Sealioning is merely an attempt to justify censorship where the hive mind is being legitimately challenged to offer substantive evidence, rather than hearsay and inference. In any reasoned debate, evidence and corroboration is offered in support of an argument. It might be torn to shreds or disproved, but it's offered, nonetheless.

The NuThink of SJW Stalinism can only really operate effectively by ignoring the tried and tested principles of reasoned debate and argument. It therefore needs to invent protective mechanisms for when the principles of reasoned debate and dialectic pose a credible threat to its integrity. Sealioning is the NuThink equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and humming 'la-la-la'. It's a diversionary tactic used to smear and then censor those who challenge the prevailing narrative. It preserves the inherent victimhood of the Nuthink, and reinforces the Confirmation Bias SJWs need to thrive.

This is the reason why SJWs so vehemently declare that standard legal principles such as 'innocent until proven guilty' don't, and shouldn't, apply in their Courts of Public Opinion. Their arguments rapidly fall apart when subjected to the standard forms of evidence, debate and proof; so all attempts to introduce these things have to be fucked in the ass with a poker.

Oh it describes a real enough phenomenon.  It's just that like all such cases it's use is ridiculously overgeneralised - and it's changed from recognition of bad faith after the fact to immediate (and convenient) assumption of bad faith.

Getting away from politics for a minute a genuine example in a rpg context would be if I said at a place like, for example TBP (where this sort of behaviour is ironically enough especially common) "I don't like dice pools"*.  You can bet that someone would then respond by stating that they can't understand why I don't like dice pools and could I please explain.  Of course any reason I give would then be attacked quickly revealing that what that poster really wants to do is have an argument where they make themselves as small a target as possible by never putting forward any position of their own.

*Actually I have no problem with dice pools.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1086123Sealioning is a term invented by delicate assholes who don't like being called on their shitty, worthless opinions.

If we're to consider the comic it's based on, then #Sealioning is quite literally asking someone to justify their bigotry.

Their. Bigotry.

SJWs are completely blind to their own reasoning, and have created a culture which forbids and lexicon which prevents questioning it, which is why they can't meme and so often devolve into self-parody.

Quote from: TJS;1086132Oh it describes a real enough phenomenon.  It's just that like all such cases it's use is ridiculously overgeneralised - and it's changed from recognition of bad faith after the fact to immediate (and convenient) assumption of bad faith.

Getting away from politics for a minute a genuine example in a rpg context would be if I said at a place like, for example TBP (where this sort of behaviour is ironically enough especially common) "I don't like dice pools"*.  You can bet that someone would then respond by stating that they can't understand why I don't like dice pools and could I please explain.  Of course any reason I give would then be attacked quickly revealing that what that poster really wants to do is have an argument where they make themselves as small a target as possible by never putting forward any position of their own.

*Actually I have no problem with dice pools.

Good analogy. Sealioning like many terms* has been interpreted as incredibly binary "There is no nuance, if you do this you're being an asshole!" with a baked in assumption of bad faith as its helps those throwing out the accusation in bad faith, as a rhetorical beat stick when they're losing or abruptly decided this wasn't the hill they wanted to die on after all and need some face saving cover for their retreat.

*See "Nice Guys" for another example.

Quote from: nDervish;1085502Yeah, and the craziest part is that they don't see this as the site failing, they see it as a victory.  Somewhere in the mid-50s-pages of the "Steve Jackson refunds" thread, there's some talk about how great it is that all these long-term forum members are outing themselves as alt-right gamergaters, which allows the mods to finally purify the site by banning them.

There's not even a hint of a thought that, just maybe, the site might be on the wrong track when all these people who have track records of being reasonable are suddenly saying things have gone wrong.  (Of course, part of the reason for the absence of such suggestions is likely to be the knowledge that, if you admit to thinking such a thing, you'll be the next one on the chopping block.)

Its a really weird mindset. Had an ex-boss that was that way. I worked in the front office for 2 years, we usually had between 10-20 people in the front office. In that 2 year period he ran off 99 employees... ( was keeping tabs with a post it note on my monitor). He saw it as a badge of honor... they went backrupt

Quote from: Brad;1085205Why don't those retards just make their own con if they have problems with all the other ones?

Evil cannot create. Only pervert and destroy.

ahem... From experience what would happen is what has happened before. Their con dies in a year or two and they go right back to hitting other cons and trying to co-ops other cons.

