Quote from: RPGPundit on January 19, 2025, 06:14:40 AMIt's one of the worst things the Left ever did. They destroyed the credibility of the word "Nazi" in its original definition.

When I went to college in the 1980s, I saw people of all sorts of politics use "nazi" as a generic insult especially for authoritarian types of any stripe. The Right (like Rush Limbaugh) would use terms like "feminazi" for feminist authoritarians, and "grammar nazi" became a common insult. One of the earliest observations of the Internet was Godwin's Law coined in 1990, which showed the frequency of comparing people to Hitler.

So it was common among various politics to use "nazi" as an insult since at least the late 1980s.

The confusion came when actual neonazis became more visible. Neonazis had always been around since shortly after WWII, but I think with the rise of the Internet they gained more visibility. This lead to imprecision about whether one was using "nazi" in the original sense or the broader sense.

They needed the term both watered down and applied to opposing philosophies because National Socialism was just another branch of Marxist as Communism or their much beloved "Critical Theory" (ex. Critical Race Theory).

The core theme for them all, including in RPGs is to foster division. Instead of all the 'nerds' standing together to defend their hobby, they employ critical theory tactics to create divisions...

The boys won't let the girls play was probably one of the first; thus the game must be changed to make accommodations for this new division.

The whole Forge/GNS was another effort at division... they wanted sides picked and the community atomized so it would be easier to foist their ideas on the individual parts (Pundit's video on Euroboardgame design catalyzed that thought for me).

The recent pushes of Colonialism, Race, and Trans/Disabled inclusionism is just the latest wedge. Easier to force your ideas onto the smaller groups that are left.

I'm sure there's at least one Marxist-ideological OSR product out there trying to divide it further too.

Marxism; be it fascist, communist, socialist, or public-private partnership; really is a cancer... it breaks up healthy groups into smaller less healthy ones and keeps at it until everything is too atomized to survive on its own.

I think their whole trying to inject modern politics into an apolitical game like D&D is just plain stupid.

D&D was already one of the most inclusive games possible. The idea was that you could play practically any character you wanted that was there. Within the scope of whatever type of fantasy genre the DM chose to simulate.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 20, 2025, 08:43:57 AMI think their whole trying to inject modern politics into an apolitical game like D&D is just plain stupid.

D&D was already one of the most inclusive games possible. The idea was that you could play practically any character you wanted that was there. Within the scope of whatever type of fantasy genre the DM chose to simulate.

This ideology seems to stem from the 'EVERYTHING must be political' crowd that, to be honest, sound like a bunch of killjoys that nobody would want to game with anyway and they certainly do not understand the concept of escapism. My group plays as escapism and to detach from the real world, not to simulate the current political climate.

Quote from: bat on January 20, 2025, 11:59:39 AM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 20, 2025, 08:43:57 AMI think their whole trying to inject modern politics into an apolitical game like D&D is just plain stupid.

D&D was already one of the most inclusive games possible. The idea was that you could play practically any character you wanted that was there. Within the scope of whatever type of fantasy genre the DM chose to simulate.

This ideology seems to stem from the 'EVERYTHING must be political' crowd that, to be honest, sound like a bunch of killjoys that nobody would want to game with anyway and they certainly do not understand the concept of escapism. My group plays as escapism and to detach from the real world, not to simulate the current political climate.

There's a reason they're basically the new age Puritans (per the old joke that Puritanism is the lingering fear that someone somewhere is having a good time). The modern RPG scolds are just the latest iteration of the Satanic Panic church lady mindset.

They're miserable. You're not. You're not allowed to be not miserable unless they can be too (which they can't).

Quote from: bat on January 20, 2025, 11:59:39 AM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 20, 2025, 08:43:57 AMI think their whole trying to inject modern politics into an apolitical game like D&D is just plain stupid.

D&D was already one of the most inclusive games possible. The idea was that you could play practically any character you wanted that was there. Within the scope of whatever type of fantasy genre the DM chose to simulate.

This ideology seems to stem from the 'EVERYTHING must be political' crowd that, to be honest, sound like a bunch of killjoys that nobody would want to game with anyway and they certainly do not understand the concept of escapism. My group plays as escapism and to detach from the real world, not to simulate the current political climate.

Fortunately, they are quickly falling out of fashion. Even WIZARDS just cancelled their DEI M:tG squad.

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 21, 2025, 04:23:54 PMFortunately, they are quickly falling out of fashion. Even WIZARDS just cancelled their DEI M:tG squad.

