Quote from: PulpHerb on July 30, 2024, 01:14:31 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 29, 2024, 11:45:47 AMYeah, I'm surprised that there isn't more urban fantasy ttrpgs given the popularity of urban fantasy in prose and other passive media.

I think if you look at the trends in UF literature you might see why.

Every year urban fantasy seems to merge more and more with paranormal romance, to the point I'm now seeing authors in the genre complain about it. There are authors who think they are the same thing. More than once I've been burned by it.

So, if a written genre is tending romance it's skewing to an audience than isn't going to be very RPG oriented, especially more traditional style RPGs.  I think what we do get is hangover from WB series and earlier authors starting with Emma Bull and Charles De Lint and ending with Jim Butcher and Simon Green.

That makes sense. I've noticed that romance is eclipsing pretty much every genre lately and every other cover is a trashy romance novel cover that centers on a muscular man's torso with his head and legs out of frame. Even non-romance books are given trashy romance novel styled covers!

Re: trashy romance and it's rise.

I attribute it to the rise of childless cat ladies. Wine boxes and trashy romance novels are part of the package.

Unfortunately, urban fantasy has been eaten by the same CCLs which means most young men are steering the frack clear of it and that means the lion's share of potential RPG players is steering clear of it and the only audience for an UFRPG are either grognards who likely grew up on WoD or the woke storygamers who don't give a crap about anything other than having their special snowflake ego stroked.

I think there's some room in the form of, say, something in the vein of Larry Correia's 'Monster Hunter International' but now you're in "play the hunters" and not "play the monsters" territory which we've already discussed.

Relatedly, the Urban Fantasy that hasn't gone trash romance definitely has a more traditionalist and conservative bent to it (see Dresden, Monster Hunter, etc.) so to snag the people still reading the non-romance UF for a potential RPG you're going to need to skew at least old-school liberal (i.e. what liberalism looked like in the 80's/90's) in terms of the setting's ethos which would probably limit a lot of the options Box is looking for in an RPG.

Paranormal investigation is another genre I like. Unfortunately, it's dominated by Cthulhu mythos games. If you like traditional horror like Chill, wacko conspiracy thriller like Dark•Matter or Conspiracy X, Hanna-Barbera cartoons, immortal adventures like Nephilim, or Tales from the Crypt (there was a Masterbook world book for it), etc, then you're shit out of luck.

There's only so many times you can play the same old "investigate, go crazy, mutate, die" loop before getting sick of it. I've played The Song of Saya, I've read Uzumaki, yadda yadda, there's basically nothing left. I'm burnt out on anything Cthulhu-related.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 30, 2024, 05:51:12 PMThere's only so many times you can play the same old "investigate, go crazy, mutate, die" loop before getting sick of it.

Ever played Dark Heresy? It's the far-future grimdark version of that path.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 30, 2024, 05:26:24 PMRelatedly, the Urban Fantasy that hasn't gone trash romance definitely has a more traditionalist and conservative bent to it (see Dresden, Monster Hunter, etc.)

Is Dresden Files still popular? We tried the Fate RPG when it came out (2000-something?) Impressions ranged from "Meh" to "Fate sucks." Regardless, it was nothing that couldn't be done with Hero or Mutants and Masterminds.

Quote from: Aglondir on July 30, 2024, 11:29:37 PMIs Dresden Files still popular? We tried the Fate RPG when it came out (2000-something?) Impressions ranged from "Meh" to "Fate sucks." Regardless, it was nothing that couldn't be done with Hero or Mutants and Masterminds.

The books still are, though it's been a bummer having to deal with Butcher letting the series lie stagnant with little progress the past decade. We used to get a book roughly every year, but the pace of new releases has slowed way down to a new story every 4-5 years. I'm starting to have doubts that it'll ever be finished. The way things are going, it could take another 30 years for it to reach the conclusion.

The RPG doesn't have much momentum these days. It didn't help that Evil Hat put out a second version (Dresden Files Accelerated) that split the audience. The first game is a bit of a cluttered mess, and the second one is so stripped down and wildly unbalanced that I can't recommend it without heavy house rules. As you said, you're probably better off just using M&M and creating rough templates of any supernatural creatures you plan to use. Neither of the DF games will convert people who don't care for Fate in the first place. Cinematic Unisystem would likely be another good option.

For WoD-style genres, I'd much prefer a post-apocalyptic setting in which the monsters operate completely out in the open, e.g. downtrodden humans huddled in the fortified domains of vampire warlords, who fight each other for control of territory, while werewolf biker gangs haunt the badlands. 

