Not counting dragonborn from 4e and 5e, have you ever offered lizard men as a playable race in a fantasy game? Would you?
Did anyone take the option? How did it go? Did it lead to any interesting RP?
I think Alshard ff (saurus) and Sword World 2.0 (lildrake) both have lizard-men as player option. Radiance and Legend too.
And Wildblades for Instant Fuzion.
I had several campaigns where they were a playable race (I also liked using kobolds in my campaigns). It generally went well as long as they fit in the setting okay.
Yes. In 3.0 when savage species came out. We had one that was a savage (bbn, ranger, something. It was a long time ago). It worked pretty well. We roll-played towns people not being okay with a "man-eater" coming into town and trying to buy gear. We had him have to balance his pride with the convenience of pretending to be another player's 'monstrous servant.' We also tried to role play up his having a completely different mindset. Not just "why are we burying their (or our) dead? That's perfectly good meat." but also that he'd have a completely different goal structure and what he would or wouldn't consider reasonable.
We also had a bizaare one where we had a two-headed half-lizardman, half elf maiden (we decided that they were stitched together by a mad wizard). Probably house ruled. But that was our barbarian/wizard. Very unoptimized but fun.
I've played in a few settings where it was an option, but can't recall anyone ever choosing to play a lizard.
One of the characters in our current 5e group (playing Razor Coast) is a Lizardman. Home brewed from one of the other races (a type of dwarf?) with light modification. Mechanically it works fine.
In terms of impacting the game, his presence does add some interesting twists. First, he is the Ship's Cook, but we rarely eat anything he has prepared... There was a kerfuffle at character creation when one of the other players was adamant that his PC wouldn't associate with an eater of sentients. He got over it eventually, but changed his character for non-related reasons a little while later.
The Lizardman is largely treated like a savage by people in game (there is a Lizardman community in the campaign as written) and this has had effect when attending social functions, for example.
He also wants to collect the bodies of fallen enemies, which we are fine with for non-humanoids, but it generates some good inter-PC friction when he wants to eat members of more 'normal' PC races. He also doesn't see the value of money (shiny trinkets you can't eat or hit someone with - what's the point of those?) which is amusing to the rest of the characters but we don't let him fall behind on kit simply for group survivability (the Ship's Captain usually buys things for him and often we all chip in since his share of the treasure is split between everyone else).
It adds colour for minimal cost.
I've played non-standard races in the past (a wemic whose best friend was a kobold was my favourite) and they can be a lot of fun if you put a little effort into making them more than just a human in a funny suit. Personally I find more extreme races easier to role play than the vanilla fantasy races as the increased difference makes them more distinct - I find it gives me something more concrete to work with.
I'm in the process of rebooting my game after a year long hiatus. For the first time in one of my games, one of the racial choices is going to be lizardman. It fits the geographic starting point and also campaign memory (the players --everyone gets new characters-- have had dealings with lizardmen before).
But I also made goblin available (and also for the first time). Two players are jumping at the chance. So we'll see.
They were a playable race in Hollow World. They were powerful if you were running a game for 1st and 2nd level characters. Of course, in the extreme long run, they hit level limits. In what I consider the golden range of play, levels 3-8, they had some substantial advantages but nothing game-breaking.
ACKS offers the Thrassian Gladiator as a playable class, Thrassians being a race of lizardmen in ACKS' default Auran Empire setting. I've previously had them available, but they don't exist in my current campaign, and no one picked one up when they were available.
In Earthdawn, the lizardmen-like t'skrang feature prominently in Barsaive as the main traders and movers of goods along the Serpent River. There are several different houses that vie for control of the Serpent River including House Ishkarat, House Syrtis, House V'strimon, House K'tenshin, and House T'kambras. The t'skrang are a cultured people who live for sailing, swimming, barter, acrobatic swordplay, acerbic wit, trade wars, and political intrigue. In Prelude to War and Barsaive at War, all hell breaks loose along the Serpent River when House K'tenshin allies with the Theran Empire, forcing House V'strimon and the Throal Empire into an alliance and bringing all-out war to the Serpent River.
In Shaintar, the lizardmen-like dregordians have their own country in Dregordia and are some of the few people to live in the Serpent Marshes. In Shaintar, the Dregrodias are primordial creatures trying to control an inner rage, aligning them much more closer to D&D lizardmen.
I have Thrassians in my own ACKS game. They're not really popular for some reason.
