits'. Which is cool. As long as you give an appropriate nod I think that's fair enough.

My own take (that I've been writing for a while on and off) definitely has some influences from Vampire & especially The Sabbat. But there's a large influence from pop culture vamp films that I loved from the 80s. Plus, I wanted to make vamps scary again (apres Twilight). But I have a Lovecraftian origin and instead of different tribes, they are divided into sects. Although, there are lone wolves as well, etc.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 19, 2023, 11:22:37 AM
Reading it right now. It's a blatant ripoff and the author even admits to this in the intro. Which... I mean, I give him credit for honesty after the author of Vampire: Undeath openly lied that he was being original when he obviously wrote a blatant ripoff. But it's still a blatant ripoff with a direct 1:1 correspondence between splats and mechanics that are renamed to avoid lawsuits. Everlasting was obviously a clone but the author of that tried very hard to make it distinct by using folklore as the basis for splats.

The renames aren't even very good, but feel arbitrary, random and torturous. Which is actually how the White Wolf games pick names, so I give the author credit for accurately mimicking that. But I hate that style of naming things. It's like how hack writers pick overly flowery words from thesaurus rather than using simple English.

No offense to the writer. It's his choice to write a ripoff and he admits this, so I can't blame him.

If you like fail forward mechanics... I don't.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 20, 2023, 12:43:34 PM
Yeah indeed. In fairness to the author he's totally held his hands up and said, 'My dudes, I'm making my own OSR product that is effectively VTM with some extra bits'. Which is cool. As long as you give an appropriate nod I think that's fair enough.

My own take (that I've been writing for a while on and off) definitely has some influences from Vampire & especially The Sabbat. But there's a large influence from pop culture vamp films that I loved from the 80s. Plus, I wanted to make vamps scary again (apres Twilight). But I have a Lovecraftian origin and instead of different tribes, they are divided into sects. Although, there are lone wolves as well, etc.

One approach I took in my ultra kitchen sink setting was that every so in history often a founder vampire pops up, the first of its strain that wasn't turned by an older vampire. Each strain has different traits, sometimes wildly different traits, based on the proclivities and neuroses of their founder. Different powers, weaknesses, rituals for recruiting, types of fangs/diets, ways to employ familiars, etc. Every aspect of how they work is selected to best suit whatever theme I'm going for with that strain.

To use "shadow vampires" as an example, one idea I had to differentiate them is that they drain lifeforce in the form of color. Their victims grow pale, then transparent, then finally shatter like glass. (If you've ever watched Masked Rider, this is how fangires kill their victims.)

The urban fantasy genre has limitless potential.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 20, 2023, 01:39:20 PM
If you like fail forward mechanics... I don't.

That's fair. I think the problem is the way it is structured rather than the idea behind it. The idea of fail forward arose as a solution for all those times groups have gotten frustrated when a game has ground to a halt because of a bad roll. An ancient and notorious blind spot in ttrpg design is giving GMs tools for handling negative outcomes and ensuring that the momentum of the adventure doesn't grind to a halt. Adventures are typically written with the assumption that rolls never fail and don't explain how to run the adventure if rolls fail. One way I've seen to reinterpret fail forward is as "instead of pass/fail, you pass/pass. A trap is either disarmed or triggered. Whether you passed well or poorly, you still passed."

But I digress.

I'm looking at his Hedgerow Hack which on first blush would be his Changeling ripoff, but it looks like a very different direction than CtD or CtL.

I might give it a shot.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2023, 01:51:04 PMThat's fair. I think the problem is the way it is structured rather than the idea behind it. The idea of fail forward arose as a solution for all those times groups have gotten frustrated when a game has ground to a halt because of a bad roll. An ancient and notorious blind spot in ttrpg design is giving GMs tools for handling negative outcomes and ensuring that the momentum of the adventure doesn't grind to a halt. Adventures are typically written with the assumption that rolls never fail and don't explain how to run the adventure if rolls fail. One way I've seen to reinterpret fail forward is as "instead of pass/fail, you pass/pass. A trap is either disarmed or triggered. Whether you passed well or poorly, you still passed."

But I digress.

I love fail forward myself, and can't go back to the days of "you miss, I miss, he misses, roll again". Or worse: the old 90's Perception tests that allowed everybody and their dog to keep rolling until whatever the GM wants to be found is found. I got little time these days, and Fail Forward as a concept fits my needs like a glove.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2023, 01:51:04 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 20, 2023, 12:43:34 PM
Yeah indeed. In fairness to the author he's totally held his hands up and said, 'My dudes, I'm making my own OSR product that is effectively VTM with some extra bits'. Which is cool. As long as you give an appropriate nod I think that's fair enough.

