And yet Pepsi dethroned Coke, and Red Bull had to give ground to Monster. There's nothing inevitable or permanent about market dominance. At some point, there will be a flip, and some new thing will be the new, more popular thing, and the other thing will be seen as old. I have no idea if that's going to happen to D&D any time soon; such things are unpredictable.

Quote from: pawsplay on November 29, 2023, 08:29:49 PM
And yet Pepsi dethroned Coke, and Red Bull had to give ground to Monster. There's nothing inevitable or permanent about market dominance. At some point, there will be a flip, and some new thing will be the new, more popular thing, and the other thing will be seen as old. I have no idea if that's going to happen to D&D any time soon; such things are unpredictable.

I think the dethroning of D&D can have two forms:

1. As the cool mainstream thing...I think it already is in progress.
2. As the core of the RPG hobby. I honestly think the GenX cohort that started with B/X and came back with 3.x (assuming they ever left) will need to pass first unless more stay from the current fad (which does seem to run about a couple of decades younger) than did after the early 80s round by a large margin. If they do I'd put my money either one of a: Critical Roll's game, b: Cypher by Monte Cook, or c: PBtA, probably centered on Dungeon World.  Pathfinder is too tied to the 3.x world to survive a collapse in D&D like it did for 4e. Of my three, I have different reasons for each...I'm just not sure which factor wins.

Quote from: pawsplay on November 29, 2023, 08:29:49 PM
And yet Pepsi dethroned Coke, and Red Bull had to give ground to Monster. There's nothing inevitable or permanent about market dominance. At some point, there will be a flip, and some new thing will be the new, more popular thing, and the other thing will be seen as old. I have no idea if that's going to happen to D&D any time soon; such things are unpredictable.

Oh, and right now Coke has two of the top three soda brands and five of the top ten. Pepsi has two. On the brand icon, Coke or Pepsi, Coke is #1 again.

I think Coke/Pepsi is more a D&D/PF type thing with Pepsi's brief dominance a kind of 4e Coke era.

The real surprise on the top 10 is Diet Coke is 3 while Diet Pepsi if 7, barely beating out Coke Zero at 8.  Pepsi Zero didn't crack the top 10.

Lack of Coke Zero in top 3 is truly proof America needs to be destroyed.

Quote from: PulpHerb on November 29, 2023, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on November 29, 2023, 08:29:49 PM
And yet Pepsi dethroned Coke, and Red Bull had to give ground to Monster. There's nothing inevitable or permanent about market dominance. At some point, there will be a flip, and some new thing will be the new, more popular thing, and the other thing will be seen as old. I have no idea if that's going to happen to D&D any time soon; such things are unpredictable.

Oh, and right now Coke has two of the top three soda brands and five of the top ten. Pepsi has two. On the brand icon, Coke or Pepsi, Coke is #1 again.

I think Coke/Pepsi is more a D&D/PF type thing with Pepsi's brief dominance a kind of 4e Coke era.

The real surprise on the top 10 is Diet Coke is 3 while Diet Pepsi if 7, barely beating out Coke Zero at 8.  Pepsi Zero didn't crack the top 10.

That tracks. One of several possible scenarios.

Quote from: mudbanks on January 14, 2023, 10:06:48 AM
Looking for a good alternative to VTM. In particular, I want something that isn't very rules-heavy, and it must be vampire-themed (so no generic systems). Any recommendations?

I worked on the 5th Edition of Vampire, then when there was a whole harassment campaign that tanked the game, I put all the ideas we didn't get to use into Demon City.

It is set up as a regular horror game, but it has explicit rules for a mode where everyone's a vampire or other monster ("The Hidden") and there are specific rules for vampire PCs.

https://diyrpgproductionsstore.com/products/demon-city-the-ultimate-horror-rpg

The pdf is available, the hardcover should be out soon.

Wine Dark Nights is another one that is new to add to the list.

I find it amusing that a thread about undead was just necroed

There's an indie game titled Elegy on Drivethrurpg and itch.io. It's very derivative of White Wolf, even using the same social structure and other ideas. It has a wildly different way of structuring superpowers, but that's the extent of its originality.