It's been a long while since I ran it, but the Yrth setting for Gurps has Lizardmen as an option and I've 2 players run them at different times. The are unusual, but integrated into at least some areas, so while they stood out, they weren't treated as monsters. At least that's how I ran things, though it's also my recollection.
Straight lizardmen, strong and stealthy but no powers, don't seem all that popular IME.
Wayback when I allowed just about any sort of creature in my games (I'd been reading the Arduin books); we had centaurs and Phraints and vampires and a robot but no lizardmen.
I had them on offer in a WFRP adventure set in Lustria bit no one bit.
I've been thinking about adding playable serpent men to our DCC game but that would pretty much be like letting them play Drow.
Yes, a few flavors.
A player even had me run a solo game just so he could try being a TFT Reptile Man, as they start out very strong but stigmatized. He had fun going on a rampage for a while.
In another games there were some Reptile Man wizards, who were cool. Quite strong but on the outside of society, working with trusted friends who gained valuable allies but also extra shares of trouble.
The main issues tend to be social, particularly when the reptiles are a minority who are individually dangerous - there tended to be a mutual mistrust, outside the party, anyway. Of course, they can be invented in various ways, but there's a natural tendency for humans to fear or distrust them.
It's different when in a mostly-reptilian nations. I've had some of those in TFT and GURPS, and also in a game based on the computer game nations in Dominions, where there are the C'tis, who have a few species and are a pseudo-Egyptian nation with a sophisticated culture and powerful necromantic skills, poisons, and in some cases a horrible plague that they themselves are immune to, and not as physically dominant individually. Having a reptile nation turns the species xenophobia on its head with regards to humans.
I think it's most interesting if the designer/GM come up with what the differences are both socially and in terms of how they think and feel and experience life, rather than just having them be a special effect but not thinking about how they're really different from humans.
I had a player play a lizard man in my Runequest (rules only, no Glorantha) campaign. Did fine.
I've had lizard men at my table in D&D 3.5.
Generally I haven't had too many players get worked up over heavy duty immersion that wanted to give it a go, and the players I've had who liked thinking a lot of heavy character thought stuff generally were good table-gamers, meaning they didn't stick their character to deep into other players fun unless invited.
So, no. No troubles.
It's almost always an option in my games; if lizard men exist in the setting, they're playable, and if I designed the setting there's lizard men in it. So far, I've had very few players. Certainly, any D&D game I run is going to allow lizard men PCs, especially since they're considered a staple Spelljammer race.
My Wandering Stars setting has the Sauren, that are lizard/dinosaur/dragon men. Last time I ran the game, I had one player take me up on it, playing a Sauren wizard engineer.
The native Venusians in my Cascade City setting are more straight up lizard men, but I haven't run a game in it yet-- and if I do, I'm likely to limit PCs to humans or possibly even Earthlings.
The first D&D novel, Quag Keep had one.
I'd have allowed it in D&D, but no one was interested. I'd have allowed it in Runequest too. It wouldn't be advantageous since lizard people are a weaker than humans species, but I'd have allowed it. Nobody ever asked. My wife did run Donn the Duck, a Gloranthan Duck from Sartar who talked like Donald Duck and became a Wroon Pwriest of Humakt.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;873262Not counting dragonborn from 4e and 5e, have you ever offered lizard men as a playable race in a fantasy game? Would you?
Yes and yes.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;873262Did anyone take the option? How did it go? Did it lead to any interesting RP?
No one bit, which I'm assuming (and I'll state straight out, I could be dead wrong) that it was due to the inherent inhumanity of the species, and the perceived inability to function in a city environment (actually, I would have set aside a 'lizardman' section for when they come to trade.)
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;873262Not counting dragonborn from 4e and 5e, have you ever offered lizard men as a playable race in a fantasy game? Would you?
Did anyone take the option? How did it go? Did it lead to any interesting RP?
Yup - way back when D&D 3 came out, I believe. I offered a lizard man, and my friend Allyn took that offer. Everyone loved Sssssakah (or his name sounded something like that). i think he used to lick his eyes, or something like that (the PC, not the Player).
Quote from: Molotov;873421Yup - way back when D&D 3 came out, I believe. I offered a lizard man, and my friend Allyn took that offer. Everyone loved Sssssakah (or his name sounded something like that). i think he used to lick his eyes, or something like that (the PC, not the Player).
Thanks for clarifying. Otherwise I might have thought your player was this girl (http://time.com/3856806/adrianne-lewis-long-tongue-guinness-world-record-viral/).