My own take (that I've been writing for a while on and off) definitely has some influences from Vampire & especially The Sabbat. But there's a large influence from pop culture vamp films that I loved from the 80s. Plus, I wanted to make vamps scary again (apres Twilight). But I have a Lovecraftian origin and instead of different tribes, they are divided into sects. Although, there are lone wolves as well, etc.

One approach I took in my ultra kitchen sink setting was that every so in history often a founder vampire pops up, the first of its strain that wasn't turned by an older vampire. Each strain has different traits, sometimes wildly different traits, based on the proclivities and neuroses of their founder. Different powers, weaknesses, rituals for recruiting, types of fangs/diets, ways to employ familiars, etc. Every aspect of how they work is selected to best suit whatever theme I'm going for with that strain.

To use "shadow vampires" as an example, one idea I had to differentiate them is that they drain lifeforce in the form of color. Their victims grow pale, then transparent, then finally shatter like glass. (If you've ever watched Masked Rider, this is how fangires kill their victims.)

Actually, that's what I'm aiming for as well a kitchen sink approach. Basically, I wanted the player to be able to play any type of vampire they have ever seen.

While keeping the meta-plot simple and at a distance. So if you belong to a Sect, you'll have your own beliefs, rituals, goals, and abilities. But it's up to the players to dial these up or down or even ignore them.

I wanted to keep things at a more local level without imposing an intimidating worldview on the players (and GM) which imo, which made VtM exceedingly messy, contradictory, and virtually unplayable as written. But I also want to keep the PCs in the dark as much as possible so they know very little of their own existence. Even if their Sect claims to have all the answers.

At the core, it's very Lovecraftian but the players won't have a clue or if they do it would never be a deep understanding. I felt by explaining everything like they eventually did in VtM all the mystery was lost. Also Vamps in the world are rare so the PCs will feel isolated - until they run into more of their kind.

Quote from: PulpHerb on April 20, 2023, 02:01:15 PM
I'm looking at his Hedgerow Hack which on first blush would be his Changeling ripoff, but it looks like a very different direction than CtD or CtL.

I might give it a shot.

I'm checking out the Hedgerow Hack to see where the author goes with it. It has nothing in common with either iteration of Changeling. This is a 100% original game.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 20, 2023, 02:42:36 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2023, 01:51:04 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 20, 2023, 12:43:34 PM
Yeah indeed. In fairness to the author he's totally held his hands up and said, 'My dudes, I'm making my own OSR product that is effectively VTM with some extra bits'. Which is cool. As long as you give an appropriate nod I think that's fair enough.

My own take (that I've been writing for a while on and off) definitely has some influences from Vampire & especially The Sabbat. But there's a large influence from pop culture vamp films that I loved from the 80s. Plus, I wanted to make vamps scary again (apres Twilight). But I have a Lovecraftian origin and instead of different tribes, they are divided into sects. Although, there are lone wolves as well, etc.

One approach I took in my ultra kitchen sink setting was that every so in history often a founder vampire pops up, the first of its strain that wasn't turned by an older vampire. Each strain has different traits, sometimes wildly different traits, based on the proclivities and neuroses of their founder. Different powers, weaknesses, rituals for recruiting, types of fangs/diets, ways to employ familiars, etc. Every aspect of how they work is selected to best suit whatever theme I'm going for with that strain.

To use "shadow vampires" as an example, one idea I had to differentiate them is that they drain lifeforce in the form of color. Their victims grow pale, then transparent, then finally shatter like glass. (If you've ever watched Masked Rider, this is how fangires kill their victims.)

Actually, that's what I'm aiming for as well a kitchen sink approach. Basically, I wanted the player to be able to play any type of vampire they have ever seen.

While keeping the meta-plot simple and at a distance. So if you belong to a Sect, you'll have your own beliefs, rituals, goals, and abilities. But it's up to the players to dial these up or down or even ignore them.

I wanted to keep things at a more local level without imposing an intimidating worldview on the players (and GM) which imo, which made VtM exceedingly messy, contradictory, and virtually unplayable as written. But I also want to keep the PCs in the dark as much as possible so they know very little of their own existence. Even if their Sect claims to have all the answers.

