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Another 4e dealbreaker: second wind

Started by Settembrini, September 02, 2007, 05:26:53 AM

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ColonelHardisson

#30
September 02, 2007, 01:54:34 PM
Quote from: SettembriniYeah, that must be it...:rolleyes:

So, I voiced my concern, all arguments to counter them reinforced my concerns, AGAIN.

Have nice thread.

I believe your arguments are hypocritical, as obryn points out. I guess that means you have to take your ball and go home.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

Settembrini

#31
September 02, 2007, 01:55:47 PM
Fuck you colonel, what is INSERT:hypocritical about not liking the SWSE second wind rule?
Can you explain me the hypocriticalness of that?

That´s idiotic argumentation.

Alas succesful in keeping me posting.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

ColonelHardisson

#32
September 02, 2007, 01:57:56 PM
Quote from: SettembriniEDIT: The Fuck? Hitpoints are dramatic devices? Which novel? Which movie? Your categories are all in shambles, your tastes are not convincing or inspiring.

Explain how they are any less dramatic devices than a mechanic that is triggered by certain conditions, such as "second wind" seems to be. WIth hit points, getting hit with a sword doesn't mean a big gaping wound and lots of blood; it just mean a reduction of, I don't know, coolness or something, until the PC drops dead in a pristine state, with all his equipment clean and intact. Hmm. Sounds like a comic book to me.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

ColonelHardisson

#33
September 02, 2007, 01:59:23 PM
Quote from: SettembriniFuck you colonel, what is INSERT:hypocritical about not liking the SWSE second wind rule?
Can you explain me the hypocriticalness of that?

That´s idiotic argumentation.

Alas succesful in keeping me posting.

It's hypocritical because, as obryn points out, "second wind" - whatever it is - is just as much a "dramatic device" as stuff you claim to like, such as hit points. Your arguments are glaringly inconsistent.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

Settembrini

#34
September 02, 2007, 02:00:06 PM
Hitpoints are abstractions.
abstraction =! dramatic device.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Drew

#35
September 02, 2007, 02:00:56 PM
Yeah, I too want something more realistic, like Cure Light Wounds or potions of healing. All this 'second wind' crap stinks of non-reliance on magic to me...

*Cough*

Actually I quite like the idea. It reminds me a little of Reserve Points in Iron Heroes. Anything that allows my character to grit his teeth and come back fighting after suffering a serious wound is good by me. Very flavourful. Very in-genre.
 

ColonelHardisson

#36
September 02, 2007, 02:03:14 PM
Quote from: SettembriniHitpoints are abstractions.
abstraction =! dramatic device.

Since everything in a game is an abstraction, that argument doesn't hold much water.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

ColonelHardisson

#37
September 02, 2007, 02:06:22 PM
Quote from: DrewYeah, I too want something more realistic, like Cure Light Wounds or potions of healing. All this 'second wind' crap stinks of non-reliance on magic to me...

*Cough*

Actually I quite like the idea. It reminds me a little of Reserve Points in Iron Heroes. Anything that allows my character to grit his teeth and come back fighting after suffering a serious wound is good by me. Very flavourful. Very in-genre.

Yes, reserve points like in Iron Heroes or in Unearthed Arcana are very much akin in spirit to this "second wind," if not in the specific way they are handled. At least, they are according to what we can glean from the article about "second wind," which is, admittedly, not much at all.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

Settembrini

#38
September 02, 2007, 02:06:47 PM
I´m amazed you aren´t seeing this. And the difference.

Well, well, have fun with your game then.

I can´t if it has this moronic second wind in it, at least if it´s like it is in SWSE.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Settembrini

#39
September 02, 2007, 02:08:23 PM
QuoteYeah, I too want something more realistic, like Cure Light Wounds or potions of healing. All this 'second wind' crap stinks of non-reliance on magic to me...
What has this to do with realism?
CLW is CLW.
And hurt people have been hurt people.
But now they are hurt until they "think about loved ones", and are better again. SUCKAGE ALERT!
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

ColonelHardisson

#40
September 02, 2007, 02:09:28 PM
Quote from: SettembriniI´m amazed you aren´t seeing this. And the difference.

Well, well, have fun with your game then.

I can´t if it has this moronic second wind in it, at least if it´s like it is in SWSE.

Y'know, to be serious just a moment, I'm amazed you don't see what I'm seeing. I mean, fine, you don't like it, but it certainly doesn't seem like any more of a dramatic device than any number of other tried-and-true RPG mechanics. What about the barbarian's "rage" ability? Isn't that a dramatic device?
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

Settembrini

#41
September 02, 2007, 02:13:10 PM
No, he´s a Brabarian. Barbarians can do stuff. This is not a dramatic device.
It´s because he´s a barbarian.

A Barbarian is a Barbarian.

Man, I´m not raging against the rules balance-wise or gameplay wise (I don´t know them). It´s about the suspension of disbelief, and it´s about taste.

I mean, everbyody must have a point where it´s too much for them. This is mine. Which is yours?

Fly ability for all characters?
Would you defend that too?
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

ColonelHardisson

#42
September 02, 2007, 02:15:03 PM
Quote from: SettembriniWhat has this to do with realism?
CLW is CLW.
And hurt people have been hurt people.
But now they are hurt until they "think about loved ones", and are better again. SUCKAGE ALERT!

Where is this "second wind" triggered by "think about loved ones"? Cite the source, please. It seems it is either triggered by (or can be used after) the loss of more than half of one's hit points - an hit points are an abstraction, and as you said, abstractions=/=dramatic devices.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

ColonelHardisson

#43
September 02, 2007, 02:15:50 PM
Quote from: SettembriniNo, he´s a Brabarian. Barbarians can do stuff. This is not a dramatic device.
It´s because he´s a barbarian.

A Barbarian is a Barbarian.


So he thinks about being a barbarian and rages? LAME.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

Settembrini

#44
September 02, 2007, 02:17:19 PM
How about Pokemounts?
Do you defend those?

It´s about taste, man, do you have any?

What is needed to spoil your D&D?

Two handed weapon fighting for free and everyone?
Spellcasting for everyone?

Which is your limit?

Name it!
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity
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