I could be wrong, but I think that a once per day ability that gets back a few hit points is a far cry from ursine eye lasers.

Quote from: WarthurSett, stepping away from RPGs for a moment: what fiction books do you particularly like? Or can you not stand fiction at all?

I ask because you seem to rage against genre trappings and artificialities as if a) they're inherent to all fiction and b) any argument based on fiction must be based on them.

I started writing a short list, but this was unbearable name dropping bordering the pretentious. Let´s just say I either read Sci-Fi which is not insulting to me, and if I read about the human condition, it must be in a language that remedies the artificialities, e.g. "classical" or "canonical" high literature.

When I was even younger, I gobbled up a lot of adventure novels, like the EU Star Wars stuff. They had a great escapist value to me, so the artificialities didn´t come up at the time. The moment they became obvious to me, I dropped reading stuff like that.

So, when I want an escapist fix nowadays, I´m only left with RPGs, because only they can be about geeky-nerdy fantasy worlds and treat them as if they were real, and not some lame simile for some lame beaten path in navel gazing and emo-tourism.

I see Second Wind (what little we know of it) as no more cinematic or literary than Great Cleave, ie. it's a method of gaining an in-game advantage or respite, the depiction of which is entirely dependent on the sensibilities of those at the table.

It's a boost. A buff. A means of gaining an extra shot at staying in the game. If people want to see that as the Great Betrayal of the D&D Paradigm then that's their look out, I suppose.

Quote from: The_ShadowWhy not just add 20% to everyone's HP across the board?

For the same reason that healing spells and potions don't activate automatically without an action of some sort. It's a game effect that requires the player to decide on it's use then announce it's deployment (or so it would appear). As such it has an additional tactical aspect that extra hp's simply don't. It's also therefore possible for a character to get killed in combat before it 's their turn if attcked by multiple opponents. Second Wind seems to require you actually survive a round of combat in order to use them.

Also, if anyone here has ever seen a boxer or martial artist come back and win a fight after losing a few rounds, or watched a runner on the edge of exhaustion push through "the wall" then you'll know exactly what second wind is about. And I'm not talking Rocky Balboa but real, observable instances of this sort of thing happening.

Quote from: SettembriniSo, when I want an escapist fix nowadays, I´m only left with RPGs, because only they can be about geeky-nerdy fantasy worlds and treat them as if they were real, and not some lame simile for some lame beaten path in navel gazing and emo-tourism.

Quite simply - if you're playing D&D 3.x for the realism I think we're in fundamentally different conceptual universes.

-O

This line of argumentation leads to ridicolousness.

Why not making a +5 STR a per day ability?
People get stronger when desperate, no?
Why not that?

Quote from: SettembriniThis line of argumentation leads to ridicolousness.

Why not making a +5 STR a per day ability?
People get stronger when desperate, no?
Why not that?

Because they've settled on hit points instead?

Quote from: SettembriniThis line of argumentation leads to ridicolousness.

Why not making a +5 STR a per day ability?
People get stronger when desperate, no?
Why not that?

...okay?  You can go ahead and make that a rule in your game, too.

-O

:rolleyes:

This really is pointless.

Quote from: Settembrini:rolleyes:

This really is pointless.

It would certainly appear so.

To be honest, I just can't see the point of 'second wind'. I suppose it can add a bit of drama, but my immediate gut reaction is that its just a bit of munchkinism.

Maybe I skimmed the article too fast... Do bad guys all get second wind too?

Quote from: HaffrungWhen I see people saying they want their gaming to be like wuxia or Buffy, it sounds to me like someone who wants their architecture to be like dance.

Now that you mention it: Dancing about architecture - one of the most beautiful movies I ever watched.
(And it has Sean Connery, Gena Rowlands, Gillian Anderson, Jay Mohr, Dennis Quaid, Ellyn Burstyn, Madeleine Stowe, Ryan Phillipe, and Angelina Jolie in it.)
But it's no gaming material, I fear.

Quote from: SettembriniWhen I was even younger, I gobbled up a lot of adventure novels, like the EU Star Wars stuff. They had a great escapist value to me, so the artificialities didn´t come up at the time. The moment they became obvious to me, I dropped reading stuff like that.

So, when I want an escapist fix nowadays, I´m only left with RPGs, because only they can be about geeky-nerdy fantasy worlds and treat them as if they were real, and not some lame simile for some lame beaten path in navel gazing and emo-tourism.

OK, I think you might have to give me some names for books and authors you enjoy (perhaps in PM if you don't want to do it on the thread), because you've just confused me more. I find that a lot of the lamest elements in the EU Star Wars material crop up when people start taking that geeky-nerdy science fantasy setting and treat it as if it's real - like when Lucas came up with midichlorians as an explanation for the Force.

Quote from: DrewAlso, if anyone here has ever seen a boxer or martial artist come back and win a fight after losing a few rounds, or watched a runner on the edge of exhaustion push through "the wall" then you'll know exactly what second wind is about. And I'm not talking Rocky Balboa but real, observable instances of this sort of thing happening.

That's the thing which is really baffling about Sett's reaction, to me: it's not as if adrenaline rushes aren't a real, empirically observable phenomenon. And yet he treats it as if it's some horrible cliche of fiction which has absolutely no parallels in real life.

Sett, you might be the house Prussian, but to me you may as well come from the Moon. I really don't understand where you're coming from most of the time, and I'm pretty sure it's not just the language barrier.

Warthur,
your haphazard patchwork collection of contradictory lines of argumentation and interpretation make communication impossible.

I´ll try though: Since when did D&D model hormones? Why only adrenaline?
Why after being down to 1/2 HP? Why once per day?
Why do I heal damage instead of gaining a short term rage, like a Barbarian for example?

What has D&D got to do with reality?
Why is this part of "reality" suddenly important, but not for the last 30 years?
Why do you defend a concept that is "totally reasonable" but nobody thought of it before?
Will you introduce a secodn wind in all your RPGs?
It´s so totally based on reality after all.

I can again only shake my head.