At the core, it's very Lovecraftian but the players won't have a clue or if they do it would never be a deep understanding. I felt by explaining everything like they eventually did in VtM all the mystery was lost. Also Vamps in the world are rare so the PCs will feel isolated - until they run into more of their kind.

There's this cyberpunk crpg in development called Vampire Syndicate: Gangs of Moonfall. It's initially about cyberpunk gangland, but the PC eventually gets the option to join one of several vampire cults. The vampires are... well, clearly vampires, but there are details involving Lovecraft stuff and magical rituals. Perhaps the most obvious is that the PC has to perform a magical ritual to become a vampire, rather than being infected with vampirism by another vampire. You might find it interesting.

I think I've used ritual self-transformation two or three times in my worldbuilding notes, although I don't go into much detail. I included becoming a vampire by willingly swearing an oath to the dark powers, but that was for founders rather than vampires in general. Deliberately performing a ritual to become a vampire lends itself to a very different dynamic than being abducted and turned against one's will as is usually the case in vampire stories. Even familiars who willingly serve vampires in the hopes of becoming one have no guarantee that their master will hold up its end of the bargain. But putting the choice, the power to enact it, entirely in the hands of the pledge...

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2023, 11:05:19 AM
I have to admit, shamefully, that I once did my own rename of the splats for an OSR thing in case anyone else wanted to do their own ripoffs. My intent was to wean disillusioned open-minded fans off their addiction to this tired outdated 90s IP and encourage them to make up their own stuff. I  tried picking names that feel like something real people would come up with, compared to whatever Rein-Hagen was smoking.

I checked out the author's blog, and I have to admit that he is way more charitable towards this IP than I am. Although his original ideas genuinely look interesting. He has a group of enlightened anarchists who run crime syndicates to destroy civilization from within so they can replace it with enlightened anarchy; they acknowledge this is evil and hate doing it, but believe it is necessary in service of their good ends. My approach by contrast was to make a cult of weresnakes who worship Apophis and seek to despoil civilization from within, opposed by a cult of were-salukis who worship Seth in his original incarnation as protector of Ra from Apophis.

Neat! Don't mind if I do steal it whole.

If it wasn't part of the overly crunchy Chronicles lines I'd recommend Requiem. No giant metaplot that you have to master or some player will complain. Vampires are powerful but pretty terrible by default (no "I'm on the path of doing whatever is convenient"), lots of things make sense (all vampires have some night-sense, older Vampires get weird memory wise).

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 20, 2023, 11:05:19 AM
I have to admit, shamefully, that I once did my own rename of the splats for an OSR thing in case anyone else wanted to do their own ripoffs. My intent was to wean disillusioned open-minded fans off their addiction to this tired outdated 90s IP and encourage them to make up their own stuff. I  tried picking names that feel like something real people would come up with, compared to whatever Rein-Hagen was smoking.

This is excellent work! Thanks for that.

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on April 20, 2023, 05:44:40 PM
If it wasn't part of the overly crunchy Chronicles lines I'd recommend Requiem. No giant metaplot that you have to master or some player will complain. Vampires are powerful but pretty terrible by default (no "I'm on the path of doing whatever is convenient"), lots of things make sense (all vampires have some night-sense, older Vampires get weird memory wise).

If you need a different system, then I'd recommend Feed, Undying, or Vampire City from earlier in this thread. They don't have default settings, so you can easily adapt Requiem or whatever.

Looked through drivethrurpg sorting by date to find some new titles since my last additions to the list. Here they are:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/353122/SHIVER-RPG-Core-Book

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/431221/I-Was-A-Teenage-Creature

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/431567/StokerVerse-Roleplaying-Game

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/426887/What-lies-beneath-the-darkness?filters=0_2140_0_0_0

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/426074/Kith-and-Kin-Vampires?filters=0_2140_0_0_0

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/423246/Progeny-of-Blood-and-Shadow-OneShot-RPG-Rules?filters=0_2140_0_0_0

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/421803/Bloodless?filters=0_2140_0_0_0

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/415536/Bellum-A-Solo-Game-about-Vampires?filters=0_2140_0_0_0

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/409614/Blood-A-Little-Live-Action-Game-about-Vampires?filters=0_2140_0_0_0

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/355497/Blackened?src=also_purchased&filters=0_2140_0_0_0

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/346886/Gaia-Awakening--Core-Rulebook?src=also_purchased&filters=0_2140_0_0_0

Thanks for those, man.

Stokerverse looks interesting!