That and of couse they are out to "save" everyone from the evil con behavior people. Dont you know? Women are afraid to go to cons as they will be raped! We have to "clean up" the cons so they feel "safe".

Its the same old rhetoric the moral guardians were using a quarter of a century ago at cons.

Quote from: BugbearBrigand;1086073Yes, its a short hand for saying "I agree with this, I vibe with this." and isn't the secular version, more the Tumblr version. It isn't something you see a lot of except in circles that are sufficiently filled with the type of person who buys 200$ crystal healing remedies for their unvaccinated child.

A "bad actor" is someone who pretends to be invested or interested in a topic but is not genuinely interested or is doing so only to harass, exhaust, or bother someone. An example would be a man who listens to your wife complain about work while you're on a deployment, they are not actually interested in what your wife is saying and are instead playing the part for less than ethical purposes. This is commonly used to dismiss people who are trying to get information or ask questions in the same way that concern trolling, sealioning, and other terms are used to dismiss people. If you show up in a thread about bread and ask "Why do people like bread so much?" you may be labeled a bad actor as they believe that you are not sincerely interested and only want to antagonize people, especially if you continue to ask questions or they are difficult to answer.

TLDR; Its a term used to label you as a bad person and met punishment that cannot be definitively verified and exists in the mind of the claimant.

Haha shit. Nice summary, thanks. And also, gross. As expected I suppose. Sorry you had to multiclass for this.

Quote from: BrokenCounsel;1085159Heh. They should try harder, like my local con. https://breakoutcon.com/guests/

Even though its my local con, I just can't seem to work up the enthusiasm to actually go.

I recognise two of the names, probably my own fault for being in a D100/RQ/HQ gaming ghetto.

However, I am amazed at how many Guests there are and how many of them are from actual plays or podcasts.

Quote from: S'mon;1086020Maybe it's a weird British thing, but I don't think I've lost a single friend over politics, never mind gaming politics. 80% of my friends are left-liberal and these days I'm right wing by UK standards, but I've never seen any "You're dead to me now" stuff from anyone I considered a friend.

Or maybe it's that they're less confident in the US, where a social media post is far less likely to be the cause of a visit from the police.

Quote from: Kiero;1086025Same, barring a few rabidly left-wing outliers

Even the few rabidly left-wing ones don't seem to reject me over politics IME. Of course if they're rabid they tend to be effed up in other ways too.

I do remember after the EU referendum, a couple American women settled in Britain who I knew got really angry on Facebook and posted "If you voted Leave, Unfriend Me Now!" - so I did. But I don't recall this from any Brits, or from my French friends either.

Quote from: Eisenmann;1086308Or maybe it's that they're less confident in the US, where a social media post is far less likely to be the cause of a visit from the police.

We do certainly live in a Social Justice tyranny. I guess there are opinions like "Tommy Robinson isn't actually racist" which are widely held but basically unsayable.

Tommy Robinson isn't racist.

Quote from: S'mon;1086314Even the few rabidly left-wing ones don't seem to reject me over politics IME. Of course if they're rabid they tend to be effed up in other ways too.

I do remember after the EU referendum, a couple American women settled in Britain who I knew got really angry on Facebook and posted "If you voted Leave, Unfriend Me Now!" - so I did. But I don't recall this from any Brits, or from my French friends either.

Not as forthright as that, but I've been quietly un-friended by two Corbynistas I know (they know him personally, being involved with the Latin American/Islington set in his constituency).

Quote from: S'mon;1086316We do certainly live in a Social Justice tyranny. I guess there are opinions like "Tommy Robinson isn't actually racist" which are widely held but basically unsayable.

Indeed we do.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1086333Tommy Robinson isn't racist.

Exactly!

Quote from: goblinslayer;1086027Hmm... let's take a look at the alexa rankings.  It looks like all rpg forums are in decline.

Since those are relative rankings against all websites, it only really shows they're losing ground relative to those other sites.  It's possible (though admittedly unlikely) that RPG forums are becoming more popular, but other sites are gaining popularity faster.  If raw traffic numbers are available, I would expect that to be much more interesting, as well as a more solid basis to work from.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1086042Bit of a tangent, can someone tell me what the fuck typing the word "vibes" over on TBP means? Is this the secular version of sending prayers via Facebook likes or some shit?

Isn't that sharing comfort in the form of sending each other sex toys?