Quote from: oggsmash;1031115This is not true at all.  Assuming DF characters.  Now a fight with 150 pt chars and 20 orcs, that could take a while. ...

The characters I used in my trials above were averaging around 150 points and were plain non-DF GURPS characters using just mundane abilities and equipment. Took me slightly longer than you estimated, but not much longer.

They've announced a new adventure for DFRPG

http://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/2018-04-01

Nice.  I am ok at converting 1st and 3rd ed adventures to GURPS, but it does take some time, and I think the move for SJG would be to churn out adventures in PDF version.   Maybe it would not be a money maker, but seems a good move.

I am certain that's an April Fools joke, the tip off is that it's a GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Grappling Quickstart...

Maybe, but they have been working out the more incremental grappling rules for a few years now, so that is not exactly a tip off, since Cole is the guy who worked on the rules alot the past few years.

I'm with the SJG forum speculation in that it looks real to me, although I think there's ironic humor in that it probably does have a DF version of Cole's grappling rules.

Cole posted on the forums, it is real.

Does that mean DF isn't being cancelled after all?

DF is a GURPS line.
DFRPG is a lite-er "powered by GURPS" line that had the boxed set released for it. The boxed set seems like it won't be printed again.
This is a new adventure written for DFRPG which includes some new rules, so evidently they may continue to make more DFRPG content.

DF will certainly continue to get new stuff, too.

I'm pretty sure they did the Dungeon Fantasy game based on the popularity of the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy pdf line.  Personally, DFrpg is not a good introductory GURPS game, too much front loaded complexity.  On the other hand it's a fun thing for GURPS fans.  The thing I'd really like to see is a big box of Card Board Heroes like the ones in the box.  They're the real gem, heavy card, nice plastic stands with a facing arrow.  I'm a serious miniatures junky but sometimes you want something that's easy to take with you or a more comprehensive set for a lower price.

A game shop near me went out of business, so I just picked up boxed set of Dungeons & Dragons: GURPS edition and the DM screen for the princely sum of $20. I'm reading through the manual, and let me tell you: I don't get the point of this game. I've started reading through the rules and so far, the question ringing in my brain is, "Why did Steve Jackson Games think it was a good idea to rewrite Dungeons & Dragons using a 3d6 roll-under system?" I've been playing D&D for a few years (since around the time 4e came out), and at no point did having a different statistical distribution of my core die rolls ever seem all that important.

The rule books have misleading titles. "Exploits" is not a book of feats and character options, it's actually a bit DMG and a bit PHB. Organization is kind of confusing, and it clearly needed some testing with someone who had never played GURPS before, because they do stuff like allude to the obvious result of somebody have a 16 on his sheet meaning something else having a -2 or whatever that apparently I'm supposed to just know what the heck that is. While I appreciate this nod to classic AD&D 1e's organizational principles, this is really confusing.

The most disappointing thing so far is just how D&D-y it is. Its concept of "fantasy" is far too Gygaxian and thus presents nothing interesting or unique to a first-time reader. That's why I don't know what the point of this game is. It seems like hardcore GURPS fans already would have the Basic Set and DF expansions. But if you're a D&D fan, there's nothing that really stands out in the basic presentation. It is literally the same old D&D classes and D&D races laid out for you, just with different mechanics. And if you're new to RPGs, why would you not just pick up the real D&D first thing?

I haven't read it thoroughly; these are just first impressions. But first impressions are how you make the sale, so it's no wonder this was unsuccessful. I'm really bored already by reading this (yawn...okay...now the gnome rogue pick locks with 3d6 instead of d100 or d20, who cares?). If the combat system looks cool, I'll give it a shot, but they really should have had a better idea that "Do what Gygax and Arneson did, but with different dice."

Just read the combat section. It looks really cool.

GURPS has a fantastic tactical combat system and dungeons provide fantastic tactical combat situations, it's a natural fit.  GURPS is a very flexible game while D&D is generally more structured and rigid.  There are advantages to both approaches but I've had people play demons, manticores, dragons, and animals in my GURPS fantasy games and it handles them fine.  GURPS has more pitfalls than D&D but Dungeon Fantasy holds your hand and gives you very combat effective character templates.

Still, I've felt the box was rather more aimed at existing GURPS fans than new players.

The text and presentation feels like it's trying to cash in on the current D&D craze to sell GURPS. The problem is it comes off as too similar to D&D without going all the way and converting the SRD    monsters to their system. Personally, I'd be more interested in doing the work to learn this if it weren't Gygaxian fantasy with different numbers. People buy games for the content, not the mechanics.

Steve Jackson Games seems to feel GURPS fans buy GURPS for the mechanics not the content.  Despite the good reputation world books had in earlier editions they're deemed insufficiently profitable these days.

On the other hand, I don't think it was ever an attempt to cash in on D&D's current popularity.  It was an attempt to gauge the willingness of GURPS fans to support a kickstarter.  It's clearly not an introductory level game.  Go look at the armour cost and weight tables and tell me that's aimed at new players.  Now look at the genericness of the very nice box, books, and components, in a market saturated with fantasy board games what does it do to stand out?  It's very nice, but they're all very nice.  The reality is Dungeon Fantasy is the most popular line of GURPS pdfs and this box is aimed at that market.  Sure SJG would have been happy if it was a break out success but really they were testing the willingness of GURPS fans to support a kickstarter like this.  They're looking for a way to produce support for GURPS.  World books only appeal to a fraction of the fan base, they've done Mars Attacks and Disc World last years and they did okay but not great.  The thing is that world books are wants not needs and gamers are notorious for waiting to buy things.  What kickstarter does for SJG is give them direct access to the fans and their money, something retail and the distribution system are increasingly bad at (and I'm a retailer).  The DF box has been deemed a failure due to delays and cost over runs but it has shown that the fans are willing to put money up in advance to get support for GURPS.

Another important data point is that Steve Jackson probably knew he was getting his original tactical fantasy game The Fantasy Trip back and didn't make a simpler GURPS Dungeon Fantasy game because they'd overlap too much.

Anyhow, GURPS fits some people's needs very well and others not so much.  At some point I'd like to put together some templates and a world map and a dungeon but I'd aim it at a more introductory level of play.  Even so, it'd have to be a freebie so it's not a real priority.