Quote from: Batjon on June 24, 2024, 05:41:27 AMWine Dark Nights is another one that is new to add to the list.

Researching that now.

It's hugely derivative of V5 in the way it handles hunger dice and humanity. Basically you have two sets of skills, predator and prey, which humanity and hunger then modify. Feed does more or less the same thing, but different: a PC's hunger ceiling is determined by the ratio of human and vampiric traits.

I suggest looking at Palladium's NIGHTBANE for setting inspiration and ideas regardless of whatever system you choose.

https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/730-Nightbane-Role-Playing-Game.html


Also, "vampire rpg" means many different things in 2024 after decades of vamp movies, books and TV shows so only YOU know what kind of vamp campaign you wish to run.

AKA, there might not be a RPG that's exact to your vision.

Thus, the key question is WHAT system would best fit YOUR vision and the enjoyment of YOUR players?

Quote from: Spinachcat on June 24, 2024, 07:07:59 PMI suggest looking at Palladium's NIGHTBANE for setting inspiration and ideas regardless of whatever system you choose.

https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/730-Nightbane-Role-Playing-Game.html


Also, "vampire rpg" means many different things in 2024 after decades of vamp movies, books and TV shows so only YOU know what kind of vamp campaign you wish to run.

AKA, there might not be a RPG that's exact to your vision.

Thus, the key question is WHAT system would best fit YOUR vision and the enjoyment of YOUR players?

Most of these are heartbreakers of V5, not particularly original games. I've noticed an uptick in them since the late 2010s and I can't figure out why.

If you want something that supports creativity, then my best suggestions are Night's Black Agents, Feed, and Vampire City. They're toolkits that let you invent your own settings. NBA lets you play hunters, while the other two play vamps.

Given how Paradox is currently trying to drive Onyx Path (the original creators of the WoD. Yes the original company was called White Wolf but that was bought and the old writers reformed under Onyx Path) out of business by preventing them from releasing any more WoD books outside of a small handful..

Onyx Path has created yet another (this will now be the third, after Chronicles of Darkness) Modern Supernatural Horror game where you play the Monsters called "Curseborn".

Curseborn has been in development for a few years now and a playtest ashcan edition is up on Drive thru for like 5 bucks.

All signs point to this being Onyx's new big line they plan to support. They're going full bore to compete with their old product.

As for Curseborn itself, it sounds interesting. The Curseborn are broken into "Families" that all have similarities...

The Dead, The Hungry, The Primal, The Outsiders, and a few others. One is specifically for Mages as well.

Within those families will be separate lineages, like "Bathory" within the Hungry, "Lyka" within the Primal.

So it's leaning more towards lots of customization but also giving the greater "societies" within for those who want to focus on that.

I'm looking forward to it considering what a disappointment 5th edition under Paradox has been.

nevermind

I'm gonna need to go back through the thread and assemble a list of the store pages posted thus far, and post anything I recall missing from my own library.

There seems to be an uptick in heartbreakers in the last few years. Bellum, Elegy, Mr Vampire, etc are all highly derivative of WoD more than they are of anything else. I find it really frustrating, because vampire fiction is much larger, including ttrpgs from the 90s and 2000s.

For example, most of these games use the same Ricean-derived template for romanticized vampires. They even use the blood bond mechanic from WoD. While most ideas in WoD are derived from other sources, like stakes only pinning vamps (this goes back to folklore and 40s movies at least), the blood bond mechanic of becoming infatuated with a vamp after drinking their blood three times seems to be unique to WoD. I haven't found anything that uses it prior to WoD. It's a dead ringer that indicates an author's influence. By contrast, Everlasting uses a similar but distinct mechanic, making it more distinct than just another heartbreaker even when it was written by a WW freelancer. Other writers should take note.

Honestly, I'm not thrilled for anything that isn't a toolkit. When you make a single setting game, then you don't address the problems with WoD that killed it like its bloated lore that intimidated new players.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 26, 2024, 10:21:48 AMwith WoD that killed it like its bloated lore that intimidated new players.

That's not at all what killed WoD. Not one damn single bit.