Hasbro is a company that likes money; anyone with a brain can see the writing on the wall. It's still gonna take years to get rid of all this crap, and the leftist morons will do everything they can to ensure games, media, education, etc. it doesn't happen. Thankfully, a lot of the people in the US have seen with their own eyes that the leftist ideology is really a small minority instead of the prevailing view.

However, want your take on this...do you think WotC is basically fucked? D&D has become much less attractive with the actual gamers, and the new blood they brought in aren't the types to stick with the hobby in the same way as the old timers. I have been waiting for a new top dog ever since I was a kid and it never materialized, even with 4th/Pathfinder. That was a serious New Coke moment. So, yeah, is D&D getting supplanted as #1 finally and WotC maybe sells the property and just cranks out Magic cards?

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 21, 2025, 04:23:54 PMFortunately, they are quickly falling out of fashion. Even WIZARDS just cancelled their DEI M:tG squad.

The spigots of DEI money that sheltered them from the consequences of their idiocy are getting shut off.

Hasbro (and other entertainment-based businesses) has to actually care about having people buy their products again so, though it will be through gritted teeth, the DEI garbage will be backburnered.

They'll still hate us, but now they need us again.

I expect a return to a lot more of their old passive-aggressive tactics (ex. dead Redgar scenes) from the early-to-mid 2000's.

Quote from: jhkim on January 20, 2025, 02:23:17 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 19, 2025, 06:14:40 AMIt's one of the worst things the Left ever did. They destroyed the credibility of the word "Nazi" in its original definition.

When I went to college in the 1980s, I saw people of all sorts of politics use "nazi" as a generic insult especially for authoritarian types of any stripe. The Right (like Rush Limbaugh) would use terms like "feminazi" for feminist authoritarians, and "grammar nazi" became a common insult. One of the earliest observations of the Internet was Godwin's Law coined in 1990, which showed the frequency of comparing people to Hitler.

So it was common among various politics to use "nazi" as an insult since at least the late 1980s.

The confusion came when actual neonazis became more visible. Neonazis had always been around since shortly after WWII, but I think with the rise of the Internet they gained more visibility. This lead to imprecision about whether one was using "nazi" in the original sense or the broader sense.

Talk about putting the cart before the horse. Nazi was a slur but it wasnt' as widespread until the Left started leaning heavily into calling their opponents Nazis. And then hey presto! there were "more" Nazis! *rolleyes*

Quote from: Brad on January 21, 2025, 05:34:18 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 21, 2025, 04:23:54 PMFortunately, they are quickly falling out of fashion. Even WIZARDS just cancelled their DEI M:tG squad.

Hasbro is a company that likes money; anyone with a brain can see the writing on the wall. It's still gonna take years to get rid of all this crap, and the leftist morons will do everything they can to ensure games, media, education, etc. it doesn't happen. Thankfully, a lot of the people in the US have seen with their own eyes that the leftist ideology is really a small minority instead of the prevailing view.

However, want your take on this...do you think WotC is basically fucked? D&D has become much less attractive with the actual gamers, and the new blood they brought in aren't the types to stick with the hobby in the same way as the old timers. I have been waiting for a new top dog ever since I was a kid and it never materialized, even with 4th/Pathfinder. That was a serious New Coke moment. So, yeah, is D&D getting supplanted as #1 finally and WotC maybe sells the property and just cranks out Magic cards?

I think they're fucked UNLESS they do a special massive overhaul. They need to basically fire everyone (at the very least everyone on the creative side) and get people with actual design skills and a love of regular D&D to work there.

WotC already had "classic coke is back" moments with the start of 3e and the start of 5e. No reason they can't do it again, except that the current employees despise D&D, are ideological fanatics, and would try to sabotage.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 21, 2025, 05:42:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 21, 2025, 04:23:54 PMFortunately, they are quickly falling out of fashion. Even WIZARDS just cancelled their DEI M:tG squad.

The spigots of DEI money that sheltered them from the consequences of their idiocy are getting shut off.

Hasbro (and other entertainment-based businesses) has to actually care about having people buy their products again so, though it will be through gritted teeth, the DEI garbage will be backburnered.

They'll still hate us, but now they need us again.

I expect a return to a lot more of their old passive-aggressive tactics (ex. dead Redgar scenes) from the early-to-mid 2000's.

I believe they burned too many bridges to try and appeal to long time hobbyists again. They went full retard and flat out told many of us that we were no longer welcome in the hobby. They will now just have to choke down the shit sandwich that they have made.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on January 22, 2025, 02:32:09 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 21, 2025, 05:42:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 21, 2025, 04:23:54 PMFortunately, they are quickly falling out of fashion. Even WIZARDS just cancelled their DEI M:tG squad.

The spigots of DEI money that sheltered them from the consequences of their idiocy are getting shut off.