I recall some Saurigs (per the Arduin Grimoire) back in the day; a lizard man was a character in Andre Norton's Greyhawk-inspired novel Quag Keep, as I recall.
More interesting was an all-Dragonewt scenario using personality trait rules -- prototype for the rules in Pendragon -- from Wyrm's Footnotes.
The first character I ever played was Phoebus, from Rogues Gallery, who had been reincarnated as a lizard man. I've had a soft spot for them ever since though I've mostly DMed and only been able to play them a couple times.
One was a very civilized and intelligent runt of a reptile man in GURPS. Nobody thought him safe once he'd torn a few people's heads off with his teeth. Bite and thrash for the win.
Lizard Men have been a playable race in Palladium Fantasy since probably the 80s.
I've never played one, as it never seemed appropriate for any campaign I've been in.
Yes. Used Lizard men from the 2e expansions for Lizard Men and Saurials.
And for 5e allowed the Lizard men from Southlands Heroes.
For BX we used the custom class system from Dragon.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;873415No one bit, which I'm assuming (and I'll state straight out, I could be dead wrong) that it was due to the inherent inhumanity of the species, and the perceived inability to function in a city environment (actually, I would have set aside a 'lizardman' section for when they come to trade.)
Weird, their 'inhumanity' is what would attract me and several other players I know to playing one in the first place.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;873459Weird, their 'inhumanity' is what would attract me and several other players I know to playing one in the first place.
Well, if he's correct in it being the, "the perceived inability to function in a city environment," then it is the challenge of playing the outcast role. That's a fun role to attempt, but certainly a challenging role.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;873465Well, if he's correct in it being the, "the perceived inability to function in a city environment," then it is the challenge of playing the outcast role. That's a fun role to attempt, but certainly a challenging role.
It can be challenging to both sides. As stated above, the inhumanity might be a draw for some people (not the people I played with, but I never asked, and it's been over a decade that I spent any time with some of them), but it's also a challenge to the DM/GM.
I mean, how do you make it so that they can go into a civilized place and not get chased out without feeling contrived? That's assuming that Lizardfolk are meant to be considered outcasts or 'alien'.
Very few societies and communities are that accepting, so how?
It can be a lot of fun, but it can be a hassle for both sides.
I'm willing to try, but none of the people I played with back then didn't seem to care enough to, just happy to be elves and orcs and dwarves. (Now that I think about it, no one wanted to play Halflings or Gnomes...)
GURPS Fantasy Folk had reptile men.
OD&D allowed anything via the DM
Also AD&D sort of had them via the reincarnate spell. There was an iconic one in the rogues gallery named Phoebus
I'm not fond of them but I generally prefer humans only.
GURPS Fantasy Folk had reptile men.
OD&D allowed anything via the DM
Also AD&D sort of had them via the reincarnate spell mentioned upthread
And David Johansen were you the original Phoebes? Wow. That guy was kind iconic to me in that it showed the weirdness that is D&D
Personally I'm not fond of them outside of very classic AD&D
Sorry for the 3rd post, I'd appreciate if #28 and this was deleted. For some reason edit is borked and the info in #28 is redundant since I went back and read the thread again
Yes, in my RC D&D campaign.
IIRC Atlantis: the 2nd Age has playable reptile/lizard men.
Quote from: Kamard;873309I have Thrassians in my own ACKS game. They're not really popular for some reason.
Back during playtesting there was a lot of worry that Thrassians were "overpowered" in combat at low levels, but I haven't heard of that being a concern post-release.
Quote from: Naburimannu;874094Back during playtesting there was a lot of worry that Thrassians were "overpowered" in combat at low levels, but I haven't heard of that being a concern post-release.
Excepting games with some kind of 'level adjustment' mechanic, I think that's intuitive, since they are going to have some basic bonuses (teeth and/or claws, presumably, and likely scaly, protective skin), and fewer and/or harder to enforce penalties (they aren't usually as dumb as orcs, for example, and primitive rarely keeps people from getting modern-for-the-setting weapons). What do they get in ACKS?
At one point I had some thoughts of a game with a big draconian/lizardman type empire. Never came of nothing though, at least not yet.
Atlantis: the Second Age has reptile folk and I have had one PC of that race.
They are essentially a degenerate slave race of the snake people that are amongst the big bads, so they are compelling to play.
Spoiler
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ox7rKSUdK3Y/VVz9nRBQPOI/AAAAAAAAAaA/ZYECBmSiivM/w426-h603/Ahl_at_Rab.jpg)
Shrug. Nobody ever asked.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;874725Shrug. Nobody ever asked.