Quote from: Rhymer88 on July 31, 2024, 05:20:35 AMFor WoD-style genres, I'd much prefer a post-apocalyptic setting in which the monsters operate completely out in the open, e.g. downtrodden humans huddled in the fortified domains of vampire warlords, who fight each other for control of territory, while werewolf biker gangs haunt the badlands.

I believe Night Shift has that as one of their four sample settings.

Quote from: mudbanks on January 14, 2023, 10:06:48 AMLooking for a good alternative to VTM. In particular, I want something that isn't very rules-heavy, and it must be vampire-themed (so no generic systems). Any recommendations?

*in my best norm macdonald voice* the sweet cold relief of death!

Quote from: Brand55 on July 31, 2024, 01:32:36 AM

Quote from: Aglondir on July 30, 2024, 11:29:37 PMIs Dresden Files still popular? We tried the Fate RPG when it came out (2000-something?) Impressions ranged from "Meh" to "Fate sucks." Regardless, it was nothing that couldn't be done with Hero or Mutants and Masterminds.

The books still are, though it's been a bummer having to deal with Butcher letting the series lie stagnant with little progress the past decade. We used to get a book roughly every year, but the pace of new releases has slowed way down to a new story every 4-5 years. I'm starting to have doubts that it'll ever be finished. The way things are going, it could take another 30 years for it to reach the conclusion.

The RPG doesn't have much momentum these days. It didn't help that Evil Hat put out a second version (Dresden Files Accelerated) that split the audience. The first game is a bit of a cluttered mess, and the second one is so stripped down and wildly unbalanced that I can't recommend it without heavy house rules. As you said, you're probably better off just using M&M and creating rough templates of any supernatural creatures you plan to use. Neither of the DF games will convert people who don't care for Fate in the first place. Cinematic Unisystem would likely be another good option.

Sounds like Evil Hat made a bad thing worse. That's unfortunate. Checking their webpage, I don't even see it for sale.


Cinematic Unisystem: That would work well. Maybe even better than Hero or M&M.

Quote from: Aglondir on August 01, 2024, 01:14:26 AMCinematic Unisystem: That would work well. Maybe even better than Hero or M&M.

Yeah, I decided some years ago when I was running the original Dresden Files game that if I ever ran another campaign in that setting, I'd just use Angel + Ghosts of Albion and fill in the cracks as needed. Angel gives you the basics of supernatural creature creation, and GoA has a freeform magic system that could be adapted to Dresden's magic system fairly easily.

I really loved the WitchCraft setting for Unisystem, but since the owner of the IP is dealing with health problems and real life issues, the Unisystem IP is just sitting fallow and can't maintain its community. C.J. Carella himself tried and failed to negotiate the rights for a new edition. This shit is precisely why we need copyright reform.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:32:42 PMI really loved the WitchCraft setting for Unisystem, but since the owner of the IP is dealing with health problems and real life issues, the Unisystem IP is just sitting fallow and can't maintain its community. C.J. Carella himself tried and failed to negotiate the rights for a new edition. This shit is precisely why we need copyright reform.

I'm surprised that no one has made an open-source clone yet.

Quote from: Aglondir on August 01, 2024, 01:40:10 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:32:42 PMI really loved the WitchCraft setting for Unisystem, but since the owner of the IP is dealing with health problems and real life issues, the Unisystem IP is just sitting fallow and can't maintain its community. C.J. Carella himself tried and failed to negotiate the rights for a new edition. This shit is precisely why we need copyright reform.

I'm surprised that no one has made an open-source clone yet.

It's too bad. With some modernization/cleanup (e.g., fixing dex uber stat) it would be great.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 30, 2024, 05:26:24 PMUnfortunately, urban fantasy has been eaten by the same CCLs which means most young men are steering the frack clear of it and that means the lion's share of potential RPG players is steering clear of it and the only audience for an UFRPG are either grognards who likely grew up on WoD or the woke storygamers who don't give a crap about anything other than having their special snowflake ego stroked.

--snip--

I think there's some room in the form of, say, something in the vein of Larry Correia's 'Monster Hunter International' but now you're in "play the hunters" and not "play the monsters" territory which we've already discussed.

A lot of UF predate WoD. Most people consider the Borderlands shared anthology as the point when modern UF becomes identifiable and the first of those were 1986. Emma Bull's War for the Oaks was 1987. Charles DeLint hit with Moonheart in 1984.

Books like that is why I goth C. J. Carella's Witchcraft although it's not the best fit as the strong fae presence isn't modelled.

I'd love to get back that style even more than Butcher and Green's detective noir crossover.

But this "everything is a romance" is killing things.