It has been a long time since if had to deal with specifics, but I mainly mean that the higher the point totals were in 3e the more things felt like the pieces didn't click right.  Like what we wanted were Lego bricks but we only had a narrow range of brick sizes to work with.

In hindsight there were a lot of things we could have done, but I think that 4e has more examples of the systems flexibility and power than 3e had.  Not that it couldn't have been done back then, but the way wasn't nearly as clear as it can be now.

Ok, thanks.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1027318GURPS can do fantasy, but what it does well is low-power low-magic fantasy. Otherwise you're up to your wazoo in point-buy, and you don't get the right kind of inflation for high-level hp or spells.

I don't believe this is true anymore. I can have my players make 350 point characters, limit where they can spend stuff (this much goes to your template, attributes, spend this much on skills...) and I get solid, competent heroes that do not feel overpowered or wonky to me at all.

Also, instead of using GURPS hit-points, fatigue-points as D&D like hit points, allow them to start out with Ablative DR. It heals at the same rate as hit-points and essentially "pads" how long a person can withstand damage. You could easily link it skills (you are allowed 3 pts of Ablative DR for every point you have in the following skills above 12, as an example). Then limit starting skills to 14 or 16 to account for character growth.

Especially with 4th edition GURPS, you really don't have to just "go by the rules as written". When you explore Pyramid, various awesome posts on the forums, or the menagerie of PDF supplements, the customizability of GURPS becomes more apparent.

Or you can just add NPC companions of one sort or another.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2262[/ATTACH]

(I can sense all the dead characters from a lifetime of playing TFT & GURPS rolling in their graves at the suggestion of adding ablative DR to give people metamagical hitpoint cushions...)

Quote from: trechriron;1027607I don't believe this is true anymore. I can have my players make 350 point characters, limit where they can spend stuff (this much goes to your template, attributes, spend this much on skills...) and I get solid, competent heroes that do not feel overpowered or wonky to me at all.

Also, instead of using GURPS hit-points, fatigue-points as D&D like hit points, allow them to start out with Ablative DR. It heals at the same rate as hit-points and essentially "pads" how long a person can withstand damage. You could easily link it skills (you are allowed 3 pts of Ablative DR for every point you have in the following skills above 12, as an example). Then limit starting skills to 14 or 16 to account for character growth.

Especially with 4th edition GURPS, you really don't have to just "go by the rules as written". When you explore Pyramid, various awesome posts on the forums, or the menagerie of PDF supplements, the customizability of GURPS becomes more apparent.

Well, I've heard later GURPS rules sets have been better at figuring out ways to avoid having to spend HOURS deciding how 350 points are spent. But I'm dubious. Shadowrun always made the same claims and they were always lies.
You give a character hundreds of "points" and then THOUSANDS of options of what they can spend with it, and you're asking for 5-hour-long character creation.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1027925Well, I've heard later GURPS rules sets have been better at figuring out ways to avoid having to spend HOURS deciding how 350 points are spent. But I'm dubious. Shadowrun always made the same claims and they were always lies.
You give a character hundreds of "points" and then THOUSANDS of options of what they can spend with it, and you're asking for 5-hour-long character creation.

While you could use the raw lists, GURPS 4th edition consistently presents templates for use in character creation.

For example this portion of the Wizards template.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2277[/ATTACH]

Or this example of a smaller point template I created for my Majestic Wilderlands campaign.

Myrmidon of Set

Well, fair enough. But I think templates are their own source of problems.

Nothing to me beats randomization. And templates are almost entirely the opposite of that.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1028292Well, fair enough. But I think templates are their own source of problems.

Nothing to me beats randomization. And templates are almost entirely the opposite of that.

How do you do point buy with randomization?

I'm also a big fan of randomization. I used to really like GURPS because I could build exactly what I wanted but then I learned as I got older that letting the dice fall and picking up and playing with the pieces I'm given is a lot more fun than what I have in my head. I never know what 3d6 down the line will bring me and it's a ton of fun running that character.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1028292Well, fair enough. But I think templates are their own source of problems.

Nothing to me beats randomization. And templates are almost entirely the opposite of that.

That a different issue then the one you raised earlier which was it takes hours to make a GURPS character.

Random character generation versus pick and choose character generation is an age old divide in the hobby along side using miniatures or not using miniatures. Using class to define your character or using skills. In the amount it is a preference. If you like random character generation then GURPS is not the system for you. Then again neither is Fate, Hero System and a half a dozen other RPGs out there.

Having said that there is a random GURPS character generation made for 3rd edition. It not very good but there is one. There is nothing intrinsic about GURPS that precludes of creating a method of randomly generating character. Just nobody took the time to do a good one.

Quote from: Ulairi;1028324How do you do point buy with randomization?

I'm also a big fan of randomization. I used to really like GURPS because I could build exactly what I wanted but then I learned as I got older that letting the dice fall and picking up and playing with the pieces I'm given is a lot more fun than what I have in my head. I never know what 3d6 down the line will bring me and it's a ton of fun running that character.

To do point buy with randomization well, you'd get someone who knows both your game system really well, and knows probability, and have them make random tables with appropriate proportions. And you might possibly want to write a computer program.

The difficulty is more that GURPS has a huge number of options, which a randomizer should do something intelligent with, probably best by making a list of mini-templates and randomly choosing between those.

Templates are not "the opposite of randomization" if instead of treating them as complete pre-gen characters, you treat them as typical values that you then deviate from (randomly or by choice) to create an actual individual. For example, to randomize a GURPS stat from a template, you could roll 3d6 and apply your favorite D&D translation from 3d6 to "bonus", or invent one such as:

3: -4
4: -3
5-6: -2
7-8: -1
9-12: 0 = Use template value unmodified
13-14: +1
15-16: +2
17: +3
18: +4

To simulate D&D-style character creation, you could roll for your attribute adjustments first, and if you really want to be D&D-like, roll for the other D&D attributes like:

ST, DX, IQ, HT (i.e. constitution) - as above

Charisma: Roll on a table such as:
3: -40 points in appearance and odious personal habits, etc
4: -30 points
5: -25 points
6: -20 points
7: -15 points
8: -10 points
9: -5 points
10-11: 0 = Use template value unmodified
12: 5 points in appearance, charisma, social skills, etc.
13: 10 points
14: 15 points
15: 20 points
16: 25 points
17: 30 points
18: 40 points

(If you want to have no choice about what type of low/high "charisma" you have, you can make tables for that, too.)

Wisdom: use a table, say like the one for charisma above, but put the points into appropriate advantages/disadvantages (willpower, common sense, overconfidence, foolhardy, etc)

Then, to be D&D-like, you could choose one or more templates (akin to choosing a D&D class), and then either randomize bits of that too as for the attributes, and/or let players tweak some things up & down for points.

Quote from: Ulairi;1028324How do you do point buy with randomization? ...

Take a look at Dragonquest. You randomly determine the parameters to your point-buy pool (total points and maximum per stat).

For my money a randomly generated GURPS character would have to be using a lifepath system like Over the Wall.

LIfepath systems are the only ones I think are actually cool and interesting. Traveller is the original and best developed, but of course WFRP, Burning Wheel and a few others present similar ideas. The addition of Backgrounds in 5E is a sort of schematic hint of this idea

Quote from: estar;1028327Having said that there is a random GURPS character generation made for 3rd edition. It not very good but there is one. There is nothing intrinsic about GURPS that precludes of creating a method of randomly generating character. Just nobody took the time to do a good one.

I once adapted that random chart for 4th edition GURPS for different settings.

Will have to see if I can find my old printout of that version.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Ulairi;1028324How do you do point buy with randomization?

I don't.