Hasbro (and other entertainment-based businesses) has to actually care about having people buy their products again so, though it will be through gritted teeth, the DEI garbage will be backburnered.

They'll still hate us, but now they need us again.

I expect a return to a lot more of their old passive-aggressive tactics (ex. dead Redgar scenes) from the early-to-mid 2000's.

I believe they burned too many bridges to try and appeal to long time hobbyists again. They went full retard and flat out told many of us that we were no longer welcome in the hobby. They will now just have to choke down the shit sandwich that they have made.

They may have, but it doesn't mean they won't TRY. Just like Disney will try to do something to salvage Marvel and/or Star Wars and the AAA game industry will try to woo back gamers by shoving the DEI into "optional" content (they'll still put the gay lover option into the game, they just won't make it the default).

Its classic abuser behavior, when it looks like the abused might actually leave for real they'll change behavior and start gaslighting just long enough to keep the abused from actually taking that last step.

That's Hasbro in a nutshell. They'll do something like "diversity always had to include straight white men (as long as they're leftists)" and then slap a couple on the cover of 1-2 books and maybe only mention the gay couple NPCs in the GM material rather than introductory box text in some of their adventures and hope that's enough to keep gamers from abandoning them.

Sad thing is it'll probably work for half the people ready to leave. It takes, on average, seven attempts for someone abused to finally leave their abuser precisely because of behavior like that ("oh, WotC DOES care. If I don't give them a second, third, fifth chance, that would make ME the bad guy").

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 22, 2025, 02:48:02 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on January 22, 2025, 02:32:09 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 21, 2025, 05:42:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 21, 2025, 04:23:54 PMFortunately, they are quickly falling out of fashion. Even WIZARDS just cancelled their DEI M:tG squad.

The spigots of DEI money that sheltered them from the consequences of their idiocy are getting shut off.

Hasbro (and other entertainment-based businesses) has to actually care about having people buy their products again so, though it will be through gritted teeth, the DEI garbage will be backburnered.

They'll still hate us, but now they need us again.

I expect a return to a lot more of their old passive-aggressive tactics (ex. dead Redgar scenes) from the early-to-mid 2000's.

I believe they burned too many bridges to try and appeal to long time hobbyists again. They went full retard and flat out told many of us that we were no longer welcome in the hobby. They will now just have to choke down the shit sandwich that they have made.

They may have, but it doesn't mean they won't TRY. Just like Disney will try to do something to salvage Marvel and/or Star Wars and the AAA game industry will try to woo back gamers by shoving the DEI into "optional" content (they'll still put the gay lover option into the game, they just won't make it the default).

Its classic abuser behavior, when it looks like the abused might actually leave for real they'll change behavior and start gaslighting just long enough to keep the abused from actually taking that last step.

That's Hasbro in a nutshell. They'll do something like "diversity always had to include straight white men (as long as they're leftists)" and then slap a couple on the cover of 1-2 books and maybe only mention the gay couple NPCs in the GM material rather than introductory box text in some of their adventures and hope that's enough to keep gamers from abandoning them.

Sad thing is it'll probably work for half the people ready to leave. It takes, on average, seven attempts for someone abused to finally leave their abuser precisely because of behavior like that ("oh, WotC DOES care. If I don't give them a second, third, fifth chance, that would make ME the bad guy").

That will matter is authenticity. There's been lots of cases of woke companies trying to bring back the normies by bringing back classic characters or stories or stuff that attempts to look based, but if it is only superficial that becomes clear.
Often, they literally CAN'T give what the real fans want because the company no longer has ANYONE working for them who has the slightest idea what fans want. At best they create some horrible deformed imitation of what they imagine in their mind the fans want.

That's the problem for WotC. It can't come back now, unless it fires everyone in charge. None of the ones who are left have the slightest idea what they're doing, and so what they produce would inevitably only cause more damage.

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2025, 01:06:12 PMThat's the problem for WotC. It can't come back now, unless it fires everyone in charge. None of the ones who are left have the slightest idea what they're doing, and so what they produce would inevitably only cause more damage.

   Further complicating the matter is the fact that I think they've spent a decade cultivating this new fanbase that actually does want what they're giving them. It's not all of the fans, but it's a sizable and vocal portion of them, and a change would produce the results of 'splitting the fanbase,' which is the Great Institutional Fear of WotC.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 25, 2025, 02:17:04 PMFurther complicating the matter is the fact that I think they've spent a decade cultivating this new fanbase that actually does want what they're giving them. It's not all of the fans, but it's a sizable and vocal portion of them...

I doubt it, unless by "sizable and vocal" you mean large numbers of bots on Twitter and Reddit...