From my personal (anecdotal) experience, this.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;873262Not counting dragonborn from 4e and 5e, have you ever offered lizard men as a playable race in a fantasy game? Would you?
Did anyone take the option? How did it go? Did it lead to any interesting RP?
I have been running for years a Bulgarian "fantasy heartbreaker", which has them as a playable race. Some people want to play them and if they could answer the questions detailed in the text, I was fine:).
The questions mostly boiled down to "why do other PCs trust you, and how do you avoid people gathering in a lynch mob", since they were like the orcs in the assumed setting;).
Sure! I like lizardmen. I used to regularly let players make them in Spelljammer and FR games (and of course told them ahead of time there would be social consequences, etc.)
I've even had a PC paladin get his arm lopped off (sword of sharpness) saving a lizard-man tribe from an orc-incursion. In reward, the lizardman shaman (cleric of Semuanya) beseeched his god, and Semuanya grew him a new arm... a lizardman arm (19 Str!) and he became an honorary member of the tribe. Good times!
I've had two PCs in games I've run over the years that were lizardmen. One was in a game where the lizardmen were basically neolithic in technology and culture. Another where they were pretty much right in with human society, but sort of keeping to their own communities most of the time.
I'd recommend against the cave man approach. You basically end up with a hamming it up and over emphasizing of dumb things until the player gets comfortable with the idea that his character has learned enough to fit in and act normal.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;873262Not counting dragonborn from 4e and 5e, have you ever offered lizard men as a playable race in a fantasy game? Would you?
Did anyone take the option? How did it go? Did it lead to any interesting RP?
In OD&D, Yes, Yes, Yes, No problem at all, as much fun as anything else. Yes, for instance Lizards/Reptiles from hot dry climates have a problem with wet damp cold or dry cold climates, and Lizards/Reptiles from wet swampy climates have problems with hot and cold deserts. Also really different customs and mores. Hard to read body language, etc.
Actually, the first character I ever played was a lizard man in a fairly vanilla GURPS fantasy game. What can I say, I like reptiles.
We had some NPC lizard folk in a couple of campaigns. I would have allowed PCs but they weren't native to any of the campaign locales. Players always seemed to prefer mammalian races.
My girlfriend is playing a T'skrang Airsailor named Lux in my Earthdawn game (a rare combination of race and discipline). She really likes the contrast between the "civilized" lizardmen River Houses (who have fire cannons and steam engine paddle-wheel ships), and the wild tribes (much more D&D style lizardmen, but with maori style war-canoes and south american style carved monster masks).
Concept image for Lux, color scheme is late-twilight purples:
http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/113859/TSkrang_Swordmaster.jpg
Lux's minimized stats:
[ED4] 3rd Circle T'skrang Airsailor
Lux is a risk for House Vistrimon, a rare Airsailor initiate sent to
discover routes through the Servos Jungle towards Kratas for future
airship trade exploitation. Lux travels with a large riding/pack bird,
and has a 2 man canoe hidden nearby.
DEX: 7+/d10 ---|Initiative: 4/d6 -----|Movement: 12
STR: 6+/d10 ---|Physical Def: 10(+2)--|Knockdown: 6
TOU: 6++/d10 --|Mystic Def: 8 --------|Wound Threshold: 10
PER: 6/d10 ----|Social Def: 8(+1) ----|Unconsciousness: 45(30+15)
WIL: 5/d8 -----|Physical Armor: 7 ----|Death Rating: 54(36+18)
CHA: 6+/d10 ---|Mystic Armor: (+2) --|Recovery Tests: 3
Karma: d6 (pool 8/12, modifier 4) ----|Durability:*5
*Tail Combat: Allows an additional Unarmed Combat attack,
costs –2 to all tests that round.(Tail Attack - Players Guide p 386)
Air Sailing (3) 10/2d8
Avoid Blow (3) 10/2d8
Climbing (3) 10/2d8
Melee Weapons (4) 11/d10+d8
Thread Weaving (3) 9/d8+d6
Wind Catcher (3) 8/2d6
Acrobatic Defense (3) 10/2d8
Awareness (3) 9/d8+d6
Taunt (3) 9/d8+d6
Empathic Sense (2) 8/2d6
Speak Languages (2) 8/2d6
Chainmail (PA 7, -3 Init)
Rapier (5)12, Parrying Dagger (2)9 [Serves as a +1 Buckler]
200 silver
*other loot stashed at the Inn of the Welcome Wench, Village of Homm (T1-4)